Same ol' crappy Losman. One long pass for a td & 95 sacks &
fumbles!!!

TOG

At 4-1 and in first place in the AFCE? Nothing is on hold here.
A disappointing loss for sure, but one that might build some character.
Sometimes we forget that the Bills are one of the youngest teams in the
NFL. This start of the year success is just the beginning.

<Bills will win the AFCE!>

On Oct 5, 7:59 pm, Bender <l...@sea.com> wrote:
>
>
> <Bills will win the AFCE!>

Care to wager?

The old geezer <JYOB@aol.com> wrote in news:7e658816-29e7-433e-b52d-
0ecde799d466@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> Same ol' crappy Losman. One long pass for a td & 95 sacks &
> fumbles!!!
>
> TOG

Yeah, Losman lost the game today. Right.

MBD

On Oct 5, 7:36 pm, MBD <M...@MBD.com> wrote:
> The old geezer <J...@aol.com> wrote in news:7e658816-29e7-433e-b52d-
> 0ecde799d...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Same ol' crappy Losman.  One long pass for a td & 95 sacks &
> > fumbles!!!

He is always good for one bomb every few weeks.Then he does
nothing after that.

>
> > TOG
>
> Yeah, Losman lost the game today.  Right.
>

He played a big roll in the lose.He fumbled 3 times,had a INT
and was sacked 5 times.Yes the defense played bad but
JP gave us no shot at winning this game.When you fumble
the ball and throw INTs(in the other teams red zone)the defense
is going to look real bad against a good offense.Edwards I have
no doubt would have made this a much closer game.With all
the turnovers,we had 0% chance of winning this game.This is
why I wanted another back up QB.He still plays like a rookie.
Very shocking.

This cant all be blamed on JP though.JP fucked up a bunch
but no one else made a play to make up for it.One of the sacks
fuck head Peters just let his guy go right by him.The defense
could't get off the field.Keith Ellison has to be replaced!This
guy has not made one play in 5 weeks.The bye week is a good
time to put John DiGiorgio in there.The secondary was just ate
up.McGee has to get healthy fast!

Am I the only one that thinks the hit on Edwards was a illegal hit?
Looked like helmet to helmet contact to me.Should be a fine
on this hit IMO.


> MBD

Kountzeguy <jjtx81@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:34103fb6-4bc4-4c87-bc73-
3663f15dbd3b@j68g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> On Oct 5, 7:36 pm, MBD <M...@MBD.com> wrote:
>> The old geezer <J...@aol.com> wrote in news:7e658816-29e7-433e-b52d-
>> 0ecde799d...@u46g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > Same ol' crappy Losman.  One long pass for a td & 95 sacks &
>> > fumbles!!!
>
> He is always good for one bomb every few weeks.Then he does
> nothing after that.
>
>>
>> > TOG
>>
>> Yeah, Losman lost the game today.  Right.
>>
>
> He played a big roll in the lose.He fumbled 3 times,had a INT
> and was sacked 5 times.Yes the defense played bad but
> JP gave us no shot at winning this game.When you fumble
> the ball and throw INTs(in the other teams red zone)the defense
> is going to look real bad against a good offense.Edwards I have
> no doubt would have made this a much closer game.With all
> the turnovers,we had 0% chance of winning this game.This is
> why I wanted another back up QB.He still plays like a rookie.
> Very shocking.
>
> This cant all be blamed on JP though.JP fucked up a bunch
> but no one else made a play to make up for it.One of the sacks
> fuck head Peters just let his guy go right by him.The defense
> could't get off the field.Keith Ellison has to be replaced!This
> guy has not made one play in 5 weeks.The bye week is a good
> time to put John DiGiorgio in there.The secondary was just ate
> up.McGee has to get healthy fast!
>
> Am I the only one that thinks the hit on Edwards was a illegal hit?
> Looked like helmet to helmet contact to me.Should be a fine
> on this hit IMO.

For starters, Losman fumbled once (and that could have been an incomplete
forward pass, but I didn't see the replay). The other "fumble" was on the
exchange to Lynch, which was more like a handoff to Antonio Smith, with the
penetration he got on Fowler (who sucks and better be benched over the
bye).

But after getting the Bills to 14-7, what does the defense do? Force a 3-
and-out? Nope, they give-up another TD. Then JP leads them down for
another TD, to cut it to 14-21, and the defense gives-up a FG drive before
teh half. So after halftime, the defense holds the Cards' offense and JP
leads a FG drive to make it 17-24. And AGAIN the defense gives-up a TD.
Then Royal fumbles, which leads to a Cards' FG. Then JP fumbles and a
Cards TD and game over.

So tell me again, how did JP lose the game for the Bills? His pass
protection was horrid (seeing as how it sacked him 5 times and Trent got
knocked out of the game), the running game was non-existant, the defense
was lousy, and even the ST's sucked, lining-up offsides on a FG that
allowed the Cards to extend the drive and score a TD. If anyone thinks
that Trent would have done any better, given the number of sacks he's
taken, not to mention his share of fumbles and INT's, they're fooling
themselves.

But look on the bright side. This was a non-conference game. The Bills
now have 2 weeks to rest and prepare for SD and the stretch run. Hopefully
they've identified areas that need improvement (like getting Fowler out of
the starting lineup, getting Hardy more time with the starters, and getting
Ellis some playing time because Schobel is running on fumes and Copeland
Bryan sucks). And they're 4-1. Things could be a lot worse.

MBD

On Oct 6, 6:01�pm, MBD <M...@MBD.com> wrote:
> But look on the bright side. �This was a non-conference game. �The Bills
> now have 2 weeks to rest and prepare for SD and the stretch run. �Hopefully
> they've identified areas that need improvement (like getting Fowler out of
> the starting lineup, getting Hardy more time with the starters, and getting
> Ellis some playing time because Schobel is running on fumes and Copeland
> Bryan sucks). �And they're 4-1. �Things could be a lot worse.
>
> MBD-

O.K. Everything you said wuz correct. But why is it, when Losman is
out there, it just seems like it's Curly Howard out there. Once J.P.
wuz at QB, the whole team, all of a sudden, seemed like a flat
tire.......

TOG

The old geezer <JYOB@aol.com> wrote in
news:d57f9b19-a71c-4410-ab4d-8ab9e664276e@q9g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> O.K. Everything you said wuz correct. But why is it, when Losman is
> out there, it just seems like it's Curly Howard out there. Once J.P.
> wuz at QB, the whole team, all of a sudden, seemed like a flat
> tire.......

The QB has no control over the defense. Maybe there was an emotional
component like "oh no, there goes Trent!" But the ideal response would
have been "Trent's down, we have to go out there and play harder!"

MBD

> For starters, Losman fumbled once (and that could have been an incomplete
> forward pass, but I didn't see the replay).  The other "fumble" was on the
> exchange to Lynch, which was more like a handoff to Antonio Smith, with the
> penetration he got on Fowler (who sucks and better be benched over the
> bye).  

