Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
days (from 20)

Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
Belgium 20 days, premium pay
Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
employer
Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
Chile 15 working days
Colombia 14 days
Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
Croatia 18 working days
Czech Republic 4 weeks
Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
Ecuador 14 days
Finland 35 days

France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
vacation time of any country in the world.

Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays

Hong Kong 7 days
Hungary 20 working days
Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
Israel 14 days
Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays

Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)

Korea, South 10 working days
Latvia 4 weeks
Mexico 7 days
Netherlands 4 weeks
New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
Norway 25 working days
Paraguay 14 days
Peru 14 days
Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
employment
Puerto Rico 15 days
Romania minimum 20 working days
Saudi Arabia 15 days
Singapore 7 days
South Africa 21 consecutive days
Spain 30 calendar days
Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
Switzerland 28 days
Taiwan 7 days
Tunisia 30 work days
Turkey 12 work days
Ukraine 24 calendar days
United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
United States (0) Zero
Uruguay 14 days
Venezuela 15 paid days
Vietnam 10 working days.


You can thank the republicans for this. Whose only real purpose in
life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
you.

Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?

in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, On Sun, 5 Oct(PDT), acd said about:
Minimum REQUIRED Vacation Time Around the World. Guess Who is the
Loser?


> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> days (from 20)
>
> Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> employer
> Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> Chile 15 working days
> Colombia 14 days
> Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> Croatia 18 working days
> Czech Republic 4 weeks
> Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> omsorgsdage (carer=92s leave).
> Ecuador 14 days
> Finland 35 days
>
> France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> English : Reduction of Working Time) =3D 7 weeks. The most significant
> vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> Hong Kong 7 days
> Hungary 20 working days
> Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> Israel 14 days
> Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> Korea, South 10 working days
> Latvia 4 weeks
> Mexico 7 days
> Netherlands 4 weeks
> New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> Norway 25 working days
> Paraguay 14 days
> Peru 14 days
> Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> employment
> Puerto Rico 15 days
> Romania minimum 20 working days
> Saudi Arabia 15 days
> Singapore 7 days
> South Africa 21 consecutive days
> Spain 30 calendar days
> Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> Switzerland 28 days
> Taiwan 7 days
> Tunisia 30 work days
> Turkey 12 work days
> Ukraine 24 calendar days
> United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> United States (0) Zero
> Uruguay 14 days
> Venezuela 15 paid days
> Vietnam 10 working days.
>
>
> You can thank the republicans for this.

Mostly Repubs, sure. But Dems are along for the ride.
If you fail to recognize this, you are little better
than a mindless partisan dittohead. Try more reality
and less feelsgoodism. Else we are doomed to fail.

> Whose only real purpose in life is to make sure
> the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> you.

Fact is, that's The American Way. We're all
Trickle-downers now. It used to be (pre-'80s)
that the Middle Class was thought of as the
backbone of America. Now we are thought of as
parasites, even by ourselves. You can hear this
on any Limbaugh show: "Ever get a job from a
"poor" man?" Etc. Now we "beg" for jobs and
tailwag Master when we get one. Ironic, huh?

>
> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives
> taught you THAT much by now?

One of the richest and oldest scams, as old as
government itself, is:
Private profit, socialized losses.
aka:
Private profit, socialized risks.
and those are just a subset of:
Private profit, socialized costs.

Rich Boy gets rich, but is too slick to be at risk.
We the taxpayer take his risk. Or, we the taxpayers
pay his costs, but he gets the profits. Sometimes
that's illegal. But often not.

These stealth socialists proudly call themselves "capitalists" and
"entrepreneurs", cuz one American game is, if you take
the risk, you deserve the benifits. ...in fact, in our system,
and in our mytholgy, if you take the risk, you deserve special
treatment such as superhuman corporate status...which further
isolates one from risk: your company may go broke, but you get
to keep your mansions and cars and if yer accountant is slick,
you can keep millions of your ill-gained dollars and your creditors can go
to hell. OJ Simpson comes to mind.
But he's small time. He only gets millionaire's protection.

In the housing crisis, at every step of the way from home buyer
to banker to bundler to the huge investors who bought these
bundles, - there was no risk. The home buyer could simply
walk away, and the rest had insurance.

Yep. Corporate socialists in free marketeers' clothing
are all over the place. And our mythology honors them.

"All that was required of them was a .---. .------------
primitive patriotism which could be / \ __ / ------
appealed to whenever it was necessary / / \( )/ -----
to make them accept longer working ////// ' \/ ` ---
hours or less wealth. And even //// / // : : ---
when they became discontented, // / / /` '--
as they sometimes did, their // //..\\
discontent led nowhere, =====/===========UU====UU=============
because, being with only Company ideas, '//||\\`
they could only focus it on Company ''``
scapegoats. The rebellious ones only fought Company enemies.
The source of these evils invariably escaped their notice."
[Apologies to G. Orwell, 1984]

"Fascism should more properly be called
corporatism, since it is the merger
of state and corporate power."
- Benito Mussolini, father of fascism.



The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.

acd wrote:


>
> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?

IS YOUR LIFE THAT BAD? MAN U MUST HAVE MADE SOME BAD CHOICES GROWING UP.

In article
<40286828-34af-4469-a2b3-2206854762a8@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
acd <power@manlymail.net> wrote:

> Minimum REQUIRED Vacation Time

Why in the hell should the government be telling businesses how much
vacation they have to give? A business shouldn't be required to pay
people for not working AT ALL. If people don't like it, they can find
somewhere else to work.

acd wrote:
> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> days (from 20)
>
> Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> employer
> Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> Chile 15 working days
> Colombia 14 days
> Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> Croatia 18 working days
> Czech Republic 4 weeks
> Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> Ecuador 14 days
> Finland 35 days
>
> France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> Hong Kong 7 days
> Hungary 20 working days
> Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> Israel 14 days
> Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> Korea, South 10 working days
> Latvia 4 weeks
> Mexico 7 days
> Netherlands 4 weeks
> New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> Norway 25 working days
> Paraguay 14 days
> Peru 14 days
> Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> employment
> Puerto Rico 15 days
> Romania minimum 20 working days
> Saudi Arabia 15 days
> Singapore 7 days
> South Africa 21 consecutive days
> Spain 30 calendar days
> Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> Switzerland 28 days
> Taiwan 7 days
> Tunisia 30 work days
> Turkey 12 work days
> Ukraine 24 calendar days
> United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> United States (0) Zero
> Uruguay 14 days
> Venezuela 15 paid days
> Vietnam 10 working days.
>
>
> You can thank the republicans for this. Whose only real purpose in
> life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> you.
>
> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?

Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
government to dictate vacation time?
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> acd wrote:
> > Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> > days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> > days (from 20)
>
> > Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> > Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> > Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> > employer
> > Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> > Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> > Chile 15 working days
> > Colombia 14 days
> > Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> > Croatia 18 working days
> > Czech Republic 4 weeks
> > Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> > omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> > Ecuador 14 days
> > Finland 35 days
>
> > France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> > English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> > vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> > Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> > working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> > Hong Kong 7 days
> > Hungary 20 working days
> > Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> > Israel 14 days
> > Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> > Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> > officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> > Korea, South 10 working days
> > Latvia 4 weeks
> > Mexico 7 days
> > Netherlands 4 weeks
> > New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> > Norway 25 working days
> > Paraguay 14 days
> > Peru 14 days
> > Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> > employment
> > Puerto Rico 15 days
> > Romania minimum 20 working days
> > Saudi Arabia 15 days
> > Singapore 7 days
> > South Africa 21 consecutive days
> > Spain 30 calendar days
> > Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> > Switzerland 28 days
> > Taiwan 7 days
> > Tunisia 30 work days
> > Turkey 12 work days
> > Ukraine 24 calendar days
> > United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> > United States (0) Zero
> > Uruguay 14 days
> > Venezuela 15 paid days
> > Vietnam 10 working days.
>
> > You can thank the republicans for this.  Whose only real purpose in
> > life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> > you.
>
> > Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>
> Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
> government to dictate vacation time?
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
business?
if business can fuck up and then ask for $700,000,000,000.from us then
we can ask for extra time off

Raymond O'Hara wrote:
> On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
>> acd wrote:
>>> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
>>> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
>>> days (from 20)
>>> Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
>>> Belgium 20 days, premium pay
>>> Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
>>> employer
>>> Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
>>> Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
>>> Chile 15 working days
>>> Colombia 14 days
>>> Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
>>> Croatia 18 working days
>>> Czech Republic 4 weeks
>>> Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
>>> omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
>>> Ecuador 14 days
>>> Finland 35 days
>>> France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
>>> English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
>>> vacation time of any country in the world.
>>> Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
>>> working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>>> Hong Kong 7 days
>>> Hungary 20 working days
>>> Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
>>> Israel 14 days
>>> Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>>> Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
>>> officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>>> Korea, South 10 working days
>>> Latvia 4 weeks
>>> Mexico 7 days
>>> Netherlands 4 weeks
>>> New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
>>> Norway 25 working days
>>> Paraguay 14 days
>>> Peru 14 days
>>> Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
>>> employment
>>> Puerto Rico 15 days
>>> Romania minimum 20 working days
>>> Saudi Arabia 15 days
>>> Singapore 7 days
>>> South Africa 21 consecutive days
>>> Spain 30 calendar days
>>> Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
>>> Switzerland 28 days
>>> Taiwan 7 days
>>> Tunisia 30 work days
>>> Turkey 12 work days
>>> Ukraine 24 calendar days
>>> United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
>>> United States (0) Zero
>>> Uruguay 14 days
>>> Venezuela 15 paid days
>>> Vietnam 10 working days.
>>> You can thank the republicans for this. Whose only real purpose in
>>> life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
>>> you.
>>> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>> Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
>> government to dictate vacation time?
>> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
> business?

Where do you get the idea that Government has the moral right to
interfere in the world of business.

> if business can fuck up and then ask for $700,000,000,000.from us then
> we can ask for extra time off.

Here you do have a point.

When this came up the Government should have told the business community
to fix the problem themselves.

All the Congress has done is to make things worse.

Believe me, I sincerely hope that the above statement is proven wrong.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

David Hartung wrote:
> Raymond O'Hara wrote:
>> On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
>>> acd wrote:
>>>> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
>>>> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
>>>> days (from 20)
>>>> Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
>>>> Belgium 20 days, premium pay
>>>> Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
>>>> employer
>>>> Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
>>>> Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
>>>> Chile 15 working days
>>>> Colombia 14 days
>>>> Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
>>>> Croatia 18 working days
>>>> Czech Republic 4 weeks
>>>> Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
>>>> omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
>>>> Ecuador 14 days
>>>> Finland 35 days
>>>> France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
>>>> English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
>>>> vacation time of any country in the world.
>>>> Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
>>>> working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>>>> Hong Kong 7 days
>>>> Hungary 20 working days
>>>> Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
>>>> Israel 14 days
>>>> Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>>>> Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
>>>> officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>>>> Korea, South 10 working days
>>>> Latvia 4 weeks
>>>> Mexico 7 days
>>>> Netherlands 4 weeks
>>>> New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
>>>> Norway 25 working days
>>>> Paraguay 14 days
>>>> Peru 14 days
>>>> Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
>>>> employment
>>>> Puerto Rico 15 days
>>>> Romania minimum 20 working days
>>>> Saudi Arabia 15 days
>>>> Singapore 7 days
>>>> South Africa 21 consecutive days
>>>> Spain 30 calendar days
>>>> Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
>>>> Switzerland 28 days
>>>> Taiwan 7 days
>>>> Tunisia 30 work days
>>>> Turkey 12 work days
>>>> Ukraine 24 calendar days
>>>> United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
>>>> United States (0) Zero
>>>> Uruguay 14 days
>>>> Venezuela 15 paid days
>>>> Vietnam 10 working days.
>>>> You can thank the republicans for this. Whose only real purpose in
>>>> life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
>>>> you.
>>>> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>>> Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
>>> government to dictate vacation time?
>>> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>> if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>> where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
>> business?
>
> Where do you get the idea that Government has the moral right to
> interfere in the world of business.


The same reason the government doesn't let business employ 10 year olds
for 80 hour weeks.

D'uh.

When are you going to figure out that when you let a profit oriented
organization regulate itself, the people are the ones that lose
out...just as they just lost billions of their hard earned dollars to
save the world from an economic crisis.

<plonk>

..

--

We must change the way we live,
or the climate will do it for us.


www.ipcc.ch/

On Oct 5, 5:47 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > acd wrote:
> > > Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> > > days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> > > days (from 20)
>
> > > Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> > > Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> > > Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> > > employer
> > > Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> > > Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> > > Chile 15 working days
> > > Colombia 14 days
> > > Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> > > Croatia 18 working days
> > > Czech Republic 4 weeks
> > > Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> > > omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> > > Ecuador 14 days
> > > Finland 35 days
>
> > > France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> > > English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> > > vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> > > Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> > > working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> > > Hong Kong 7 days
> > > Hungary 20 working days
> > > Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> > > Israel 14 days
> > > Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> > > Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> > > officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> > > Korea, South 10 working days
> > > Latvia 4 weeks
> > > Mexico 7 days
> > > Netherlands 4 weeks
> > > New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> > > Norway 25 working days
> > > Paraguay 14 days
> > > Peru 14 days
> > > Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> > > employment
> > > Puerto Rico 15 days
> > > Romania minimum 20 working days
> > > Saudi Arabia 15 days
> > > Singapore 7 days
> > > South Africa 21 consecutive days
> > > Spain 30 calendar days
> > > Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> > > Switzerland 28 days
> > > Taiwan 7 days
> > > Tunisia 30 work days
> > > Turkey 12 work days
> > > Ukraine 24 calendar days
> > > United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> > > United States (0) Zero
> > > Uruguay 14 days
> > > Venezuela 15 paid days
> > > Vietnam 10 working days.
>
> > > You can thank the republicans for this.  Whose only real purpose in
> > > life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> > > you.
>
> > > Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>
> > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
> > government to dictate vacation time?
> > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
> business?
> if business can fuck up and then ask for $700,000,000,000.from us then
> we can ask for extra time off- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Brilliant Ray then they can lose money and lay off stiffs like you.
It's comical who know nothings like you figure you'll just tell
business how it's gonna be with no thoughts to the ramifications it
might have.

In article
<7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a121a2@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:

> > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > time?

> if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.

Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer from moronic
big-government nonsense like that.

It's not the proper role of government to interfere in private contracts
the way you seem to want it to. If your boss doesn't give you enough
time off, go work somewhere else. Simple solution.

> where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> exists to serve business?

Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to pay people to
not work is "serving business"?

clouddreamer wrote:

> When are you going to figure out that when you let a profit oriented
> organization regulate itself, the people are the ones that lose
> out...just as they just lost billions of their hard earned dollars to
> save the world from an economic crisis.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, the current crisis is the fault of the
government as well as the private sector. By government, I mean *all*
the politicians, not just those of one party.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

CalC wrote:

> Brilliant Ray then they can lose money and lay off stiffs like you.

They can't lay me off.

I own my own company.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

> Raymond O'Hara
>
> if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.

If as we've been told, that Americans can no longer expect
to work for the same company until retirement and we'll all
be bouncing from job to job over the course of our "work
life", then maybe we need some kinda vacation legislation?

