- Scored 684 runs, good for 12th in a 16 team league.
- Had no player reach 500 at bats.
- Were pretty close to the worst defensive team in the NL.
- Had exactly two players who achieved 200 at bats and a .350+ OBP.
- Were led by two 38-year old starting pitchers and their #3 guy was
33.
- The back of the rotation was a bunch of guys named Jae Seo, Matt
Ginter, and Kris Benson.
- The only place the team was any good was in the bullpen, which was
led by setup guys who were 34, 37, and 43.
- The average age of a position player was 29.8.
- The average age of a pitcher was 32.5!

This is what Omar Minaya inherited. Oh yeah, and they '04 Mets won 71
games.

Omar has seen 83, 97, 88, and 89 win seasons. He has raised the
average age of position players slightly to 30.1, but of course, some
of that is Wright and Reyes, who were 21 in '04 and certainly bringing
things down. He has LOWERED the age of the pitching staff to 29,
which is nothing short of remarkable. Next year's 1, 2, and 3 will
likely be 30, 25, and 28. He's also got players ready to step in, and
has rebuilt the farm system.

Omar drafted Mike Pelfrey, Jonathon Niese, Bobby Parnell, Kevin Mulvey
(Santana deal), Joe Smith, and Daniel Murphy. He has signed Fernando
Martinez, Wilmer Flores, and Jefrey Marte, all of whom have very
bright futures.

I keep reading on here how Omar has done nothing. This is
shortsighted at best. Look at that 2004 roster. Other then Wright
and Reyes, once the Kazmir deal was made, did anybody really see a
future there? Did anybody really think Jason Phillips and Kaz Matsui
and Richard Hidalgo and Eric Valent and Ty Wigginton and Matt Ginter
and Jae Seo were a real future? I'm sorry, but Omar has made
mistakes, but to even suggest this team isn't in better shape then
when he took over and clearly moving in the right direction is
shortsighted at best.

"jonathan" <jmerin77@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:37d87ab8-0c01-405a-a9ba-e4e94d14a2ac@v53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>- Scored 684 runs, good for 12th in a 16 team league.
> - Had no player reach 500 at bats.
> - Were pretty close to the worst defensive team in the NL.
> - Had exactly two players who achieved 200 at bats and a .350+ OBP.
> - Were led by two 38-year old starting pitchers and their #3 guy was
> 33.
> - The back of the rotation was a bunch of guys named Jae Seo, Matt
> Ginter, and Kris Benson.
> - The only place the team was any good was in the bullpen, which was
> led by setup guys who were 34, 37, and 43.
> - The average age of a position player was 29.8.
> - The average age of a pitcher was 32.5!
>
> This is what Omar Minaya inherited. Oh yeah, and they '04 Mets won 71
> games.
>
> Omar has seen 83, 97, 88, and 89 win seasons. He has raised the
> average age of position players slightly to 30.1, but of course, some
> of that is Wright and Reyes, who were 21 in '04 and certainly bringing
> things down. He has LOWERED the age of the pitching staff to 29,
> which is nothing short of remarkable. Next year's 1, 2, and 3 will
> likely be 30, 25, and 28. He's also got players ready to step in, and
> has rebuilt the farm system.
>
> Omar drafted Mike Pelfrey, Jonathon Niese, Bobby Parnell, Kevin Mulvey
> (Santana deal), Joe Smith, and Daniel Murphy. He has signed Fernando
> Martinez, Wilmer Flores, and Jefrey Marte, all of whom have very
> bright futures.
>
> I keep reading on here how Omar has done nothing. This is
> shortsighted at best. Look at that 2004 roster. Other then Wright
> and Reyes, once the Kazmir deal was made, did anybody really see a
> future there? Did anybody really think Jason Phillips and Kaz Matsui
> and Richard Hidalgo and Eric Valent and Ty Wigginton and Matt Ginter
> and Jae Seo were a real future? I'm sorry, but Omar has made
> mistakes, but to even suggest this team isn't in better shape then
> when he took over and clearly moving in the right direction is
> shortsighted at best.

Omar's done fine. Jerry will do well. The "core' is young and will be fine.

All of this bitching and moaning about the above mentioned things is either
Yankee-fed Fat Francesca Met bashing from Yankee fans, or from so called
"Met fans" who have taken on the win-or-nothing attitude of the NY
press/media. Glass half empty, glass half full.. How many other teams would
love to have had a chance to play for the post season up until the last day
of the season?