He fumbled,stop making excuse for him.No doubt Fowler is on of the
worst centers in the NFL.I will give Fowler credit for that fumble.
The other is all on Losman.

>
> But after getting the Bills to 14-7, what does the defense do?  Force a3-
> and-out?  Nope, they give-up another TD.  Then JP leads them down for
> another TD, to cut it to 14-21, and the defense gives-up a FG drive before
> teh half.  So after halftime, the defense holds the Cards' offense and JP
> leads a FG drive to make it 17-24.  And AGAIN the defense gives-up a TD..  
> Then Royal fumbles, which leads to a Cards' FG.  Then JP fumbles and a
> Cards TD and game over.

He had two TDs and a FG drive against a team that game up 49
points the week before.He was sacked 5 times.

>
> So tell me again, how did JP lose the game for the Bills?  His pass
> protection was horrid (seeing as how it sacked him 5 times and Trent got
> knocked out of the game), the running game was non-existant, the defense
> was lousy, and even the ST's sucked, lining-up offsides on a FG that
> allowed the Cards to extend the drive and score a TD.  If anyone thinks
> that Trent would have done any better, given the number of sacks he's
> taken, not to mention his share of fumbles and INT's, they're fooling
> themselves.

I didn't say a JP loss the game.I said he gave us no chance to win.
As for as his sacks go.The stats tell the story.JP took double the
sacks
Edwards took behind the same Oline.Go look at the stats from last
year.
I blame Jason Peters for one sack on JP.Though even on this sack JP
could have stepped up in the pocket and got away.But it's been proven
he has no Pocket Presence.I have one reason to say Edwards would
have done better.HE IS A HELL OF A BETTER PLAYER THEN JP!!!!
Do you think JP is better then Edwards really?


>
> But look on the bright side.  This was a non-conference game.  The Bills
> now have 2 weeks to rest and prepare for SD and the stretch run.  Hopefully
> they've identified areas that need improvement (like getting Fowler out of
> the starting lineup, getting Hardy more time with the starters, and getting
> Ellis some playing time because Schobel is running on fumes and Copeland
> Bryan sucks).  And they're 4-1.  Things could be a lot worse.


Schobel has played well this season.I'm not sure what your talking
about.Fowler needs to be replaced and Keith Ellison.Mcgee needs
to get healthy.Trent Edwards needs to get healthy.A concussion
is not a good thing for QB.Can knock you out of the leauge fast.
He needs to get all the right concussion stuff(helment,mouthpiece).
If JP has to play any extended amout of time will be out of the race.





>
> MBD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> He fumbled,stop making excuse for him.No doubt Fowler is on of the
> worst centers in the NFL.I will give Fowler credit for that fumble.
> The other is all on Losman.

Fine, JP fumbled. We know the zebras have been beyond reproach this year,
especially when calling a fumble an incomplete forward pass and vice versa,
so I'll stop "making excuses."

When JP fumbled, the score was 34-17, and the scored a TD to make it 41-17.
Was it the fumble that lost the game for the Bills? The INT? I wouldn't
say it was, or at least any more than Royal's fumble the series before. Or
the fumble on the opening drive, courtesy of Fowler.

> He had two TDs and a FG drive against a team that game up 49
> points the week before.He was sacked 5 times.

So you expect the Cards to give-up 49 points every game? Do you think the
Bills with Trent would have score 49, or even 41, seeing as how they
couldn't score more than 31 against the Rams' pathetic defense?

> I didn't say a JP loss the game.I said he gave us no chance to win.
> As for as his sacks go.The stats tell the story.JP took double the
> sacks
> Edwards took behind the same Oline.Go look at the stats from last
> year.
> I blame Jason Peters for one sack on JP.Though even on this sack JP
> could have stepped up in the pocket and got away.But it's been proven
> he has no Pocket Presence.I have one reason to say Edwards would
> have done better.HE IS A HELL OF A BETTER PLAYER THEN JP!!!!
> Do you think JP is better then Edwards really?

Last year? Forget last year. Last *week* Trent got sacked 4 times by the
Rams' pathetic defense (if you want to talk about a defense that gives up
49 PPG...).

The bottom line is that the defense didn't give the Bills the chance to
win, not JP. They couldn't stop the slant to save their lives, gave up a
long TD run by a rookie averaging 2.5 YPC, and couldn't sack Warner or
force a single turnover. Special teams weren't much help either, with
Jenkins' off-sides on the FG try allowing the Cards to extend their drive
and ultimately score a TD. And the running game was non-existent.

> Schobel has played well this season.I'm not sure what your talking
> about.Fowler needs to be replaced and Keith Ellison.Mcgee needs
> to get healthy.Trent Edwards needs to get healthy.A concussion
> is not a good thing for QB.Can knock you out of the leauge fast.
> He needs to get all the right concussion stuff(helment,mouthpiece).
> If JP has to play any extended amout of time will be out of the race.

Schobel's been the invisible man. With Stroud and Williams occupying
blockers, he should be a holy terror. But on the season, he has 1 sack and
4 QB hurries. That's unacceptable for a guy getting $8M a year. He got
schooled by former Bills' LT Mike Gandy.

As for Ellison, he's not a starter, but he was no worse than the other LB's
last weekend. I agree that McGee has to get healthy, as does Parrish. But
the Bills will only go as far as the defense takes them.

MBD

MBD <MBD@MBD.com> wrote in news:Xns9B30979679C9Fabc@207.115.33.102:

> So you expect the Cards to give-up 49 points every game? Do you think
> the Bills with Trent would have score 49, or even 41, seeing as how
> they couldn't score more than 31 against the Rams' pathetic defense?

Let me correct the above. Trent led the Bills' offense to 24 points
against the Rams. The other TD was scored by Greer.

MBD

> Fine, JP fumbled.  We know the zebras have been beyond reproach this year,
> especially when calling a fumble an incomplete forward pass and vice versa,
> so I'll stop "making excuses."


Zebras sounds like a excuse to me.


>
> When JP fumbled, the score was 34-17, and the scored a TD to make it 41-17.  
> Was it the fumble that lost the game for the Bills?  The INT?  I wouldn't
> say it was, or at least any more than Royal's fumble the series before.  Or
> the fumble on the opening drive, courtesy of Fowler.

In every game Trent Edwards played his best ball in the 4th.He won a
game against Oakland we should have never won.He brought the team
back,the defense gave up a long TD right after.He brought the team
back down for a TD and a FG to win the game.Not even taken into
mind what he did in the Jags game.Losman has never did anything
like this is his entire career.Edwards scored 17 points in the 4th
quater of the Raiders game right?How many points were we down
when JP got the ball to start the 4th quater of the Cards game?17
points!So we still had some chance to win this game.The he fumbled
and then he threw a INT.He didn't lose the game no.But he did
nothing in the entire 2nd half to give us a shot to win it.







>
> > He had two TDs and a FG drive against a team that game up 49
> > points the week before.He was sacked 5 times.
>
> So you expect the Cards to give-up 49 points every game?  Do you think the
> Bills with Trent would have score 49, or even 41, seeing as how they
> couldn't score more than 31 against the Rams' pathetic defense?