It doesn't seem fair that a worker's accumulated vacation time
is zeroed when they leave one company for another, so perhaps
vacation time ought to instead be based on "time within the work
force" regardless of how many and which companies they worked
for over the years?

Of course a problem with this would be that employers would
then hire younger workers with fewer vacation days over older
workers with more accumulated vacation time.

On Oct 5, 7:15 pm, "Ed Stasiak" <estas...@att.net> wrote:
> > Raymond O'Hara
>
> > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>
> If as we've been told, that Americans can no longer expect
> to work for the same company until retirement and we'll all
> be bouncing from job to job over the course of our "work
> life", then maybe we need some kinda vacation legislation?
>
> It doesn't seem fair that a worker's accumulated vacation time
> is zeroed when they leave one company for another, so perhaps
> vacation time ought to instead be based on "time within the work
> force" regardless of how many and which companies they worked
> for over the years?
>
> Of course a problem with this would be that employers would
> then hire younger workers with fewer vacation days over older
> workers with more accumulated vacation time.

employment at will has a meaning and people should understand that
when accepting or quiting a job. There are jobs you can keep for 30
years but it might lag in pay or benefits..when we (me included) leave
for more/better you take risks and accept good and bad.

Raymond O'Hara wrote:

> if business can fuck up and then ask for $700,000,000,000.from us then
> we can ask for extra time off

I don't see your Socialist rear end out there pushing for such a bill.

On Oct 5, 7:00 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> clouddreamer wrote:
> > When are you going to figure out that when you let a profit oriented
> > organization regulate itself, the people are the ones that lose
> > out...just as they just lost billions of their hard earned dollars to
> > save the world from an economic crisis.
>
> As I have repeatedly pointed out, the current crisis is the fault of the
> government as well as the private sector. By government, I mean *all*
> the politicians, not just those of one party.


Nice dodge. Somebody points out that the US government already
"interferes" with their meddling child labor laws, and in response to
that you change the issue. Nice try, but a failure. Try edumacating
yourself and look up The Fair Labor Standards Act before you spout off
about the uselessness of government intervention on behalf of the work
force, or the non existence of it. Clearly, you haven't a clue what
you're talking about.

W

On Oct 5, 3:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article
> <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>  "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > > time?
> > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>
> Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer from moronic
> big-government nonsense like that.
>
> It's not the proper role of government to interfere in private contracts
> the way you seem to want it to. If your boss doesn't give you enough
> time off, go work somewhere else. Simple solution.
>
> > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> > exists to serve business?
>
> Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to pay people to
> not work is "serving business"?

We have a government mandated 40-hour work week, child labor laws and
other worker protections, so why not have a mandatory minimum vacation
days and holidays? We,The People, are the government and if we want a
shorter work week and more paid holidays, we should have them.

Business interests cried and tore their hair out when the 40-hour work
week was proposed, but they adapted and thrived. The same thing would
happen if we mandated a 32-hour workweek and a minimum 6 weeks' paid
vacation. Hell, I'd take a minimum 6 weeks of vacation with only half
pay; the point is that we need more time off - all of us - if for no
other reason than that American workers have increased productivity
steadily, yet wages have remained stagnant. We deserve a few more
percs for our efforts.

Significant chunks of time off allow a worker to re-charge, spend some
quality time with the family and come back refreshed. If government
served the people the way it serves business, we'd have that time
off. Some businesses would object, but some businesses stand to gain:
vacation spots and the businesses around them, home improvement
centers, airlines, theaters. Anywhere people spend money when they're
not working would benefit.

MLW

On Oct 5, 9:14 am, acd <po...@manlymail.net> wrote:
> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> days (from 20)
>
> Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> employer
> Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> Chile 15 working days
> Colombia 14 days
> Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> Croatia 18 working days
> Czech Republic 4 weeks
> Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> Ecuador 14 days
> Finland 35 days
>
> France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> Hong Kong 7 days
> Hungary 20 working days
> Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> Israel 14 days
> Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> Korea, South 10 working days
> Latvia 4 weeks
> Mexico 7 days
> Netherlands 4 weeks
> New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> Norway 25 working days
> Paraguay 14 days
> Peru 14 days
> Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> employment
> Puerto Rico 15 days
> Romania minimum 20 working days
> Saudi Arabia 15 days
> Singapore 7 days
> South Africa 21 consecutive days
> Spain 30 calendar days
> Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> Switzerland 28 days
> Taiwan 7 days
> Tunisia 30 work days
> Turkey 12 work days
> Ukraine 24 calendar days
> United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> United States (0) Zero
> Uruguay 14 days
> Venezuela 15 paid days
> Vietnam 10 working days.
>
> You can thank the republicans for this.  Whose only real purpose in
> life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> you.
>
> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?

Too much of a complete loser to earn your vacation from your employer,
eh? Continue wailing :)

On Oct 5, 3:23 pm, clouddreamer <S...@Climate.change.ca> wrote:
> David Hartung wrote:
> > Raymond O'Hara wrote:
> >> On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> >>> acd wrote:
> >>>> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> >>>> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> >>>> days (from 20)
> >>>> Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> >>>> Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> >>>> Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> >>>> employer
> >>>> Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> >>>> Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> >>>> Chile 15 working days
> >>>> Colombia 14 days
> >>>> Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> >>>> Croatia 18 working days
> >>>> Czech Republic 4 weeks
> >>>> Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> >>>> omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> >>>> Ecuador 14 days
> >>>> Finland 35 days
> >>>> France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> >>>> English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> >>>> vacation time of any country in the world.
> >>>> Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> >>>> working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
> >>>> Hong Kong 7 days
> >>>> Hungary 20 working days
> >>>> Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> >>>> Israel 14 days
> >>>> Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
> >>>> Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> >>>> officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
> >>>> Korea, South 10 working days
> >>>> Latvia 4 weeks
> >>>> Mexico 7 days
> >>>> Netherlands 4 weeks
> >>>> New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> >>>> Norway 25 working days
> >>>> Paraguay 14 days
> >>>> Peru 14 days
> >>>> Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> >>>> employment
> >>>> Puerto Rico 15 days
> >>>> Romania minimum 20 working days
> >>>> Saudi Arabia 15 days
> >>>> Singapore 7 days
> >>>> South Africa 21 consecutive days
> >>>> Spain 30 calendar days
> >>>> Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> >>>> Switzerland 28 days
> >>>> Taiwan 7 days
> >>>> Tunisia 30 work days
> >>>> Turkey 12 work days
> >>>> Ukraine 24 calendar days
> >>>> United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> >>>> United States (0) Zero
> >>>> Uruguay 14 days
> >>>> Venezuela 15 paid days
> >>>> Vietnam 10 working days.
> >>>> You can thank the republicans for this.  Whose only real purpose in
> >>>> life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> >>>> you.
> >>>> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
> >>> Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
> >>> government to dictate vacation time?
> >>> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**-Hide quoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> >> where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
> >> business?
>
> > Where do you get the idea that Government has the moral right to
> > interfere in the world of business.
>
> The same reason the government doesn't let business employ 10 year olds
> for 80 hour weeks.
>
> D'uh.
>
> When are you going to figure out that when you let a profit oriented
> organization regulate itself, the people are the ones that lose
> out...just as they just lost billions of their hard earned dollars to
> save the world from an economic crisis.
>
> <plonk>

A plonk? For that?! LOL, your hysteria's running wild these days, huh?

>
>   ..
>
> --
>
> We must change the way we live,
>     or the climate will do it for us.
>
>    www.ipcc.ch/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> CalC
>> Ed Stasiak
>>
>> It doesn't seem fair that a worker's accumulated vacation time
>> is zeroed when they leave one company for another, so perhaps
>> vacation time ought to instead be based on "time within the work
>> force" regardless of how many and which companies they worked
>> for over the years?
>
> employment at will has a meaning and people should understand that
> when accepting or quiting a job. There are jobs you can keep for 30
> years but it might lag in pay or benefits..when we (me included) leave
> for more/better you take risks and accept good and bad.

