Game 13: The A's, aka Cliff Lee's whores

I just had to laugh.

You KNEW this was coming, right?

Whip out the clichés: "You can't win 'em all", "Two out of three ain't
bad", etc. None of them work for today.

There is no reason the A's should have lost this game today, their
second loss in a week, to one of the worst starting pitchers in the
American League.

The A's went 3-for-29 today, with no walks and eight Ks. They pretty
much stunk. Sad thing is that Chad Gaudin actually pitched decently
enough to keep his team in the game, but the A's couldn't get anything
going against Cliff Lee -- a guy who had a 6.29 ERA last year.

Heck, Lee's 2-0 in 2008, with two dominating wins over the A's in the
last week. Pathetics? Indeed. They had TWO hits in eight innings.

I don't mind losing to C.C. Sabathia; I wouldn't even mind losing to
Fausto Carmona or whatever his name is. But losing two games to Cliff
Lee is just sad. He's now 4-1 in his career against the A's.

Go figure.

Is this a game the A's should have won? Sure, in theory. But in
reality, no -- they never had a chance today, as much as it pains me
to write that.

A's Record: 8-5
A's Should-Be Record: 9-4

On Apr 13, 1:59 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The A's went 3-for-29 today, with no walks and eight Ks. They pretty
> much stunk. Sad thing is that Chad Gaudin actually pitched decently
> enough to keep his team in the game, but the A's couldn't get anything
> going against Cliff Lee -- a guy who had a 6.29 ERA last year.

Lee is quite talented. He didn't pitch very much last year due to
some serious injuries. He's obviously healed up nicely. Both games
against the A's he repeatedly dropped pitch after pitch on the
corners. Inside, outside, mix in the curve, slider and change, always
on the black, never in the hitting zone, yet never walking anyone...
The guy was just filthy, both starts.

On Apr 13, 5:46 pm, thisplanetsux <thisplanet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 1:59 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The A's went 3-for-29 today, with no walks and eight Ks. They pretty
> > much stunk. Sad thing is that Chad Gaudin actually pitched decently
> > enough to keep his team in the game, but the A's couldn't get anything
> > going against Cliff Lee -- a guy who had a 6.29 ERA last year.
>
> Lee is quite talented. He didn't pitch very much last year due to
> some serious injuries. He's obviously healed up nicely. Both games
> against the A's he repeatedly dropped pitch after pitch on the
> corners. Inside, outside, mix in the curve, slider and change, always
> on the black, never in the hitting zone, yet never walking anyone...
> The guy was just filthy, both starts.

I disagree with your assessment of his talent level, etc.

His career 4.50+ ERA tells me all I need to know about his stuff, as
does the fact he's given up more hits than IP in his career, while
averaging 3.0 BB per nine innings without dominating strikeout numbers
(2.2:1 ratio). He's a mediocre lefty who has given up 105 HRs in only
750 career innings (i.e., 30+ per full season), has only three
complete games in his career and has NEVER thrown a shutout. Batters
have hit .262 against him over his career with a .324 OBP and a .434
SLG.

Sure, every pitcher gets it going every once in awhile, but Lee? Has
had way too much success against the A's considering his career
numbers. Remember that game in late May 2004 when he shut them down
for eight innings? In 2004, he went 13.1 innings against the A's,
giving ten hits and eight walks but only one run -- with 13 Ks. In
2005, he went six innings against the A's, giving up only two hits and
no runs, while walking three and striking out five. In 2006, the A's
finally raked him as they should: 5.2 innings, four hits, five walks,
two HRs, only two Ks -- for five runs. Same with 2007: 13 IP, 14 H, 5
BB, 8 Ks, 3 HRs, 7 R.

For him to go 14.2 innings and give up only six hits and one walk
against the A's this year, while striking out 12 and not surrendering
a HR, is very out of line with his career numbers. He's 29, and while
he may be on his way to a breakout season, I doubt it.

Adding it up, Lee's pitched 52.2 innings against the A's, giving up 36
hits, 14 runs, 5 HRs, 22 walks, 40 Ks. His career WHIP is 1.37 or so,
but against the A's? It's a mere 1.10 ... His career ERA is over 4.50,
but against the A's, it's 2.39. Here's a guy who gets shelled by the
rest of the league, but for some reason, he owns the A's.

Again, blind squirrels find acorns, but Lee seems to get too many of
nuts for the winter when he faces the A's.