I think Edwards would have got us in the 30's truely.Edwards
gets better as the game goes along.If he is sacked a bunch or
throws a INT it doesn't stop him.JP is rattled very easy.Edwards
isn't.


> Last year?  Forget last year.  Last *week* Trent got sacked 4 times by the
> Rams' pathetic defense (if you want to talk about a defense that gives up
> 49 PPG...).


No lets not forget last year.Both played 8 games.Both behind the same
line and JP took 2 times the sacks.We won the Rams game in a blow
out.Because Edwards is not rattled by sacks.His Oline didn't play
great
but he didn't use that as a excuse to lose the game.He just went on
to make plays.Losman crumbles when the heat gets going.

>
> The bottom line is that the defense didn't give the Bills the chance to
> win, not JP.  They couldn't stop the slant to save their lives, gave upa
> long TD run by a rookie averaging 2.5 YPC, and couldn't sack Warner or
> force a single turnover.  Special teams weren't much help either, with
> Jenkins' off-sides on the FG try allowing the Cards to extend their drive
> and ultimately score a TD.  And the running game was non-existent.


Both JP and the defense played bad.Both have the same amount
of guilt in the lose of this game.This defense has been average all
year so far.The running game as been average all year.We were
4-0 though with Edwards in there.

>
> > Schobel has played well this season.I'm not sure what your talking
> > about.Fowler needs to be replaced and Keith Ellison.Mcgee needs
> > to get healthy.Trent Edwards needs to get healthy.A concussion
> > is not a good thing for QB.Can knock you out of the leauge fast.
> > He needs to get all the right concussion stuff(helment,mouthpiece).
> > If JP has to play any extended amout of time will be out of the race.
>
> Schobel's been the invisible man.  With Stroud and Williams occupying
> blockers, he should be a holy terror.  But on the season, he has 1 sackand
> 4 QB hurries.  That's unacceptable for a guy getting $8M a year.  He got
> schooled by former Bills' LT Mike Gandy.

Schobel has played fine like I said.The Cards threw 3 step drops all
game long.Just like most teams have against us.Because our CBs
can't stop short passes.That's why every guy on this team has low
sack totals.Get that fixed and you will see all the guys sack totals
go
up.I seen Ellis play.He is worst then Ryan Denny at this point in his
career.


>
> As for Ellison, he's not a starter, but he was no worse than the other LB's
> last weekend.  I agree that McGee has to get healthy, as does Parrish.  But
> the Bills will only go as far as the defense takes them.

Are you kidding me about Ellison?That's why we went out in the
offeseason
and replaced him.Because the guy sucks.He might not have been no
worse last week then the other LBs but he has made noooo plays all
the other 4 week!Go look at the other two LBs stats then his.You
would be suprised how much replacing one guy in a defense can
make.You think oh


>
> MBD

> In every game Trent Edwards played his best ball in the 4th.He won a
> game against Oakland we should have never won.He brought the team
> back,the defense gave up a long TD right after.He brought the team
> back down for a TD and a FG to win the game.Not even taken into
> mind what he did in the Jags game.Losman has never did anything
> like this is his entire career.Edwards scored 17 points in the 4th
> quater of the Raiders game right?How many points were we down
> when JP got the ball to start the 4th quater of the Cards game?17
> points!So we still had some chance to win this game.The he fumbled
> and then he threw a INT.He didn't lose the game no.But he did
> nothing in the entire 2nd half to give us a shot to win it.

The Bills have only scored 17 points in the first 3 quarters once, against
the Seahawks (23, if you give the offense a FG for the TD throw by
Moorman). And true, they scored 17 against the Raiders in the 4th quarter.
I guess if you take the best first 3 quarters and the best 4th quarter
(although both were in home games), you'd get 40 points for the game. But
the Cards scored 41.

> I think Edwards would have got us in the 30's truely.Edwards
> gets better as the game goes along.If he is sacked a bunch or
> throws a INT it doesn't stop him.JP is rattled very easy.Edwards
> isn't.

As I alluded to above, Trent hasn't led the offense to 30 points in *any*
game this year. And 30 points still loses the game by 11 points.

> No lets not forget last year.Both played 8 games.Both behind the same
> line and JP took 2 times the sacks.We won the Rams game in a blow
> out.Because Edwards is not rattled by sacks.His Oline didn't play
> great
> but he didn't use that as a excuse to lose the game.He just went on
> to make plays.Losman crumbles when the heat gets going.

The Bills had no business trailing the Rams, especially with the great
field position they had all first half. You're seriously deluded if you
think Trent would have magically led the Bills to a win against the Cards,
given the offense's performance the first 4 weeks and with the way the
defense was playing.

> Both JP and the defense played bad.Both have the same amount
> of guilt in the lose of this game.This defense has been average all
> year so far.The running game as been average all year.We were
> 4-0 though with Edwards in there.

Please with the "same amount of guilt." Trent, had he not gotten knocked-
out of the game, wouldn't have fared much better. Again the Rams, with a
worse defense, sacked Trent 4 times. The protection against the Cards
wasn't much better.

> Schobel has played fine like I said.The Cards threw 3 step drops all
> game long.Just like most teams have against us.Because our CBs
> can't stop short passes.That's why every guy on this team has low
> sack totals.Get that fixed and you will see all the guys sack totals
> go
> up.I seen Ellis play.He is worst then Ryan Denny at this point in his
> career.

Sorry but Schobel hasn't played anything close to "fine." As I said, he
should be dominant with Stroud and Williams occupying blockers. And Ellis
may not be better than Denney, but he can't be any worse than Copeland
Bryan.

> Are you kidding me about Ellison?That's why we went out in the
> offeseason
> and replaced him.Because the guy sucks.He might not have been no
> worse last week then the other LBs but he has made noooo plays all
> the other 4 week!Go look at the other two LBs stats then his.You
> would be suprised how much replacing one guy in a defense can
> make.You think oh

Thanks to Crowell, who screwed the Bills over, there's nothing they can do
about the LB'er situation. I already said Ellison isn't a starter, but
that he was no worse this past game. Nothing more, nothing less.

MBD

> The Bills have only scored 17 points in the first 3 quarters once, against
> the Seahawks (23, if you give the offense a FG for the TD throw by
> Moorman).  And true, they scored 17 against the Raiders in the 4th quarter.  
> I guess if you take the best first 3 quarters and the best 4th quarter
> (although both were in home games), you'd get 40 points for the game.  But
> the Cards scored 41.  

Do you think if the Bills scored 40 points the Cards would seriously
score 41?Their isn't enuff time in the game.The offense turned the
ball over in our end of the field like 4 times.JP had a part in on 3
of
the turnovers.Who know's how less the Cards would have scored
if not for Losman's 3 turnovers.With 2 or 3 less turnovers the Bills
might could have won the game with 26 points.


> As I alluded to above, Trent hasn't led the offense to 30 points in *any*
> game this year.  And 30 points still loses the game by 11 points.

I don't care about "any game".I am talking about this game!Before
the Raiders game Edwards hadn't scored 17 points in a quarter.
Just because it hadn't happend yet,doesn't mean it cant be done.
Again If the Bills would have scored 30 points the Cardinals wouln't
have score 41.


> The Bills had no business trailing the Rams, especially with the great
> field position they had all first half.  You're seriously deluded if you
> think Trent would have magically led the Bills to a win against the Cards,
> given the offense's performance the first 4 weeks and with the way the
> defense was playing.

I never said Edwards would have won.But with him in there he
would have some chance of winning the game.As small as that
chance maybe.With JP there was not a chance in hell of him
winning.At the least with Edwards in there we lose by 10
or less points.JP turned it into a laugher with no chance.
Your very deluded.In like 3 yrs when JP is out of
the NFL maybe we can talk about this again.



> Please with the "same amount of guilt."  Trent, had he not gotten knocked-
> out of the game, wouldn't have fared much better.  Again the Rams, witha
> worse defense, sacked Trent 4 times.  The protection against the Cards
> wasn't much better.

One big problem you have here is that you don't think Edwards
is better then Losman.Better players give you a better chance to
win.I think at some point you will see Edwards is way better.The
stats won't always tell you the anwser.You will have to see on your
own.I don't know why you keep coming back to the Rams game.
This is a game that we won in a blow out.Edwards was sacked
4 times and came back and won the game.Your kinda making my
point for me.At the point that he was sacked 4 times he could
have fumbled and threw a INT and made the Rams game a
laugher.The way JP did in the Cards game.



> Sorry but Schobel hasn't played anything close to "fine."  As I said, he
> should be dominant with Stroud and Williams occupying blockers.  And Ellis
> may not be better than Denney, but he can't be any worse than Copeland
> Bryan.

As I said.Look at the sack tottals for the entire team.No one is
going to dominate on the Dline when the other teams QB is
taking 3 step drops most of the game.Bryan sucks yes but
him nor Ellis is better then Schobel.If we get our CBs stopping
the short passes.You will see the sacks go up.



> Thanks to Crowell, who screwed the Bills over, there's nothing they can do
> about the LB'er situation.  I already said Ellison isn't a starter, but
> that he was no worse this past game.  Nothing more, nothing less.


Ok the other LBers played last week like Ellison has all year.
Whatever that matters I don't know.




>
> MBD

> One big problem you have here is that you don't think Edwards
> is better then Losman.Better players give you a better chance to
> win.I think at some point you will see Edwards is way better.The
> stats won't always tell you the anwser.You will have to see on your
> own.I don't know why you keep coming back to the Rams game.
> This is a game that we won in a blow out.Edwards was sacked
> 4 times and came back and won the game.Your kinda making my
> point for me.At the point that he was sacked 4 times he could
> have fumbled and threw a INT and made the Rams game a
> laugher.The way JP did in the Cards game.

For starters, I'm not saying that Edwards isn't better (not that it matters
since Edwards is the future and Losman is gone at the end of the season).
What I am saying is that Losman wasn't the reason the Bills lost and Edwards
wouldn't have won the game anyway. I'll again point you to the Rams game the
week before. The Rams have no offense and the worst defense in the NFL. The
Bills were behind in that game until the 4th quarter, despite great field
position for most of the first half. Why you think it would have been
different against a great offense and a better defense is anyone's guess,
although I suspect it has to do with the Cards' game against the Jets, in
which the Jets' defense forced 7 turnovers to the Bills' none. Edwards
doesn't play defense and his offenses haven't scored more than 24 points this
season.

As for JP's fumble (the first fumble wasn't even remotely his fault) and INT
making the game a laugher, please. The game was a laugher because the Cards
scored on every possession in the first half and scored 41 points overall,
despite shutting-down their offense for most of the 4th quarter.

MBD

MBD <MBD@MBD.com> wrote:

> As for JP's fumble (the first fumble wasn't even remotely his fault) and INT
> making the game a laugher, please.

Of course the defense lost the Cards game. To argue anything else is
ludicrius.

FWIW, the Bills were actually still in the game until Robert Royal
fumbled. Perhaps we should blame the loss on him. Bills got blown out.
It happens. Bring on the Chargers!

<Bills will win the AFCE!>

Bender <lost@sea.com> wrote in
news:lost-96E827.08491309102008@news.giganews.com:

> MBD <MBD@MBD.com> wrote:
>
>> As for JP's fumble (the first fumble wasn't even remotely his fault)
>> and INT making the game a laugher, please.
>
> Of course the defense lost the Cards game. To argue anything else is
> ludicrius.
>
> FWIW, the Bills were actually still in the game until Robert Royal
> fumbled. Perhaps we should blame the loss on him. Bills got blown out.
> It happens. Bring on the Chargers!
>
> <Bills will win the AFCE!>

Fuggin' Royal also blew that Titans game in 2006 to end the Bills' chances
at the playoffs that year with that spastic reception of what should have
been a sure TD. The Bills need to get a real TE, finally.

MBD

On Oct 8, 10:44 pm, MBD <M...@MBD.com> wrote:
> > One big problem you have here is that you don't think Edwards
> > is better then Losman.Better players give you a better chance to
> > win.I think at some point you will see Edwards is way better.The
> > stats won't always tell you the anwser.You will have to see on your
> > own.I don't know why you keep coming back to the Rams game.
> > This is a game that we won in a blow out.Edwards was sacked
> > 4 times and came back and won the game.Your kinda making my
> > point for me.At the point that he was sacked 4 times he could
> > have fumbled and threw a INT and made the Rams game a
> > laugher.The way JP did in the Cards game.
>
> For starters, I'm not saying that Edwards isn't better (not that it matters
> since Edwards is the future and Losman is gone at the end of the season). 
> What I am saying is that Losman wasn't the reason the Bills lost and Edwards
> wouldn't have won the game anyway.  

To me you sound like you think Edwards and Losman are close in
skill level.(If I am wrong you can clear that up easy by telling me
which QB is better and if there close in skill).Me I think Edwards
is a ton better then JP.So it's not that hard to say Edwards would
have made this game closer.Because it's pretty much a fact better
players make your team better.






I'll again point you to the Rams game the
> week before.  The Rams have no offense and the worst defense in the NFL..  The
> Bills were behind in that game until the 4th quarter, despite great field
> position for most of the first half.  Why you think it would have been
> different against a great offense and a better defense is anyone's guess,
> although I suspect it has to do with the Cards' game against the Jets, in
> which the Jets' defense forced 7 turnovers to the Bills' none.  Edwards
> doesn't play defense and his offenses haven't scored more than 24 points this
> season.