As I grow older and wiser, I've found that the survival-of-the-
fittest free market philosophy that I used to admire and try to
live up to, is in most cases a crock of shit.

The fact is that without a tight leash on them, businessmen will
cheat whoever, whenever and however they can and have no
concern for their stock holders, employees, nation and humanity
in general.

I see the vacation/holiday issue as a moral one and I believe that
control of vacation time (among various other factors related to
employment) ought to be taken completely out of the hands of
employers.

If the only thing of value is money, then nothing has any value
if it stands in the way of getting more money. That's a suicidal
philosophy that I don't want to live by.

So, move someplace else.

On Oct 5, 6:48 pm, CalC <calcarpent...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 5, 5:47 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
>
> > > acd wrote:
> > > > Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> > > > days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> > > > days (from 20)
>
> > > > Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> > > > Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> > > > Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> > > > employer
> > > > Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> > > > Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> > > > Chile 15 working days
> > > > Colombia 14 days
> > > > Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> > > > Croatia 18 working days
> > > > Czech Republic 4 weeks
> > > > Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer-
> > > > omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> > > > Ecuador 14 days
> > > > Finland 35 days
>
> > > > France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> > > > English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> > > > vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> > > > Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> > > > working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> > > > Hong Kong 7 days
> > > > Hungary 20 working days
> > > > Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> > > > Israel 14 days
> > > > Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> > > > Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> > > > officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> > > > Korea, South 10 working days
> > > > Latvia 4 weeks
> > > > Mexico 7 days
> > > > Netherlands 4 weeks
> > > > New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> > > > Norway 25 working days
> > > > Paraguay 14 days
> > > > Peru 14 days
> > > > Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> > > > employment
> > > > Puerto Rico 15 days
> > > > Romania minimum 20 working days
> > > > Saudi Arabia 15 days
> > > > Singapore 7 days
> > > > South Africa 21 consecutive days
> > > > Spain 30 calendar days
> > > > Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> > > > Switzerland 28 days
> > > > Taiwan 7 days
> > > > Tunisia 30 work days
> > > > Turkey 12 work days
> > > > Ukraine 24 calendar days
> > > > United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> > > > United States (0) Zero
> > > > Uruguay 14 days
> > > > Venezuela 15 paid days
> > > > Vietnam 10 working days.
>
> > > > You can thank the republicans for this.  Whose only real purpose in
> > > > life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> > > > you.
>
> > > > Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>
> > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
> > > government to dictate vacation time?
> > > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
> > business?
> > if business can fuck up and then ask for $700,000,000,000.from us then
> > we can ask for extra time off- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Brilliant Ray then they can lose money and lay off stiffs like you.
> It's comical who know nothings like you figure you'll just tell
> business how it's gonna be with no thoughts to the ramifications it
> might have.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

good and then tell them they can't sell their products here.
we owe them nothing, you seem to think businesses give a fuck about
the country.
wall street has sold us out to china in the name of profits.
they make sneakers in asia for $0.50 and sell them here for $150.
they lay off whomever they can.
this shit about if workers get paid decently they'll lay people off is
a joke, anybody they don't need is already gone.

On Oct 5, 6:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article
> <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>  "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > > time?
> > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>
> Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer from moronic
> big-government nonsense like that.
>
> It's not the proper role of government to interfere in private contracts
> the way you seem to want it to. If your boss doesn't give you enough
> time off, go work somewhere else. Simple solution.
>
> > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> > exists to serve business?
>
> Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to pay people to
> not work is "serving business"?

read the constitution sometime.
there is nothing at all about business in it.

On Oct 5, 9:03 pm, "bvall...@aol.com" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote:
> So, move someplace else.

You're obviously a deep thinker, a real patriot that does us all right
proud. I can just hear you back in 1964 after the civil rights bill
was passed: "if you don't like your lot in life in this country, then
you can go back to Africa, nigger." Yeah, that's about the extent to
which your mindless logic will take you.

Say, did it ever occur to you that someone like the OP (acd) might
actually want to stay in this country and make it a better place at
the same time (by way of his vote)?

W

Wretch wrote:
> On Oct 5, 9:03 pm, "bvall...@aol.com" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote:
>> So, move someplace else.
>
> You're obviously a deep thinker, a real patriot that does us all right
> proud. I can just hear you back in 1964 after the civil rights bill
> was passed: "if you don't like your lot in life in this country, then
> you can go back to Africa, nigger." Yeah, that's about the extent to
> which your mindless logic will take you.

THE 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS BILL PASSED BECAUSE OF REPUBLICANS AND IN SPITE OF
DEMOCRATS. ESP ALGORE filibustered it.

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 09:14:12 -0700 (PDT), acd <power@manlymail.net>
wrote:

>Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
>days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
>days (from 20)

Every worker in the United States should be guaranteed the same
number of vacation days that George W. Bush got.

Escpecially where he could have prevented 9/11 by taking a few less
vacation days.

On Oct 5, 11:35 am, Fred <f...@fr.ed> wrote:
> acd wrote:
>
> > Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>
> IS YOUR LIFE THAT BAD?  MAN U MUST HAVE MADE SOME BAD CHOICES GROWING UP.

Our group's idiot barometer has chimed in.

Bad choices, such as voting for Reagan when you're a working class
person. Reagan worked very hard to destroy unions, as did Bush Sr.

I was listening to a podcast of McCain's acceptance speech at the RNC
convention in St. Paul. McCain was listing off his qualifications for
being a maverick. He mentioned how he fought corruption of both
Republican and Democrat politicians, fought lobbyists, the tobacco
industry, and etc. Each one of these fights got a halfhearted cheer
from the Republican delegates. But when he mentioned how he fought
union bosses, the audience came alive.

You see, Republican leaders and elite hate unions, hate workers.

On Oct 5, 9:14 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 5, 6:48 pm, CalC <calcarpent...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 5, 5:47 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
>
> > > > acd wrote:
> > > > > Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> > > > > days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> > > > > days (from 20)
>
> > > > > Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> > > > > Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> > > > > Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> > > > > employer
> > > > > Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> > > > > Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> > > > > Chile 15 working days
> > > > > Colombia 14 days
> > > > > Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> > > > > Croatia 18 working days
> > > > > Czech Republic 4 weeks
> > > > > Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> > > > > omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> > > > > Ecuador 14 days
> > > > > Finland 35 days
>
> > > > > France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> > > > > English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> > > > > vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> > > > > Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> > > > > working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> > > > > Hong Kong 7 days
> > > > > Hungary 20 working days
> > > > > Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> > > > > Israel 14 days
> > > > > Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> > > > > Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> > > > > officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> > > > > Korea, South 10 working days
> > > > > Latvia 4 weeks
> > > > > Mexico 7 days
> > > > > Netherlands 4 weeks
> > > > > New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> > > > > Norway 25 working days
> > > > > Paraguay 14 days
> > > > > Peru 14 days
> > > > > Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> > > > > employment
> > > > > Puerto Rico 15 days
> > > > > Romania minimum 20 working days
> > > > > Saudi Arabia 15 days
> > > > > Singapore 7 days
> > > > > South Africa 21 consecutive days
> > > > > Spain 30 calendar days
> > > > > Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> > > > > Switzerland 28 days
> > > > > Taiwan 7 days
> > > > > Tunisia 30 work days
> > > > > Turkey 12 work days
> > > > > Ukraine 24 calendar days
> > > > > United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> > > > > United States (0) Zero
> > > > > Uruguay 14 days
> > > > > Venezuela 15 paid days
> > > > > Vietnam 10 working days.
>
> > > > > You can thank the republicans for this.  Whose only real purpose in
> > > > > life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> > > > > you.
>
> > > > > Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>
> > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility ofthe
> > > > government to dictate vacation time?
> > > > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**-Hidequotedtext -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
> > > business?
> > > if business can fuck up and then ask for $700,000,000,000.from us then
> > > we can ask for extra time off- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Brilliant Ray then they can lose money and lay off stiffs like you.
> > It's comical who know nothings like you figure you'll just tell
> > business how it's gonna be with no thoughts to the ramifications it
> > might have.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> good and then tell them they can't sell their products here.
> we owe them nothing, you seem to think businesses give a fuck about
> the country.
> wall street has sold us out to china in the name of profits.
> they make sneakers in asia for $0.50 and sell them here for $150.
> they lay off whomever they can.
> this shit about if workers get paid decently they'll lay people off is
> a joke, anybody they don't need is already gone.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

you are a commie tool alright.