On Apr 14, 4:26 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 13, 5:46 pm, thisplanetsux <thisplanet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 13, 1:59 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > The A's went 3-for-29 today, with no walks and eight Ks. They pretty
> > > much stunk. Sad thing is that Chad Gaudin actually pitched decently
> > > enough to keep his team in the game, but the A's couldn't get anything
> > > going against Cliff Lee -- a guy who had a 6.29 ERA last year.
>
> > Lee is quite talented. He didn't pitch very much last year due to
> > some serious injuries. He's obviously healed up nicely. Both games
> > against the A's he repeatedly dropped pitch after pitch on the
> > corners. Inside, outside, mix in the curve, slider and change, always
> > on the black, never in the hitting zone, yet never walking anyone...
> > The guy was just filthy, both starts.
>
> I disagree with your assessment of his talent level, etc.
>
> His career 4.50+ ERA tells me all I need to know about his stuff, as
> does the fact he's given up more hits than IP in his career, while
> averaging 3.0 BB per nine innings without dominating strikeout numbers
> (2.2:1 ratio). He's a mediocre lefty who has given up 105 HRs in only
> 750 career innings (i.e., 30+ per full season), has only three
> complete games in his career and has NEVER thrown a shutout. Batters
> have hit .262 against him over his career with a .324 OBP and a .434
> SLG.

We're not trying to evaluate his hall-of-fame credentials, but
understand how it is the A's have not managed to hit well against him
in two starts this year. His career ER total and walk and HR ratios
ballooned off the injury-plagued '07 season, so you shouldn't rely too
heavily on career stats to gauge his ability at this time. If he
comes back and has a full and more typical season, his career stats
will improve a fair amount.

Now, if you simply watched the two games he's pitched against Oakland
this year, you should have noticed that he's got tremendous command of
several different pitches, keeps the ball down, and works very fast to
keep hitters off-balance. In other words, when he's on, he's sort of
a left-handed version of Joe Blanton. But even if you are unable to
discern that, you could cut to the chase and straight up compare the
season he had in '05 for Cleveland at age 26, to the season Blanton
had last year for Oakland at age 26. That's a decently objective
measure of his true _ability_ and expected performance, when healthy,
and it shows that he stacks up well to Blanton. The only question
might be, "Is he healthy?" Man, he sure looks healthy!

On Apr 15, 4:18 am, thisplanetsux <thisplanet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 4:26 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 13, 5:46 pm, thisplanetsux <thisplanet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 13, 1:59 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > The A's went 3-for-29 today, with no walks and eight Ks. They pretty
> > > > much stunk. Sad thing is that Chad Gaudin actually pitched decently
> > > > enough to keep his team in the game, but the A's couldn't get anything
> > > > going against Cliff Lee -- a guy who had a 6.29 ERA last year.
>
> > > Lee is quite talented. He didn't pitch very much last year due to
> > > some serious injuries. He's obviously healed up nicely. Both games
> > > against the A's he repeatedly dropped pitch after pitch on the
> > > corners. Inside, outside, mix in the curve, slider and change, always
> > > on the black, never in the hitting zone, yet never walking anyone...
> > > The guy was just filthy, both starts.
>
> > I disagree with your assessment of his talent level, etc.
>
> > His career 4.50+ ERA tells me all I need to know about his stuff, as
> > does the fact he's given up more hits than IP in his career, while
> > averaging 3.0 BB per nine innings without dominating strikeout numbers
> > (2.2:1 ratio). He's a mediocre lefty who has given up 105 HRs in only
> > 750 career innings (i.e., 30+ per full season), has only three
> > complete games in his career and has NEVER thrown a shutout. Batters
> > have hit .262 against him over his career with a .324 OBP and a .434
> > SLG.
>
> We're not trying to evaluate his hall-of-fame credentials, but
> understand how it is the A's have not managed to hit well against him
> in two starts this year. His career ER total and walk and HR ratios
> ballooned off the injury-plagued '07 season, so you shouldn't rely too
> heavily on career stats to gauge his ability at this time. If he
> comes back and has a full and more typical season, his career stats
> will improve a fair amount.
>
> Now, if you simply watched the two games he's pitched against Oakland
> this year, you should have noticed that he's got tremendous command of
> several different pitches, keeps the ball down, and works very fast to
> keep hitters off-balance. In other words, when he's on, he's sort of
> a left-handed version of Joe Blanton. But even if you are unable to
> discern that, you could cut to the chase and straight up compare the
> season he had in '05 for Cleveland at age 26, to the season Blanton
> had last year for Oakland at age 26. That's a decently objective
> measure of his true _ability_ and expected performance, when healthy,
> and it shows that he stacks up well to Blanton. The only question
> might be, "Is he healthy?" Man, he sure looks healthy!

I'm still not buying it.

But I will agree to disagree here.

On Apr 14, 4:26 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Apr 13, 5:46 pm, thisplanetsux <thisplanet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 13, 1:59 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > The A's went 3-for-29 today, with no walks and eight Ks. They pretty
> > > much stunk. Sad thing is that Chad Gaudin actually pitched decently
> > > enough to keep his team in the game, but the A's couldn't get anything
> > > going against Cliff Lee -- a guy who had a 6.29 ERA last year.
>
> > Lee is quite talented. He didn't pitch very much last year due to
> > some serious injuries. He's obviously healed up nicely. Both games
> > against the A's he repeatedly dropped pitch after pitch on the
> > corners. Inside, outside, mix in the curve, slider and change, always
> > on the black, never in the hitting zone, yet never walking anyone...
> > The guy was just filthy, both starts.
>
> I disagree with your assessment of his talent level, etc.
>
> His career 4.50+ ERA tells me all I need to know about his stuff, as
> does the fact he's given up more hits than IP in his career, while
> averaging 3.0 BB per nine innings without dominating strikeout numbers
> (2.2:1 ratio). He's a mediocre lefty who has given up 105 HRs in only
> 750 career innings (i.e., 30+ per full season), has only three
> complete games in his career and has NEVER thrown a shutout.