Yes the rest of the team fucked up royal but so did JP.
Take away the two turnovers JP had and turn that into
two TDs for the Bills(this also takes away 7 points from the
Cards).This is a very close game if not tied.That's the reason
I say JP made it a laugher.The team fucked it up and JPs
fuck ups closed the book on any chance of making it a game.
By the way.I don't think the Cards have that much better
a defense then the Rams.They can be had in the passing
game.Looking at them all year that's MO.Will see how they
do against Dallas this week.


>
> As for JP's fumble (the first fumble wasn't even remotely his fault) and INT
> making the game a laugher, please.  The game was a laugher because the Cards
> scored on every possession in the first half and scored 41 points overall,
> despite shutting-down their offense for most of the 4th quarter.

Our defense actully shut the Cards down the enitre 2nd half.
They only had one drive for 7 points in the 2nd half.A drive
that would have ended in 3 points if not for Jenkins offsides.
The rest of the Cards scores in the 2nd half was all off turnovers.
JP led our offense to a wopping 3 points in the 2nd half(and set
the Cards offense up for 7 easy points).The funny thing is though.
He didn't even pass the ball one time on the 3 point drive.We had
a 20 yard return,then Lynch had a 22yard run.Then a couple of 1
yard runs and a 48 yard field goal.JP did nothing on offense in
the entire 2nd halffffffffff.3 points(he had nothing to do with)and
two turnovers in a 2nd half.That's a laugher!If anyone says
that's not bad play from a QB they don't know football.He was
just as guilty as the defense.His 2nd half was just as bad as the
Bills defense in the first half.

>
> MBD

On Oct 9, 7:49 am, Bender <l...@sea.com> wrote:
> MBD <M...@MBD.com> wrote:
> > As for JP's fumble (the first fumble wasn't even remotely his fault) and INT
> > making the game a laugher, please.


He had another fumble.One that you can put on him as 100%
his fault(Cards 7 easy points).He also had a INT and was sacked
5 times.Oh yeah he scored 3 points on offense in the entire second
half.A 3 point drive that he didn't even throw one pass.You hear the
laughter?

>
> Of course the defense lost the Cards game. To argue anything else is
> ludicrius.

Your Ludicrius.The Bills offense set up 17 of the Cards points.
(Losman/Lynch fumble 7pts,Royal's fumble 3pts,JPs fumble 7pts)
The defense didn't play well but by far didn't lose them game alone.




>
> FWIW, the Bills were actually still in the game until Robert Royal
> fumbled. Perhaps we should blame the loss on him. Bills got blown out.
> It happens. Bring on the Chargers!

You kidding right?Robert Royal giving the Cards 3 more points
knocked us out of the game?If JP is the QB I guarantee a loss in
the Chargers game.

>
> <Bills will win the AFCE!>

> To me you sound like you think Edwards and Losman are close in
> skill level.(If I am wrong you can clear that up easy by telling me
> which QB is better and if there close in skill).Me I think Edwards
> is a ton better then JP.So it's not that hard to say Edwards would
> have made this game closer.Because it's pretty much a fact better
> players make your team better.

I'm still waiting to see if Edwards is the guy. Everyone else seems
convinced, but I'm still not there yet. His last quarter heroics
notwithstanding, IMHO those games shouldn't have come down to the 4th
quarter. And I wasn't overly impressed with the offense's performance
against the Rams, given the quality of their defense and the great field
position they had in the first half.

But I know Losman's time in Buffalo is over, so he's not the guy. I just
don't believe he's as bad as everyone thinks and would have liked to have
seen him with the team the Bills have no back a couple years ago. With the
Bills' defense this year, the Bills would have made the playoffs in 2006.

> Yes the rest of the team fucked up royal but so did JP.
> Take away the two turnovers JP had and turn that into
> two TDs for the Bills(this also takes away 7 points from the
> Cards).This is a very close game if not tied.That's the reason
> I say JP made it a laugher.The team fucked it up and JPs
> fuck ups closed the book on any chance of making it a game.
> By the way.I don't think the Cards have that much better
> a defense then the Rams.They can be had in the passing
> game.Looking at them all year that's MO.Will see how they
> do against Dallas this week.

By the time JP's first real turnover happened, the score was already 34-17.
With the way the defense was playing, the game was essentially over.

> Our defense actully shut the Cards down the enitre 2nd half.
> They only had one drive for 7 points in the 2nd half.A drive
> that would have ended in 3 points if not for Jenkins offsides.
> The rest of the Cards scores in the 2nd half was all off turnovers.
> JP led our offense to a wopping 3 points in the 2nd half(and set
> the Cards offense up for 7 easy points).The funny thing is though.
> He didn't even pass the ball one time on the 3 point drive.We had
> a 20 yard return,then Lynch had a 22yard run.Then a couple of 1
> yard runs and a 48 yard field goal.JP did nothing on offense in
> the entire 2nd halffffffffff.3 points(he had nothing to do with)and
> two turnovers in a 2nd half.That's a laugher!If anyone says
> that's not bad play from a QB they don't know football.He was
> just as guilty as the defense.His 2nd half was just as bad as the
> Bills defense in the first half.

The defense gave-up 17 (13 if you take away Jenkins' boneheaded ST's play)
points in the 2nd half. That's far from "shutting down the Cards." If
anything, the Cards shut-down their offense after scoring 41 points, by
running on first and 2nd down and throwing on 3rd. Had the Bills continued
to score, they would have continued to do the same.

Trent's presence likely wouldn't have prevented a loss. Maybe it's a
closer loss, but that's meaningless. And with the way the defense
performed and JP not having seen much game action since about midway
through last season, pinning the blame on him is foolish.

MBD

> He had another fumble.One that you can put on him as 100%
> his fault(Cards 7 easy points).He also had a INT and was sacked
> 5 times.Oh yeah he scored 3 points on offense in the entire second
> half.A 3 point drive that he didn't even throw one pass.You hear the
> laughter?

Do I hear laughter because Losman was sacked/fumbled and INT'd in the 4th
quarter, after the Bills were down 34-17? Not really, except from those
who want to desperately pin the blame for the loss on him.

>> Of course the defense lost the Cards game. To argue anything else is
>> ludicrius.
>
> Your Ludicrius.The Bills offense set up 17 of the Cards points.
> (Losman/Lynch fumble 7pts,Royal's fumble 3pts,JPs fumble 7pts)
> The defense didn't play well but by far didn't lose them game alone.

What?! How does giving up 41 points absolve the defense of the majority of
the blame? And when has the Bills' offense scored more than 24 points *in
a game* this season? The answer is, they haven't, even when playing some
of the worst defenses WRT points-allowed. So the idea that the Bills
defense would have limited the Cards' offense had the Bills' offense scored
more doesn't exactly hold water, on several fronts.

And Edwards has been sacked 11 times in 4 games, lost 2 fumbles, and been
INT'd twice. Fortunately the teams they played weren't that good on
offense, if not defense.

> You kidding right?Robert Royal giving the Cards 3 more points
> knocked us out of the game?If JP is the QB I guarantee a loss in
> the Chargers game.

Why shouldn't Royal take blame? It was 31-17 at the time. Had the Bills
scored a TD, the game would have been 31-24. You seem to want to blame
Losman for everytime the Bills didn't score, yet Royal's gaffe more or less
put the game out of reach.

And if Edwards isn't back for the Chargers game, the Bills will have to
look for a new starting QB. It wouldn't be a good sign if he can't recover
from his concussion in 2 weeks time.

>> <Bills will win the AFCE!>

That's what I'm expecting.

MBD

Kountzeguy <jjtx81@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Your Ludicrius.The Bills offense set up 17 of the Cards points.

And by your thinking.... JP threw a 87 yard TD pass and scored a TD
himself giving the Bills 14 points. That is about even. It ain't
rocket science...the defense (or complete lack of it) lost this game.

On Oct 10, 2:45 pm, MBD <M...@MBD.com> wrote:
> > He had another fumble.One that you can put on him as 100%
> > his fault(Cards 7 easy points).He also had a INT and was sacked
> > 5 times.Oh yeah he scored 3 points on offense in the entire second
> > half.A 3 point drive that he didn't even throw one pass.You hear the
> > laughter?
>
> Do I hear laughter because Losman was sacked/fumbled and INT'd in the 4th
> quarter, after the Bills were down 34-17?  Not really, except from those
> who want to desperately pin the blame for the loss on him.

I have not one time pined this game on JP.You are the one
that has over and over pined it on the defense.When you
give JP no credit for the lose.I have said both the defense
and the offense played bad.That inculdes JP and everyone
on offense.Ok when your down 17 points it's fine to just give
up?It's fine to play bad at that point?.I'ts fine to score 3 points
and not get closer then 17 points?Because anyone would
laught at 4 sacks and a fumble and a INT for a QB in a quarter.

 
>
> >> Of course the defense lost the Cards game. To argue anything else is
> >> ludicrius.
>
> > Your Ludicrius.The Bills offense set up 17 of the Cards points.
> > (Losman/Lynch fumble 7pts,Royal's fumble 3pts,JPs fumble 7pts)
> > The defense didn't play well but by far didn't lose them game alone.
>
> What?!  How does giving up 41 points absolve the defense of the majority of
> the blame?  And when has the Bills' offense scored more than 24 points *in
> a game* this season?  The answer is, they haven't, even when playing some
> of the worst defenses WRT points-allowed.  So the idea that the Bills
> defense would have limited the Cards' offense had the Bills' offense scored
> more doesn't exactly hold water, on several fronts.


The defense played bad but the offense put them in bad spots
all game long.When your offense turns the ball over in the other
teams side of the field 4 times your defense is going to look real
bad in the NFL.If you put all the blame on the defense,you just
don't know football period.17 points 4 turn overs and 3 points
in the second half.That's great play on offense!

UM it's very easy to understand.When you score you eat up clock
and the other team doesn't get the ball.I don't see how if the Bills
scored
30 points and didn't turn the ball over.How the Cards could make long
drives and still score 41.Their just isn't enuff time in the game.The
Cards had greatttttt field position all game and they only scored 41.
I'm not sure how worst field position and the Bills scoring more
points(running clock)don't equal less points for the Cards.
Maybe im crazy.



>
> And Edwards has been sacked 11 times in 4 games, lost 2 fumbles, and been
> INT'd twice.  Fortunately the teams they played weren't that good on
> offense, if not defense.

Edwards took 11 sacks in 4 games.JP took 5 in one LMAO.
You make this easy.Isn't that like alomst half Edwards total
in one game?The Jags and Raiders defense is better then
the Cards.JP crumbled in the 2nd half.Edwards scored
17 points.


>
> > You kidding right?Robert Royal giving the Cards 3 more points
> > knocked us out of the game?If JP is the QB I guarantee a loss in
> > the Chargers game.
>
> Why shouldn't Royal take blame?  It was 31-17 at the time.  Had the Bills
> scored a TD, the game would have been 31-24.  You seem to want to blame
> Losman for everytime the Bills didn't score, yet Royal's gaffe more or less
> put the game out of reach.


I blame Royal,JP,and the entire offense.That's what you
don't seem to get!JP only scored 3 points in the 2nd half
and was sacked 5 times,had a int and fumble.You ask
me why I let Royal off the hook(he is on my hook too)and
you let JP off the hook for 3 points in a half.As if we would
have won with 17 points if not for bad defense play.JP
played bad!Get it through your head!I bet you would be
the first one in here bashing Edwards if he played this
way.

>
> And if Edwards isn't back for the Chargers game, the Bills will have to
> look for a new starting QB.  It wouldn't be a good sign if he can't recover
> from his concussion in 2 weeks time.

Yeah lets go looking for new QBs when this one had us 4-0.
A Concussion could be two or more weeks.I think he will be
back but if JP has to play I have no faith he can win games.


>
> >> <Bills will win the AFCE!>
>
> That's what I'm expecting.
>
> MBD

On Oct 10, 9:38 pm, Bender <l...@sea.com> wrote:
> Kountzeguy <jjt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Your Ludicrius.The Bills offense set up 17 of the Cards points.
>
> And by your thinking.... JP threw a 87 yard TD pass and scored a TD
> himself giving the Bills 14 points. That is about even. It ain't
> rocket science...the defense (or complete lack of it) lost this game.

If our offense got 4 turnovers right by the other teams endzone.
How many points do we score?Would our chance of winning
the game be much much much higher?Hell yes.Learn football
please!!!!!!!.Ludicrius if you don't think our offense played
a part in how bad our defense played.A pop warner cheerleader
could tell you that 4 turnovers is bad play by a offense.No matter
how many points your defense gives up.

> I'm still waiting to see if Edwards is the guy.  Everyone else seems
> convinced, but I'm still not there yet.  His last quarter heroics
> notwithstanding, IMHO those games shouldn't have come down to the 4th
> quarter.  And I wasn't overly impressed with the offense's performance
> against the Rams, given the quality of their defense and the great field
> position they had in the first half.  

I didn't ask you if he was the guy.I asked you if he was better
or close to JP.We have the same players we had on offense
last year.JP lost to bad teams and was sacked a ton.So I don't
get you being upset with Edwards for beating these teams.JP
would have never been 4-0 in these games.


>
> But I know Losman's time in Buffalo is over, so he's not the guy.  I just
> don't believe he's as bad as everyone thinks and would have liked to have
> seen him with the team the Bills have no back a couple years ago.  Withthe
> Bills' defense this year, the Bills would have made the playoffs in 2006.

Your a JP guy that's fine.

>
> > Yes the rest of the team fucked up royal but so did JP.
> > Take away the two turnovers JP had and turn that into
> > two TDs for the Bills(this also takes away 7 points from the
> > Cards).This is a very close game if not tied.That's the reason
> > I say JP made it a laugher.The team fucked it up and JPs
> > fuck ups closed the book on any chance of making it a game.
> > By the way.I don't think the Cards have that much better
> > a defense then the Rams.They can be had in the passing
> > game.Looking at them all year that's MO.Will see how they
> > do against Dallas this week.
>
> By the time JP's first real turnover happened, the score was already 34-17.  
> With the way the defense was playing, the game was essentially over.