In article
<71a52fd3-d8c6-4f5b-8a85-bee096752dc1@v30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 5, 6:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >  "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:

> > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > > > time?

> > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> >
> > Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer
> > from moronic big-government nonsense like that.
> >
> > It's not the proper role of government to interfere in
> > private contracts the way you seem to want it to. If
> > your boss doesn't give you enough time off, go work
> > somewhere else. Simple solution.
> >
> > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> > > exists to serve business?
> >
> > Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to
> > pay people to not work is "serving business"?
>
> read the constitution sometime.
> there is nothing at all about business in it.

Exactly. Think about it.

In article
<d344a798-6d3a-4736-a1e3-114aab66c5a3@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
walkmar@easystreet.net wrote:

> On Oct 5, 3:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >  "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > > > time?
> > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> >
> > Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer
> > from moronic big-government nonsense like that.
> >
> > It's not the proper role of government to interfere in
> > private contracts the way you seem to want it to. If your
> > boss doesn't give you enough time off, go work somewhere
> > else. Simple solution.
> >
> > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> > > exists to serve business?
> >
> > Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to
> > pay people to not work is "serving business"?
>
> We have a government mandated 40-hour work week, child
> labor laws and other worker protections, so why not have
> a mandatory minimum vacation days and holidays?

Why not have government-mandated casual Fridays with a mandatory
once-a-month Hawaiian shirt day? Or require companies to throw birthday
parties for every employee and fund a summer picnic, too?

Why is any of that any of the government's business?

If I have a job that needs doing and you want to do it for me at the
price I'm willing to pay, then that should be that. I certainly don't
need the government stepping in and forcing me to pay you for *not*
working. If I want to offer that as an incentive to get you to work for
me over my competition, fine. But it's not the proper role of government
to force me to pay people to not work. My business isn't a social
welfare project. It's a business.

> We,The People, are the government and if we want a
> shorter work week and more paid holidays, we should have them.

"You the People as the Government" can mandate that *for* the government
if you like but you don't have the right to impose that on private
contracts between private parties.

> the point is that we need more time off - all of us

No, "we" don't. Speak for yourself. I actually like my job. I look
forward to going to work and when I have time off, I usually get bored
pretty quick.

The fact that you're either lazy or stuck in a job you don't like is
hardly a justification for yet another massive intrusion by the
government into the affairs of private individuals.

> Significant chunks of time off allow a worker to re-charge,
> spend some quality time with the family and come back refreshed.

That's a choice for the business to make. If there's actually a benefit
to giving people time off, then they will likely take it. If not, then
they won't. But they don't need some government bureaucrat deciding
things like that for them. And if you don't like the amount of vacation
time you're allotted, then quit and find a job that meets your needs.
But stop looking to the government to "pass a law" to satisfy your every
whim.

On 2008-10-05 22:21:15 -0400, VV@noemail.com said:

> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 09:14:12 -0700 (PDT), acd <power@manlymail.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
>> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
>> days (from 20)
>
> Every worker in the United States should be guaranteed the same
> number of vacation days that George W. Bush got.

Our GNP isn't low enough already?

> Escpecially where he could have prevented 9/11 by taking a few less
> vacation days.

I suppose it's possible, but I'd be more inclined to think it was the
partisan muleheadedness more than the vacation days that sealed that
particular envelope...

In article <aUbGk.356126$J72.95025@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
"Ed Stasiak" <estasiak@att.net> wrote:

> > Raymond O'Hara
> >
> > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>
> If as we've been told, that Americans can no longer expect
> to work for the same company until retirement and we'll all
> be bouncing from job to job over the course of our "work
> life", then maybe we need some kinda vacation legislation?
>
> It doesn't seem fair that a worker's accumulated vacation time
> is zeroed when they leave one company for another, so perhaps
> vacation time ought to instead be based on "time within the work
> force" regardless of how many and which companies they worked
> for over the years?

Or maybe people ought to stop looking at the perks employers have given
over the years to make working for them over their competition more
appealing as inalienable rights.

That's the problem with all these benefits and perks. A few decades ago,
some employers started offering health insurance as a perk to make
themselves more appealing. Then their competition did the same so they
made their coverage better. And so on. And now we've reached the point
that what was once a perk has now somehow morphed into the expectation
that if I pay you to do a job for me, that somehow legally and morally
obligates me to pay your medical bills (and those of your spouse and
children, too).

Why not make employers pay for their employees' car insurance and home
insurance and flood insurance, too? Or their grocery bills, and water
and electric? Or their kids' educations? Oh, wait, that's what their
salary is for, isn't it? To pay the bills?

In article <bodGk.331777$vn1.257977@fe03.news.easynews.com>,
"Ed Stasiak" <estasiak@att.net> wrote:

> I see the vacation/holiday issue as a moral one and I believe that
> control of vacation time (among various other factors related to
> employment) ought to be taken completely out of the hands of
> employers.

The idea that I should be forced AT ALL to pay you to *not* work is
ridiculous on its face.

On Oct 5, 11:14 am, acd <po...@manlymail.net> wrote:
> Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> days (from 20)
>
> Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> employer
> Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law
> Chile 15 working days
> Colombia 14 days
> Costa Rica 2 weeks after 1 year employment.
> Croatia 18 working days
> Czech Republic 4 weeks
> Denmark 6 weeks, of which 5 days can be "sold" back to the employer -
> omsorgsdage (carer’s leave).
> Ecuador 14 days
> Finland 35 days
>
> France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in
> English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant
> vacation time of any country in the world.
>
> Germany 4 weeks (24 "workable" days, i.e. Mo to Sa, even if the
> working week is Mo to Fri), plus 9 to 13 bank holidays
>
> Hong Kong 7 days
> Hungary 20 working days
> Ireland 20 days, plus 9 public holidays
> Israel 14 days
> Italy 20-30 days plus 12 public holidays
>
> Japan including sick leave: 18 days paid time off;
> officially, five weeks (in reaction to the karoshi problem)
>
> Korea, South 10 working days
> Latvia 4 weeks
> Mexico 7 days
> Netherlands 4 weeks
> New Zealand 4 weeks as of April 1, 2007
> Norway 25 working days
> Paraguay 14 days
> Peru 14 days
> Poland 20 business days, 26 business days after 10 years of
> employment
> Puerto Rico 15 days
> Romania minimum 20 working days
> Saudi Arabia 15 days
> Singapore 7 days
> South Africa 21 consecutive days
> Spain 30 calendar days
> Sweden 25-32 working days, depending on age
> Switzerland 28 days
> Taiwan 7 days
> Tunisia 30 work days
> Turkey 12 work days
> Ukraine 24 calendar days
> United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> United States (0) Zero
> Uruguay 14 days
> Venezuela 15 paid days
> Vietnam 10 working days.
>
> You can thank the republicans for this.  Whose only real purpose in
> life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> you.
>
> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?