The Mets were done in by their bullpen, that's it. Everything else is rooted
in that fact. 29 Blown saves says it all. A strike-out here, a bad at bat
there, does not come anywhere close to the 29 blown saves.

That's it, and it's up to Omar to fix it. If he does not fix this bullpen
then he will deserve all of the shit he gets at the end of 2009.

LGM 2009

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:44:49 -0700, jonathan wrote:

>
> I keep reading on here how Omar has done nothing. This is
> shortsighted at best. Look at that 2004 roster. Other then Wright
> and Reyes, once the Kazmir deal was made, did anybody really see a
> future there? Did anybody really think Jason Phillips and Kaz Matsui
> and Richard Hidalgo and Eric Valent and Ty Wigginton and Matt Ginter
> and Jae Seo were a real future?

The things is, I said at the time it would take 5 years to rebuild this
franchise, less time if they didn't sign big free agents and got more
draft choices.

The Wilpon's and Mets-in-PR had no patients. So I find it even more
amazing that he has rebuilt so much of this team and still rebuilt a good
part of the farm system. To me, it's been nothing short of amazing.

Ruben

--
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So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:20:35 -0400, Element wrote:

> The Mets were done in by their bullpen, that's it.

They've also had a thin major league bench which is mostly a result of not
having enough young talent to work through.

Consider that in '85-90 the Mets had Hojo, Mitchel, Jeffies, Magadan,
Tuefel, Mazilli, Danny Heep and Wilson and more on the bench at various
times.

Ruben

--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

On Oct 6, 8:51 pm, Ruben <ru...@www2.mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:44:49 -0700, jonathan wrote:
>
> > I keep reading on here how Omar has done nothing.  This is
> > shortsighted at best.  Look at that 2004 roster.  Other then Wright
> > and Reyes, once the Kazmir deal was made, did anybody really see a
> > future there?  Did anybody really think Jason Phillips and Kaz Matsui
> > and Richard Hidalgo and Eric Valent and Ty Wigginton and Matt Ginter
> > and Jae Seo were a real future?
>
> The things is, I said at the time it would take 5 years to rebuild this
> franchise, less time if they didn't sign big free agents and got more
> draft choices.
>

Yep, you were wrong. During the time you wanted to rebuild and have a
AA team playing at ML level. And this are the results 5 years later:

WINS Mets Rays Royals Marlins
2004 71 70 58 83
2005 83 67 56 83
2006 97 61 62 78
2007 88 66 69 71
2008 89 97 75 84

> The Wilpon's and Mets-in-PR had no patients.  So I find it even more
> amazing that he has rebuilt so much of this team and still rebuilt a good
> part of the farm system.  To me, it's been nothing short of amazing.

Yep I was right!! Thank you!!

BTW I do respect people who admit their mistakes!!

LGM 2009!!

Met-in-PR.

>
> --http://www.mrbrklyn.com- Interesting Stuffhttp://www.nylxs.com- Leadership Development in Free Software
>
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world  - RISafir 1998
>
> http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>
> "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
>
> "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
>
> "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
> You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess you missed that one."
>
> © Copyright for the Digital Millennium

On Oct 6, 7:44 pm, jonathan <jmeri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - Scored 684 runs, good for 12th in a 16 team league.
> - Had no player reach 500 at bats.
> - Were pretty close to the worst defensive team in the NL.
> - Had exactly two players who achieved 200 at bats and a .350+ OBP.
> - Were led by two 38-year old starting pitchers and their #3 guy was
> 33.
> - The back of the rotation was a bunch of guys named Jae Seo, Matt
> Ginter, and Kris Benson.
> - The only place the team was any good was in the bullpen, which was
> led by setup guys who were 34, 37, and 43.
> - The average age of a position player was 29.8.
> - The average age of a pitcher was 32.5!
>
> This is what Omar Minaya inherited.  Oh yeah, and they '04 Mets won 71
> games.
>
> Omar has seen 83, 97, 88, and 89 win seasons.  He has raised the
> average age of position players slightly to 30.1, but of course, some
> of that is Wright and Reyes, who were 21 in '04 and certainly bringing
> things down.  He has LOWERED the age of the pitching staff to 29,
> which is nothing short of remarkable.  Next year's 1, 2, and 3 will
> likely be 30, 25, and 28.  He's also got players ready to step in, and
> has rebuilt the farm system.
>
> Omar drafted Mike Pelfrey, Jonathon Niese, Bobby Parnell, Kevin Mulvey
> (Santana deal), Joe Smith, and Daniel Murphy.  He has signed Fernando
> Martinez, Wilmer Flores, and Jefrey Marte, all of whom have very
> bright futures.
>
> I keep reading on here how Omar has done nothing.  This is
> shortsighted at best.  Look at that 2004 roster.  Other then Wright
> and Reyes, once the Kazmir deal was made, did anybody really see a
> future there?  Did anybody really think Jason Phillips and Kaz Matsui
> and Richard Hidalgo and Eric Valent and Ty Wigginton and Matt Ginter
> and Jae Seo were a real future?  I'm sorry, but Omar has made
> mistakes, but to even suggest this team isn't in better shape then
> when he took over and clearly moving in the right direction is
> shortsighted at best.