He could have scored more then 17 points before his turnover.
Who do you blame the 3 points in the half on?Because Royal
fumbled only one time.JP had many chances with the ball to
score.17 would have never been enough to win this game.

>
> > Our defense actully shut the Cards down the enitre 2nd half.
> > They only had one drive for 7 points in the 2nd half.A drive
> > that would have ended in 3 points if not for Jenkins offsides.
> > The rest of the Cards scores in the 2nd half was all off turnovers.
> > JP led our offense to a wopping 3 points in the 2nd half(and set
> > the Cards offense up for 7 easy points).The funny thing is though.
> > He didn't even pass the ball one time on the 3 point drive.We had
> > a 20 yard return,then Lynch had a 22yard run.Then a couple of 1
> > yard runs and a 48 yard field goal.JP did nothing on offense in
> > the entire 2nd halffffffffff.3 points(he had nothing to do with)and
> > two turnovers in a 2nd half.That's a laugher!If anyone says
> > that's not bad play from a QB they don't know football.He was
> > just as guilty as the defense.His 2nd half was just as bad as the
> > Bills defense in the first half.
>
> The defense gave-up 17 (13 if you take away Jenkins' boneheaded ST's play)
> points in the 2nd half.  That's far from "shutting down the Cards."  If
> anything, the Cards shut-down their offense after scoring 41 points, by
> running on first and 2nd down and throwing on 3rd.  Had the Bills continued
> to score, they would have continued to do the same.


17 points,10 of which was turnovers right by the Cards endzone.
WOW you don't get it.The Cards only had to drive the ball one time
in the second half.The other two scores were easy.They shut
the offense down after 41 because JP threw a INT and they could run
most of the clock out.The game was lost well before this.Because we
could't score on offense and kept turning the ball over for easy
scores.



>
> Trent's presence likely wouldn't have prevented a loss.  Maybe it's a
> closer loss, but that's meaningless.  And with the way the defense
> performed and JP not having seen much game action since about midway
> through last season, pinning the blame on him is foolish.

I didn't pin it on him for the 15th time.Your the one wanting him
to take no blame.You refuse to say he played bad.Take everything
out of your head about out defense.Then look at JPs play alone.
5 sacks,1int,1fumble,3 points in a half.Our defense could have
givin up 80 and still JP played bad.

>
> MBD

>> I'm still waiting to see if Edwards is the guy.  Everyone else seems
>> convinced, but I'm still not there yet.  His last quarter heroics
>> notwithstanding, IMHO those games shouldn't have come down to the 4th
>> quarter.  And I wasn't overly impressed with the offense's
>> performance against the Rams, given the quality of their defense and
>> the great field position they had in the first half.  
>
> I didn't ask you if he was the guy.I asked you if he was better
> or close to JP.We have the same players we had on offense
> last year.JP lost to bad teams and was sacked a ton.So I don't
> get you being upset with Edwards for beating these teams.JP
> would have never been 4-0 in these games.

With the state of the Seahawks, Raiders, and Rams, the Bills should have
been able to beat them regardless of the QB. They're not good teams.
That's why I remained unconvinced on Edwards, given the way the offense
struggled for the first 3 quarters of each of those games. The Jags
game *might* have been a loss with Losman, but the Jags aren't as good
as they were the previous years. So at worst, I see the Bills at 3-1
with Losman over Edwards and therefore I could say that Edwards is slightly
better than Losman. But without a true way to compare them, I can't say
for sure.

As for your contention that it's the same offense, it isn't. Replacing
Fairchild with Schonert was huge. And the addition of Hardy and
Schouman coming back have given them more talent. Plus the defense is
better than it's been in years, the last game aside.

> Your a JP guy that's fine.

What does that have to do with saying that the Bills would have made the
playoffs in 2006 if the defense had been as good as this year's? Seeing as
how the Bills lost 5 games by 3 or fewer points, I think that's a wholly
valid claim.

But to reply to your observation, I like Losman. I agree that his time in
Buffalo wasn't successful, but mostly because he wasn't given the tools to
succeed. I think most everyone can agree that the Bills' defense has
sucked since Pat Williams left after the 2004 season. In addition, outside
of Evans and McGahee, and then Lynch and Peters last year, there hasn't
been a whole lot of talent on offense. Add in that Fairchild was a stiff
who unsuccessfully tried to run the Rams' offense without the proper
personnel (or coaching talent), and who wouldn't let the QB's audible, and
it's not hard to see why he failed.

But as I've said, I realize that the team is now Edwards' and Losman's time
has come and gone. That still doesn't mean that Losman is the main reason
for the Bills' failures either in that Cards game, or the past 3 years.

> He could have scored more then 17 points before his turnover.
> Who do you blame the 3 points in the half on?Because Royal
> fumbled only one time.JP had many chances with the ball to
> score.17 would have never been enough to win this game.

What would have been enough points? Again I'll point you to the Rams game
the week before. The Rams had the worst defense in the NFL when it came to
points allowed. And despite the defense giving-up a quick 14 points and
the offense failing to score more than 2 FG's in the first half despite
excellent field position, the defense still held the Rams' offense to no
points after the initial 14. Yet it took until the 4th quarter (and the
defense scoring the winning points) for the offense to put the game away,
by scoring 14 points. Why was the defense able to shut-down the Rams'
offense despite the Bills' offense's ineptitude (13 points through 3
quarters)? I think we all know the answer and it has nothing to do with
the Bills' QB.

> 17 points,10 of which was turnovers right by the Cards endzone.
> WOW you don't get it.The Cards only had to drive the ball one time
> in the second half.The other two scores were easy.They shut
> the offense down after 41 because JP threw a INT and they could run
> most of the clock out.The game was lost well before this.Because we
> could't score on offense and kept turning the ball over for easy
> scores.

Yes 10 points were scored off of turnovers. The same number that were
scored off of Edwards' turnovers in the Oakland game, a game in which the
Bills' offense scored 7 points (scored off a Russell fumble at the
Raiders' 23 yard line) in 3 quarters. Once again, you are undone by things
that have already happened to the Bills, and seem to think that they
somehow would have played better than they've played so far against the
Cards.

> I didn't pin it on him for the 15th time.Your the one wanting him
> to take no blame.You refuse to say he played bad.Take everything
> out of your head about out defense.Then look at JPs play alone.
> 5 sacks,1int,1fumble,3 points in a half.Our defense could have
> givin up 80 and still JP played bad.

And how about this stat line: 4 sacks, 1 INT, 6 points scored in a half.
You think that's winning play against the Cards?

MBD

..
>
> With the state of the Seahawks, Raiders, and Rams, the Bills should have
> been able to beat them regardless of the QB.  They're not good teams.
> That's why I remained unconvinced on Edwards, given the way the offense
> struggled for the first 3 quarters of each of those games.  The Jags
> game *might* have been a loss with Losman, but the Jags aren't as good
> as they were the previous years.  So at worst, I see the Bills at 3-1
> with Losman over Edwards and therefore I could say that Edwards is slightly
> better than Losman.  But without a true way to compare them, I can't say
> for sure.