You forgot to mention why US corporations are not required to offer
vacations.
"Because it would be bad for business..."
"Because they wouldn't be able to effectively "compete". "
These are the sort of reasons usually cited in arguments about this
sort of subject.
What they always fail to mention, and what many people fail to fathom
is exactly who this "competition" is.
Our competition is EACH OTHER.
We compete with other Americans.
The real competition is between the corporations and the workers.
Guess who's winning...

in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, Raymond O'Hara said:
> On Oct 5, 5:35=A0pm, David Hartung wrote:
> > acd wrote:

> > > Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> > > days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> > > days (from 20)
> >
> > > Austria 35 days, for elderly employees 42 days
> > > Belgium 20 days, premium pay
> > > Brazil 30 consecutive days, of which 10 can be sold back to the
> > > employer
> > > Bulgaria minimum 20 working days
> > > Canada 10 working days, determined by provincial law

...................snip

> > > Ukraine 24 calendar days
> > > United Kingdom 20 calendar days, plus 8 bank holidays
> > > United States (0) Zero
> > > Uruguay 14 days

........

> > > You can thank the republicans for this. = A0 Whose only real purpose in
> > > life is to make sure the rich stay that way- at the expense of all of
> > > you.
> >
> > > Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
> >
> > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the responsibility of the
> > government to dictate vacation time?

Considering the above context and our wealth, the US Constitution.
"to provide for the general welfare..."
In that context, wage slavery and general economic coersion is as
unconstitutional as violent, blackmail, or any other form of coersion.
Guess what "unalianable" means? ...it means they cant be transfered
or sold. That is, some contracts are Constitutionally forbidden.

> > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.

Voters were lied into Iraq too. "Want" and desire are
only true when the inputs are real. ...for example
economic theory *depends* on consumers having perfect
knowledge.

> where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government exists to serve
> business?

From the news?

> if business can fuck up and then ask for $700,000,000,000.from us then
> we can ask for extra time off

Can we? You sure?
Are you confusing the positive with the normitive?
The "is" with the "aught?"


The insane twist the facts to fit their world view.
The rational change their world view to fit the facts.

On Oct 5, 9:37 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article
> <d344a798-6d3a-4736-a1e3-114aab66c...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>  walk...@easystreet.net wrote:
> > On Oct 5, 3:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > >  "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> > > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > > > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > > > > time?
> > > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>
> > > Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer
> > > from moronic big-government nonsense like that.
>
> > > It's not the proper role of government to interfere in
> > > private contracts the way you seem to want it to. If your
> > > boss doesn't give you enough time off, go work somewhere
> > > else. Simple solution.
>
> > > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> > > > exists to serve business?
>
> > > Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to
> > > pay people to not work is "serving business"?
>
> > We have a government mandated 40-hour work week, child
> > labor laws and other worker protections, so why not have
> > a mandatory minimum vacation days and holidays?
>
> Why not have government-mandated casual Fridays with a mandatory
> once-a-month Hawaiian shirt day? Or require companies to throw birthday
> parties for every employee and fund a summer picnic, too?
>
> Why is any of that any of the government's business?

In my early working days, women were required to wear dresses, hose
and heels; changes in societal norms took care of that pretty well.
But women were also barred from good employment simply because of
their sex and African-Americans were barred from good employment
because of their color. It took government intervention to remedy
that, although there were lots of objections for reasons that sound a
lot like your argument.

>
> If I have a job that needs doing and you want to do it for me at the
> price I'm willing to pay, then that should be that. I certainly don't
> need the government stepping in and forcing me to pay you for *not*
> working. If I want to offer that as an incentive to get you to work for
> me over my competition, fine. But it's not the proper role of government
> to force me to pay people to not work. My business isn't a social
> welfare project. It's a business.

And as a business, you might like to have each of your employees work
12-hour days 7 days a week, but you can't, at least not without
compensating them handsomely for it and becoming a very unpopular
boss. You might like to be able to ignore worker safety, especially
if it slows production. If workers had waited for the benevolence of
the employers to provide humane working conditions and schedules and
some time off, we'd still be working those schedules today. Your
business is not a right, it's a privilege given you by our form of
government.

In our adversarial system, your goal as a business is to pay as little
as possible for as much work as possible; conversely, the worker's
goal is to provide as little work as possible for as much pay as
possible. The government ideally has the role of a referee, making
sure you don't abuse your employees and your employees don't abuse
you. However, businesses are inherently more powerful than individual
workers, which is why we have been stuck with a 40-hour work week for
so long.


>
> > We,The People, are the government and if we want a
> > shorter work week and more paid holidays, we should have them.
>
> "You the People as the Government" can mandate that *for* the government
> if you like but you don't have the right to impose that on private
> contracts between private parties.

The government imposes conditions on private contracts all the time.

>
> > the point is that we need more time off - all of us
>
> No, "we" don't. Speak for yourself. I actually like my job. I look
> forward to going to work and when I have time off, I usually get bored
> pretty quick.

I like my job, too, but I would like it better if I could get
completely and utterly away from it for a meaningful length of time -
and about 6 weeks ought to do it.

>
> The fact that you're either lazy or stuck in a job you don't like is
> hardly a justification for yet another massive intrusion by the
> government into the affairs of private individuals.

Laziness and job satisfaction don't enter into it. Most people like
their jobs and most people work very hard at home, taking care of
children, working on home improvement projects, volunteering, or any
number of other worthwhile things. If your life outside of work is so
dreary and devoid of interesting activities as to drive you screaming
back to your job, then I feel very sorry for you. With a little more
time off, you might become a more well-rounded person.

>
> > Significant chunks of time off allow a worker to re-charge,
> > spend some quality time with the family and come back refreshed.
>
> That's a choice for the business to make. If there's actually a benefit
> to giving people time off, then they will likely take it. If not, then
> they won't. But they don't need some government bureaucrat deciding
> things like that for them. And if you don't like the amount of vacation
> time you're allotted, then quit and find a job that meets your needs.
> But stop looking to the government to "pass a law" to satisfy your every
> whim.- Hide quoted text -
>

No one is looking for government to satisfy every whim, and what a
weasly cop-out of an argument that was. Workers are entitled to some
of the benefits promised each generation in return for their hard work
and increased productivity. Worker benefits have not only not
increased in the last 40 years or so, they have been driven back by
increasing health care costs, by the exportation of jobs overseas, by
malfeasence and greed at the CEO level, by the weakening of labor
unions and by the whittling away of manufacturing in this country.
Someone is making money out of all this and it's not workers.

A work day sucks up much more than 8 hours of actual paid labor when
you include preparing for work, travelling to & from work, other
obligations associated with work (such as meetings and seminars,
planning) and the fact that work time is not available for any other
use. An average work week for a straight 40-hour worker actually
consumes more like 50-60 hours in time that is not available for other
things, and all of that extra time is uncompensated.

Any sort of government mandated minimum vacation standards would be
phased in and small businesses would likely get some sort of tax
breaks to help them make the adjustment. If the U.S. is truly going
to live up to its potential as an advanced, civilized society, its
workers must have the free time to really have a healthy home and
personal life.

MLW










> - Show quoted text -

On Oct 5, 9:21 pm, V...@noemail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 09:14:12 -0700 (PDT), acd <po...@manlymail.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Argentina 14 calendar days (from 0 to 5 years seniority), 21 calendar
> >days (from 5 to 10), 28 calendar days (from 10 to 20) and 35 calendar
> >days (from 20)
>
> Every worker in the United States should be guaranteed the same
> number of vacation days that George W. Bush got.  