But you have to consider if things would have been similar now if
Phillips were still GM. How would things be different with Phillips as
GM than with Omar? Would Pedro, Beltran, and Wagner not taken the
highest offer? Of course they would have. There's nothing special
about offering a free agent the top dollar and then having him sign
with your team. Would we have Fernando Maritnez? Probably not but then
would Phillips have been stupid enough to trade Kazmir as Duquette
did? Again, probably not. I dont' know if Phillips could have traded
for Santana. Hard to say. But I do know Phillips' speciality as GM was
building a strong bullpen.

On Oct 7, 9:48 pm, "blackje...@aol.com" <blackje...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 7:44 pm, jonathan <jmeri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > - Scored 684 runs, good for 12th in a 16 team league.
> > - Had no player reach 500 at bats.
> > - Were pretty close to the worst defensive team in the NL.
> > - Had exactly two players who achieved 200 at bats and a .350+ OBP.
> > - Were led by two 38-year old starting pitchers and their #3 guy was
> > 33.
> > - The back of the rotation was a bunch of guys named Jae Seo, Matt
> > Ginter, and Kris Benson.
> > - The only place the team was any good was in the bullpen, which was
> > led by setup guys who were 34, 37, and 43.
> > - The average age of a position player was 29.8.
> > - The average age of a pitcher was 32.5!
>
> > This is what Omar Minaya inherited.  Oh yeah, and they '04 Mets won 71
> > games.
>
> > Omar has seen 83, 97, 88, and 89 win seasons.  He has raised the
> > average age of position players slightly to 30.1, but of course, some
> > of that is Wright and Reyes, who were 21 in '04 and certainly bringing
> > things down.  He has LOWERED the age of the pitching staff to 29,
> > which is nothing short of remarkable.  Next year's 1, 2, and 3 will
> > likely be 30, 25, and 28.  He's also got players ready to step in, and
> > has rebuilt the farm system.
>
> > Omar drafted Mike Pelfrey, Jonathon Niese, Bobby Parnell, Kevin Mulvey
> > (Santana deal), Joe Smith, and Daniel Murphy.  He has signed Fernando
> > Martinez, Wilmer Flores, and Jefrey Marte, all of whom have very
> > bright futures.
>
> > I keep reading on here how Omar has done nothing.  This is
> > shortsighted at best.  Look at that 2004 roster.  Other then Wright
> > and Reyes, once the Kazmir deal was made, did anybody really see a
> > future there?  Did anybody really think Jason Phillips and Kaz Matsui
> > and Richard Hidalgo and Eric Valent and Ty Wigginton and Matt Ginter
> > and Jae Seo were a real future?  I'm sorry, but Omar has made
> > mistakes, but to even suggest this team isn't in better shape then
> > when he took over and clearly moving in the right direction is
> > shortsighted at best.
>
> But you have to consider if things would have been similar now if
> Phillips were still GM. How would things be different with Phillips as
> GM than with Omar? Would Pedro, Beltran, and Wagner not taken the
> highest offer? Of course they would have. There's nothing special
> about offering a free agent the top dollar and then having him sign
> with your team. Would we have Fernando Maritnez? Probably not but then
> would Phillips have been stupid enough to trade Kazmir as Duquette
> did? Again, probably not. I dont' know if Phillips could have traded
> for Santana. Hard to say. But I do know Phillips' speciality as GM was
> building a strong bullpen.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

More importantly then that, what if Frank Cashen were still GM? Would
Frank Cashen have traded Kazmir for Zambrano? I would think he
definitely would not have! Why don't you go ask him?

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:55:03 -0700, jonathan wrote:

>
> More importantly then that, what if Frank Cashen were still GM? Would
> Frank Cashen have traded Kazmir for Zambrano? I would think he
> definitely would not have! Why don't you go ask him?

neither would have Joan Payson or Donald M Grant.



--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium