Wainwright complete game!

Even before this season began, I considered Wainwright our #1 starter.

Wainwright shows he deserves the title of our "ace" as he pitches a
complete game!

The best defense against a bad bullpen is a complete game.

Because he's an excellent hitter, Wainwright should have a better
chance of a complete game than a typically-hitting pitcher, as there's
little to no incentive to pinch-hit for him.

In yesterday's radio broadcast, Shannon said some really good pitchers
give up a lot of home runs, but they tend to do so with the bases
empty, Bob Gibson being the best example.

x-no-archive: yes

"Terry Lomax" <Lomax47@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d909e0e8-c52a-4254-8485-b83d004adf17@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Even before this season began, I considered Wainwright our #1 starter.
>
> Wainwright shows he deserves the title of our "ace" as he pitches a
> complete game!
>
> The best defense against a bad bullpen is a complete game.
>
> Because he's an excellent hitter, Wainwright should have a better
> chance of a complete game than a typically-hitting pitcher, as there's
> little to no incentive to pinch-hit for him.
>
> In yesterday's radio broadcast, Shannon said some really good pitchers
> give up a lot of home runs, but they tend to do so with the bases
> empty, Bob Gibson being the best example.

Robin Roberts is a better example.
Won 286 games despite giving up a staggering 505 HRs; the
record.
Compare Roberts with Gibson, and Don Drysdale:


Roberts: 4,688.2 IP (.255 O-Ave) 505 HR 902 W 45 HBP 17,637 TBF
286-245 (.539) 3.41 ERA 1.17 WHIP

Drysdale: 3,432.0 IP (.239 O-Ave) 280 HR 855 W 154 HBP 14,097 TBF
209-166 (.557) 2.95 ERA 1.15 WHIP

Gibson: 3,884.1 IP (.228 O-Ave) 257 HR 1,336 W 102 HBP 16,068 TBF
251-174 (.591) 2.92 ERA 1.19 WHIP

Notice Gibson hit fewer batters than Drysdale.
He has that reputation, but D.D. hit 50% more batters while facing 1,970
(12%) *fewer* batters.


If Gibson had only quit after the 1974 season instead of pitching in his
disasterous 1975 season, he would have had this much better overall career
record:

Gibson: 3,775.1 IP (.223 O-Ave) 247 HR 1,274 W 98 HBP 15,568 TBF
248-164 (.602) 2.86 ERA 1.17 WHIP


Gibson ('75) 109.0 IP (.287 O-Ave) 10 HR 62 W 4 HBP 499 TBF
3-10 (.231) 5.04 ERA 1.67 WHIP

"Terry Lomax" <Lomax47@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d909e0e8-c52a-4254-8485-b83d004adf17@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Even before this season began, I considered Wainwright our #1 starter.
>
> Wainwright shows he deserves the title of our "ace" as he pitches a
> complete game!
>
> The best defense against a bad bullpen is a complete game.

Except, did that 125 pitch outing mean that Wainwright is headed for a DL
trip in the near future, and possibly a shortened career?

Evidence suggests that's a good possiblity. At the very least, he's sure to
have a dead arm come Sept

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:12:20 -0500, "Jeremy Reaban"
<jeremy_reaban@yahoo.com> gave us:
>"Terry Lomax" <Lomax47@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:d909e0e8-c52a-4254-8485-b83d004adf17@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

>> Even before this season began, I considered Wainwright our #1 starter.

>> Wainwright shows he deserves the title of our "ace" as he pitches a
>> complete game!

>> The best defense against a bad bullpen is a complete game.

>Except, did that 125 pitch outing mean that Wainwright is headed for a DL
>trip in the near future, and possibly a shortened career?

>Evidence suggests that's a good possiblity. At the very least, he's sure to
>have a dead arm come Sept

Not necessarily. I'm not a fan of high pitch counts for young arms,
either, but the problem with them is their exponential nature. If
Wainwright goes out and throws 90 to 100 pitches next time, the damage
will be much less likely. It's consistent abuse of a pitcher's arm
that causes him to break down.