Great, and just like Bush, every worker in the United Staes should be
required to take their work with them on all vacations. They should
never be out of touch of their bosses, or the current situations going
on at work. Each worker should be required to have someone from work
following them around 24/7 while on vacation with a cell phone in case
their boss needed him to do work on his vacation. Every worker should
be required to sit through daily situation reports while on vacation
on why the break room ran out of coffee, which contractors are
replacing ceiling tiles in the conference room and the probability
that the mail boy is going to steal some office supplies.

I don't know about you, but that's not my idea of a 'vacation'.

(or are you under the mistaken impression that the President has to be
sitting at his desk to get work accomplished? Do you actually
believe that the desk in the White House houses a Cray computer
running the Master Control Program?...end of line)

> Escpecially where he could have prevented 9/11 by taking a few less
> vacation days.

There are many things that could have prevented 9/11, and in some ways
it couldn't have been prevented at all. The majority of ways it could
have been prevented did not include Bush.

I see your BDS has kicked into high gear, please seek help.

Yol Bolsun,
Grendel.

"I'm not cynical, just experienced."

On Oct 5, 9:16 pm, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 5, 6:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >  "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > > > time?
> > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>
> > Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer from moronic
> > big-government nonsense like that.
>
> > It's not the proper role of government to interfere in private contracts
> > the way you seem to want it to. If your boss doesn't give you enough
> > time off, go work somewhere else. Simple solution.
>
> > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> > > exists to serve business?
>
> > Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to pay people to
> > not work is "serving business"?
>
> read the constitution sometime.
> there is nothing at all about business in it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

........nothing about vactions either.

The tragedy of balding men with long hair wrote:
> On Oct 5, 11:35 am, Fred <f...@fr.ed> wrote:
>> acd wrote:
>>
>>> Hasn't the reality of your miserable lives taught you THAT much by now?
>> IS YOUR LIFE THAT BAD? MAN U MUST HAVE MADE SOME BAD CHOICES GROWING UP.
>
> Our group's idiot barometer has chimed in.
>
> Bad choices, such as voting for Reagan when you're a working class
> person. Reagan worked very hard to destroy unions, as did Bush Sr.
>
> I was listening to a podcast of McCain's acceptance speech at the RNC
> convention in St. Paul. McCain was listing off his qualifications for
> being a maverick. He mentioned how he fought corruption of both
> Republican and Democrat politicians, fought lobbyists, the tobacco
> industry, and etc. Each one of these fights got a halfhearted cheer
> from the Republican delegates. But when he mentioned how he fought
> union bosses, the audience came alive.
>
> You see, Republican leaders and elite hate unions, hate workers.
SO I SEE THE BIG IDIOT BAROMETER PIPES IN ON HOW HIS LIFE IS SO BAD
BECAUSE OF THE CHOICES HE MADE IN LIFE. NO SYMPATHY HERE LOSER. GO TELL
OPRAH.

In article
<4ec8cddf-cc89-42b3-a090-4cc56dca5325@p31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
walkmar@easystreet.net wrote:

> On Oct 5, 9:37 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <d344a798-6d3a-4736-a1e3-114aab66c...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  walk...@easystreet.net wrote:
> > > On Oct 5, 3:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > >  "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> > > > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> > > > > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> > > > > > time?
> > > > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> >
> > > > Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer
> > > > from moronic big-government nonsense like that.
> >
> > > > It's not the proper role of government to interfere in
> > > > private contracts the way you seem to want it to. If your
> > > > boss doesn't give you enough time off, go work somewhere
> > > > else. Simple solution.
> >
> > > > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> > > > > exists to serve business?
> >
> > > > Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to
> > > > pay people to not work is "serving business"?
> >
> > > We have a government mandated 40-hour work week, child
> > > labor laws and other worker protections, so why not have
> > > a mandatory minimum vacation days and holidays?
> >
> > Why not have government-mandated casual Fridays with
> > a mandatory once-a-month Hawaiian shirt day? Or require
> > companies to throw birthday parties for every employee
> > and fund a summer picnic, too?
> >
> > Why is any of that any of the government's business?
>
> In my early working days, women were required to wear dresses, hose
> and heels; changes in societal norms took care of that pretty well.
> But women were also barred from good employment simply because of
> their sex and African-Americans were barred from good employment
> because of their color. It took government intervention to remedy
> that, although there were lots of objections for reasons that sound a
> lot like your argument.

Yes, that's always the response. Basically, they say that if the
government can regulate business in terms of civil rights, then it ought
to be able to do whatever it wants with the private sector, regulate
everything at its whim. I don't know what to say to people who either
cannot or will not recognize the difference in both degree and kind
between the issues of rampant racism and vacation time.

> > If I have a job that needs doing and you want to do it for me at the
> > price I'm willing to pay, then that should be that. I certainly don't
> > need the government stepping in and forcing me to pay you for *not*
> > working. If I want to offer that as an incentive to get you to work for
> > me over my competition, fine. But it's not the proper role of government
> > to force me to pay people to not work. My business isn't a social
> > welfare project. It's a business.
>
> And as a business, you might like to have each of your employees work
> 12-hour days 7 days a week, but you can't, at least not without
> compensating them handsomely for it and becoming a very unpopular
> boss.

Funny how the very government you want to intrude into private business
affairs to stop this sort of thing from happening does this very thing
to its employees. There was a time right after 9-11 when I worked four
months straight-- no days off-- with 12-hour shifts. And I was working
for the federal government.

> In our adversarial system, your goal as a business is to pay as little
> as possible for as much work as possible; conversely, the worker's
> goal is to provide as little work as possible for as much pay as
> possible.

That may be *your* goal as a worker but I've never had a job where I saw
it as my goal to provide as little work as possible. If someone pays me
to do a job, I do my best to do it the best I can.

If you're right, that's a fundamental problem with the American
workforce-- the idea that their work ethic is so lacking that their
basic attitude is merely to see how little work they can do while still
receiving a paycheck.

> > > We,The People, are the government and if we want a
> > > shorter work week and more paid holidays, we should
> > > have them.
> >
> > "You the People as the Government" can mandate that
> > *for* the government if you like but you don't have
> > the right to impose that on private contracts between
> > private parties.
>
> The government imposes conditions on private contracts all the time.

And I'm saying this is over the line. Both legally and morally.

> > > the point is that we need more time off - all of us
> >
> > No, "we" don't. Speak for yourself. I actually like my
> > job. I look forward to going to work and when I have
> > time off, I usually get bored pretty quick.
>
> I like my job, too, but I would like it better if I could get
> completely and utterly away from it for a meaningful length
> of time - and about 6 weeks ought to do it.

Fine. Take an unpaid leave of absence. Why do you think it's your right
to have me pay you to go off and play for over a month? You want to
play? Do it on your own dime.

> > The fact that you're either lazy or stuck in a job you
> > don't like is hardly a justification for yet another
> > massive intrusion by the government into the affairs
> > of private individuals.
>
> Laziness and job satisfaction don't enter into it.

You just said up above that they do enter into it!

You claimed that the average worker's basic attitude is to see how
little work they can get away with and still be paid.

That's the very definition of lazy.

Most people like
> their jobs and most people work very hard at home, taking care of
> children, working on home improvement projects, volunteering, or any
> number of other worthwhile things. If your life outside of work is so
> dreary and devoid of interesting activities as to drive you screaming
> back to your job, then I feel very sorry for you.

Wow. So just because I've managed to find a job I enjoy where I get paid
for doing something I'd be doing anyway, then my life is "dreary" and
I'm "screaming back to my job"?

You might want to reign in the hyperbole, chief.

> With a little more time off, you might become a more
> well-rounded person.

Okay, Kreskin. Whatever you say.