Slightly lol.If you said Edwards was slightly better then JP last year
I might except that.But Edwards looks so much better this year.The
guy put in the work in offseason.His arm is much stronger.He reads
defenses so much better.He knows how to lead.JP is still the same
guy we drafted.I could put in tape of him as a rookie and tape now
of him in his 5th year and it's still the same skill level.

With JP the starter this year,I give him atleast 3 losses.
I think he would have blew out the Seahawks.Lost to the
Raiders and Jags.The Rams game is if'y to me.If Edwards
was sacked 4 times I can see JP being sacked atleast 6
times.I think it would be very close but I will give JP a win.
He did lose to the Cards.I would guess we would be 2-3
right now with him the starter.



>
> As for your contention that it's the same offense, it isn't.  Replacing
> Fairchild with Schonert was huge.  And the addition of Hardy and
> Schouman coming back have given them more talent.  Plus the defense is
> better than it's been in years, the last game aside.

Hardy is a rookie.He hasn't really done much.Schouman has done
less then Hardy.Take away both and were still 4-1.They might play
a big role later in the year but up to this point they havn't.Like I
said.
We have the same players as last year.Yes the OC has changed
but last year both played 8 games and Edwards played better as a
rookie,then JP in his 4th year.So it doesn't matter who the OC was.
Edwards played with the same players.



>
> > Your a JP guy that's fine.
>
> What does that have to do with saying that the Bills would have made the
> playoffs in 2006 if the defense had been as good as this year's?  Seeing as
> how the Bills lost 5 games by 3 or fewer points, I think that's a wholly
> valid claim.


Your probably right.But JP could have scored 3 points in a few of
them games without a better defense.I think you could place
Edwards on the 2006 team and keep the 2006 defense and we make
the playoffs anyways.He has shown he can win games in the clutch.
JP never really has.You can't blame 5 games lost by 3 or less all
on the defense.

>
> But to reply to your observation, I like Losman.  I agree that his timein
> Buffalo wasn't successful, but mostly because he wasn't given the tools to
> succeed.  I think most everyone can agree that the Bills' defense has
> sucked since Pat Williams left after the 2004 season.  In addition, outside
> of Evans and McGahee, and then Lynch and Peters last year, there hasn't
> been a whole lot of talent on offense.  Add in that Fairchild was a stiff
> who unsuccessfully tried to run the Rams' offense without the proper
> personnel (or coaching talent), and who wouldn't let the QB's audible, and
> it's not hard to see why he failed.

The talent was not great I agree.I just look at JP and I don't
see the skills to be a good NFL QB.This goes back to his
college career.He took a ton of sacks at Tulane.I see the
stats of him behind the same line as Edwards.When one QB
takes almost 50% more sacks then the other QB something is
wrong.The only way I can see him succeding is if you put him
behind a all pro line.
 

 
>
> > He could have scored more then 17 points before his turnover.
> > Who do you blame the 3 points in the half on?Because Royal
> > fumbled only one time.JP had many chances with the ball to
> > score.17 would have never been enough to win this game.
>
> What would have been enough points?  Again I'll point you to the Rams game
> the week before.  The Rams had the worst defense in the NFL when it came to
> points allowed.  And despite the defense giving-up a quick 14 points and
> the offense failing to score more than 2 FG's in the first half despite
> excellent field position, the defense still held the Rams' offense to no
> points after the initial 14.  Yet it took until the 4th quarter (and the
> defense scoring the winning points) for the offense to put the game away,
> by scoring 14 points.  Why was the defense able to shut-down the Rams'
> offense despite the Bills' offense's ineptitude (13 points through 3
> quarters)?  I think we all know the answer and it has nothing to do with
> the Bills' QB.



 

> Yes 10 points were scored off of turnovers.  The same number that were
> scored off of Edwards' turnovers in the Oakland game, a game in which the
> Bills' offense scored 7 points (scored off a Russell fumble at the
> Raiders' 23 yard line) in 3 quarters.  Once again, you are undone by things
> that have already happened to the Bills, and seem to think that they
> somehow would have played better than they've played so far against the
> Cards.

No I just think we let the Cards offense off the hook.We gave
them easy easy scores.We didn't even give Kurt Warner a chance
to throw some INTs in the 2nd half when the game got close.The
game got close then we had a turnover party.The defense
might have still gave up 41 on long drives.Who knows but that
still doesn't excuse the way our offense played in the 2nd half.





>
> > I didn't pin it on him for the 15th time.Your the one wanting him
> > to take no blame.You refuse to say he played bad.Take everything
> > out of your head about out defense.Then look at JPs play alone.
> > 5 sacks,1int,1fumble,3 points in a half.Our defense could have
> > givin up 80 and still JP played bad.
>
> And how about this stat line: 4 sacks, 1 INT, 6 points scored in a half.  
> You think that's winning play against the Cards?

It's is good enough to blow out the Rams.Each game is differn't.
In the Cards game JP played QB not Edwards.If Edwards played
the entire Cards game he might have had 7 tds or 7 ints.You never
know but I do know JP Losman was sacked 5 times.fumble,had a INT,
and scored 3 points in a half.

Look, I'm not going to waste more time trying to defend Losman's play the
previous 3 years, or against the Cards coming off the bench like he did.
He's gone at the end of the year and the less he plays this year, because
Edwards stays healthy and is the QB of the future, the better.

He didn't play well against the Cards, but who did on the team? No one.
He has no more responsibility for the loss than Edwards does for putting
himself in a position to get knocked out and the Bills' needing to rely on
their backup QB to win the game.

And sure every game is different. But when all you have is recent history
to go off of, that's the best indicator; not believing that the offense
would suddenly, miraculously, become a juggernaut against the best team the
Bills have faced so far. I conceded that with Edwards it might have been a
closer loss, but that still doesn't change the fact that they would have a
loss.

And the idea that the defense plays based on the offense is a fallacy. A
good defense will play well regardless of what the offense does, unless the
offense gives-up the ball in scoring position. There is so much
subsitution on defense that using the "they're tired" excuse is lame.

And whether Losman, with a week (or in this case, 2) to prepare for the
Chargers, could win the game, is a matter of conjecture. I hope we don't
find out. But this is another game the Bills *should* win. The Chargers
are wounded and have to make the long trip to the East Coast, after what
should be a hard-fought game (and hopefully win) tonight against the Pats,
while the Bills have 2 weeks to rest and prepare.

MBD

TOG wrote, "...why is it, when Losman is is out there, it just seems
like it's Curly Howard out there."

Don't insult Curly. JP is more of a Shemp. JP might as well be a
rookie. His learning curve stopped on the uphill slope. Too bad, what
a friggin waste of an arm. They should send JP, McCargo, and a 4th to
KC for Tony G. and call it a day.