--
Lance

"Some of the things I've seen here I haven't seen anywhere else I've
managed."
-- Lou Piniella articulates what it means to be initiated into Cubdom
6/2/07


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"Jeremy Reaban" <jeremy_reaban@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fv5ehp021ub@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Terry Lomax" <Lomax47@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d909e0e8-c52a-4254-8485-b83d004adf17@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> Even before this season began, I considered Wainwright our #1 starter.
>>
>> Wainwright shows he deserves the title of our "ace" as he pitches a
>> complete game!
>>
>> The best defense against a bad bullpen is a complete game.
>
> Except, did that 125 pitch outing mean that Wainwright is headed for a DL
> trip in the near future, and possibly a shortened career?

Not necessarily! He's a big boy now. He can do that occasionally.

> Evidence suggests that's a good possiblity. At the very least, he's sure
> to have a dead arm come Sept

Not necessarily.
He might get knocked out of the box early in his next 2 starts,
throwing only 30 pitches each time, knocking down his pitch-count average.
<g>

Lance Freezeland wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:12:20 -0500, "Jeremy Reaban"
> <jeremy_reaban@yahoo.com> gave us:
>> "Terry Lomax" <Lomax47@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:d909e0e8-c52a-4254-8485-b83d004adf17@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>> Even before this season began, I considered Wainwright our #1 starter.
>
>>> Wainwright shows he deserves the title of our "ace" as he pitches a
>>> complete game!
>
>>> The best defense against a bad bullpen is a complete game.
>
>> Except, did that 125 pitch outing mean that Wainwright is headed for a DL
>> trip in the near future, and possibly a shortened career?
>
>> Evidence suggests that's a good possiblity. At the very least, he's sure to
>> have a dead arm come Sept
>
> Not necessarily. I'm not a fan of high pitch counts for young arms,
> either, but the problem with them is their exponential nature. If
> Wainwright goes out and throws 90 to 100 pitches next time, the damage
> will be much less likely. It's consistent abuse of a pitcher's arm
> that causes him to break down.
>

Do we have pitch counts for fellows from the late 60's?

Marichal, Gibson, Koufax, Drysdale all seemed to go long in games,
pitching 9 or 10 innings consistently the entire season.

Perhaps there was something to that 15 inch mound that allowed
much better velocity?

Paul

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:30:32 -0400, Atlanta Cardfan <user@example.net>
gave us:
>Lance Freezeland wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:12:20 -0500, "Jeremy Reaban"
>> <jeremy_reaban@yahoo.com> gave us:
>>> "Terry Lomax" <Lomax47@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d909e0e8-c52a-4254-8485-b83d004adf17@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

>>>> Even before this season began, I considered Wainwright our #1 starter.

>>>> Wainwright shows he deserves the title of our "ace" as he pitches a
>>>> complete game!

>>>> The best defense against a bad bullpen is a complete game.

>>> Except, did that 125 pitch outing mean that Wainwright is headed for a DL
>>> trip in the near future, and possibly a shortened career?

>>> Evidence suggests that's a good possiblity. At the very least, he's sure to
>>> have a dead arm come Sept

>> Not necessarily. I'm not a fan of high pitch counts for young arms,
>> either, but the problem with them is their exponential nature. If
>> Wainwright goes out and throws 90 to 100 pitches next time, the damage
>> will be much less likely. It's consistent abuse of a pitcher's arm
>> that causes him to break down.

>Do we have pitch counts for fellows from the late 60's?

>Marichal, Gibson, Koufax, Drysdale all seemed to go long in games,
>pitching 9 or 10 innings consistently the entire season.

>Perhaps there was something to that 15 inch mound that allowed
>much better velocity?

Well, first let's remember that Bob Gibson and Juan Marichal weren't
your average pitchers. Whenever I hear someone saying that Gibson or
Seaver or Nolan Ryan did X, I try to point out that you're talking
here about physical freaks. And remember also that Sandy Koufax
retired at age 30 with a bad arm. Drysdale's last full season was 31.

You're correct that they did the things that you note, but they paid
the price therefor.

--
Lance

"There are three-hundred thousand sportswriters
and they're all against me. Every one of them."
-- Joaquin Andujar


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