BTW Kardex, this last statement of yours is no longer true. Lee just
manhandled the Royals tonight, tossing a complete game 3 hit shutout
with no walks and 9 strikeouts.

> thisplanetsux wrote:
> > I disagree with your assessment of his talent level, etc.
> >
> > His career 4.50+ ERA tells me all I need to know about his stuff, as
> > does the fact he's given up more hits than IP in his career, while
> > averaging 3.0 BB per nine innings without dominating strikeout
> > numbers (2.2:1 ratio). He's a mediocre lefty who has given up 105
> > HRs in only 750 career innings (i.e., 30+ per full season), has
> > only three complete games in his career and has NEVER thrown a
> > shutout.
>
> BTW Kardex, this last statement of yours is no longer true. Lee just
> manhandled the Royals tonight, tossing a complete game 3 hit shutout
> with no walks and 9 strikeouts.

God forbid that a player evolve and improve.

On Apr 25, 12:47 am, The Dave© <n...@no.com> wrote:
> > thisplanetsux wrote:
> > > I disagree with your assessment of his talent level, etc.
>
> > > His career 4.50+ ERA tells me all I need to know about his stuff, as
> > > does the fact he's given up more hits than IP in his career, while
> > > averaging 3.0 BB per nine innings without dominating strikeout
> > > numbers (2.2:1 ratio). He's a mediocre lefty who has given up 105
> > > HRs in only 750 career innings (i.e., 30+ per full season), has
> > > only three complete games in his career and has NEVER thrown a
> > > shutout.
>
> > BTW Kardex, this last statement of yours is no longer true. Lee just
> > manhandled the Royals tonight, tossing a complete game 3 hit shutout
> > with no walks and 9 strikeouts.
>
> God forbid that a player evolve and improve.

With pitchers it's almost always more a case of just getting healthy,
though adapting/evolving does come into play. Even guys that are
steady and solid over a long period are usually pitching at below 100%
due to some nagging injury(s), but they simply pitch through it and
deliver good innings at 95% or whatever. I don't think Tim Hudson has
ever really been a 100% healthy guy. Most other pitchers have had
only short spans, no more than a year or two tops, where they're
completely pain free and hitting on all cylinders.

But the reason this all came up was to establish that the A's did not
just lie down and stink the joint up when facing Lee. I think if you
look at the current AL pitching leader boards, there is evidence to
suggest the A's, due to the luck of scheduling, have faced the
toughest AL pitching so far this year, and are quite possibly an even
better hitting club than we've seen. They've faced Lee twice, plus
Greinke, plus King Felix, plus Bannister... Those guys are #1, #2, #3
and #6 in ERA in the AL (with Eveland at #4). They've also face Dice
K twice, plus Carmona, plus Silva, plus Marcum, who are all sub-3.50
ERA guys in the top-20 of the AL. And yet the A's are scoring runs
and winning games.

On Apr 25, 1:22 am, thisplanetsux <thisplanet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 4:26 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 13, 5:46 pm, thisplanetsux <thisplanet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 13, 1:59 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > The A's went 3-for-29 today, with no walks and eight Ks. They pretty
> > > > much stunk. Sad thing is that Chad Gaudin actually pitched decently
> > > > enough to keep his team in the game, but the A's couldn't get anything
> > > > going against Cliff Lee -- a guy who had a 6.29 ERA last year.
>
> > > Lee is quite talented. He didn't pitch very much last year due to
> > > some serious injuries. He's obviously healed up nicely. Both games
> > > against the A's he repeatedly dropped pitch after pitch on the
> > > corners. Inside, outside, mix in the curve, slider and change, always
> > > on the black, never in the hitting zone, yet never walking anyone...
> > > The guy was just filthy, both starts.
>
> > I disagree with your assessment of his talent level, etc.
>
> > His career 4.50+ ERA tells me all I need to know about his stuff, as
> > does the fact he's given up more hits than IP in his career, while
> > averaging 3.0 BB per nine innings without dominating strikeout numbers
> > (2.2:1 ratio). He's a mediocre lefty who has given up 105 HRs in only
> > 750 career innings (i.e., 30+ per full season), has only three
> > complete games in his career and has NEVER thrown a shutout.
>
> BTW Kardex, this last statement of yours is no longer true. Lee just
> manhandled the Royals tonight, tossing a complete game 3 hit shutout
> with no walks and 9 strikeouts.

Well, hey, maybe the Giants can sign him to an $18M/yr. contract.

Maybe Clifton Phifer will turn into Sandy Koufax after all, but I'm
not betting on it.