> > > Significant chunks of time off allow a worker to re-charge,
> > > spend some quality time with the family and come back refreshed.
> >
> > That's a choice for the business to make. If there's actually a benefit
> > to giving people time off, then they will likely take it. If not, then
> > they won't. But they don't need some government bureaucrat deciding
> > things like that for them. And if you don't like the amount of vacation
> > time you're allotted, then quit and find a job that meets your needs.
> > But stop looking to the government to "pass a law" to satisfy your every
> > whim.

> No one is looking for government to satisfy every whim

That's exactly what you're doing. "I want more play time! My boss won't
let me! There oughta be a law!"

> Workers are entitled to some
> of the benefits promised each generation

Who is making these promises? What makes them in any way legally binding?

No one is making you any promises. You're just taking your own desires
and calling them "promises" because that makes your argument seem less
self-centered and more palatable.

> A work day sucks up much more than 8 hours of actual paid labor when
> you include preparing for work, travelling to & from work

So now you want to get paid for taking a shower in the morning and
driving to your building? Holy shit. What's next? You want to get paid
every time you have a dream involving work?

> If the U.S. is truly going to live up to its potential
> as an advanced, civilized society,

And now we get to this other old saw: "If you don't give me what I want,
then America is not a civilized society."

[Civilized does not equal socialist.]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 00:25:53 -0700, walkmar wrote:

> Any sort of government mandated minimum vacation standards would be
> phased in and small businesses would likely get some sort of tax breaks
> to help them make the adjustment. If the U.S. is truly going to live up
> to its potential as an advanced, civilized society, its workers must
> have the free time to really have a healthy home and personal life.

I don't see this as meaning we would have to work fewer hours. A popular
schedule in nursing is three 12-hour days and then 4 days off. Companies
that have gone to four 10-hour days and three days off have found it
immensely popular among their employees. And, though most probably
wouldn't agree with me, I've always thought that six 13-hour days on and
8 days off would be fantastic. Imagine having 8 contiguous days off every
2 weeks!

But that was back when I worked in a cubicle. The job I have now is
12-14 grueling hours a day, six days a week, but it does at least allow
me the freedom to decide for myself how much unpaid vacation I
want. Each summer I do a thousand-mile backpacking trip or do a little
world traveling, then the rest of the year I work 70 hours/week. Lazy?
Despite having the summer off, my annual work hours total about 20%
HIGHER than the person who works 40 hours/week and gets only 2 weeks a
year of vacation.

The problem isn't so much the number of hours we work, as how those
hours are arranged.

Thanatos wrote:
> In article
> <40286828-34af-4469-a2b3-2206854762a8@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> acd <power@manlymail.net> wrote:
>
>> Minimum REQUIRED Vacation Time
>
> Why in the hell should the government be telling businesses how much
> vacation they have to give? A business shouldn't be required to pay
> people for not working AT ALL. If people don't like it, they can find
> somewhere else to work.

Companies can afford to provide fringe benefits when a country is
prosperous. When a country is sinking to third world status as rapidly as
the US, thanks to the punks on Wall Street, there will be no place to work
that offers vacations or any other fringe benefits. But people like you
will still be thumping your sagging chests, loudly and proudly...

On Oct 6, 4:41 am, Grendel <wstho...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Escpecially where he could have prevented 9/11 by taking a few less
> > vacation days.
>
> There are many things that could have prevented 9/11, and in some ways
> it couldn't have been prevented at all.  The majority of ways it could
> have been prevented did not include Bush.


Sure it does, but the more relevant Bush would be George H.W. Bush.
And in case you've been under a rock your entire life, G.W. Bush's
government was warned early in 2001 about the imminent possibility of
suicide terrorism with airplanes. I quote from the following article:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/18/intelligence.hearings/

"In July 2001, the report says, a briefing prepared for senior
government officials warned of "a significant terrorist attack against
U.S. and/or Israeli interests in the coming weeks. The attack will be
spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties ... (it) will
occur with little or no warning."

And yes, Clinton shares in the blame.

W

"Crash" <see.my.sig@theBeach.edu> wrote in message
news:BaadnaHUZMqyOXTVnZ2dnUVZ_tPinZ2d@pghconnect.com...
>
> Considering the above context and our wealth, the US Constitution.
> "to provide for the general welfare..."
> In that context, wage slavery and general economic coersion is as
> unconstitutional as violent, blackmail, or any other form of coersion.
> Guess what "unalianable" means? ...it means they cant be transfered
> or sold. That is, some contracts are Constitutionally forbidden.
>

I can't think of a contract that is "forbidden" by the Constitution. The
only contract that would specifically be void under the Constitution is one
for slavery (although there is a lot of legislation under the authority of
the 13th amendment). In fact, afaik it is the only part of the Constitution
that restricts the conduct of individuals. Well, treason is specifically
mentioned, too, but slavery is the only offense forbidden by one individual
against another.

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-E3DF61.00245606102008@news.giganews.com...
> In article
> <71a52fd3-d8c6-4f5b-8a85-bee096752dc1@v30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 5, 6:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
>
>> > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
>> > > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
>> > > > time?
>
>> > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
>> >
>> > Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer
>> > from moronic big-government nonsense like that.
>> >
>> > It's not the proper role of government to interfere in
>> > private contracts the way you seem to want it to. If
>> > your boss doesn't give you enough time off, go work
>> > somewhere else. Simple solution.
>> >
>> > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
>> > > exists to serve business?
>> >
>> > Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to
>> > pay people to not work is "serving business"?
>>
>> read the constitution sometime.
>> there is nothing at all about business in it.
>
> Exactly. Think about it.

Well, really, the Commerce Clause is "about business" and underlies an
enormous body of Federal law.

In article <gO2dnYQuZ6aX53fVnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Mason Barge" <masonbarge@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-E3DF61.00245606102008@news.giganews.com...
> > In article
> > <71a52fd3-d8c6-4f5b-8a85-bee096752dc1@v30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Oct 5, 6:50 pm, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> > In article
> >> > <7d56a8db-e6f4-424f-8979-b81670a12...@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >> > "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Oct 5, 5:35 pm, David Hartung <da...@lemagroup.us> wrote:
> >
> >> > > > Where did you get the idiotic idea that it is the
> >> > > > responsibility of the government to dictate vacation
> >> > > > time?
> >
> >> > > if the voters want mandated vacation time we can have it.
> >> >
> >> > Not really. We have a Constitution that serves as buffer
> >> > from moronic big-government nonsense like that.
> >> >
> >> > It's not the proper role of government to interfere in
> >> > private contracts the way you seem to want it to. If
> >> > your boss doesn't give you enough time off, go work
> >> > somewhere else. Simple solution.
> >> >
> >> > > where did you ever get the idiotic idea the government
> >> > > exists to serve business?
> >> >
> >> > Where did you get the idea that not forcing businesses to
> >> > pay people to not work is "serving business"?
> >>
> >> read the constitution sometime.
> >> there is nothing at all about business in it.
> >
> > Exactly. Think about it.
>
> Well, really, the Commerce Clause is "about business" and
> underlies an enormous body of Federal law.

Yep, after the Supreme Court twisted the clause beyond any semblance of
what the Founders intended when it ruled in Wickard v Filburn that a
person's mere existence affects interstate commerce, they pretty much
threw out the concept of a limited government and effectively repealed
the 10th Amendment by judicial fiat.

In article <bNsGk.3526$yr3.708@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS \(Retired\)"
<cleanin'_the_stables@fakeranch.tx> wrote:

> Thanatos wrote:
> > In article
> > <40286828-34af-4469-a2b3-2206854762a8@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > acd <power@manlymail.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Minimum REQUIRED Vacation Time
> >
> > Why in the hell should the government be telling businesses how much
> > vacation they have to give? A business shouldn't be required to pay
> > people for not working AT ALL. If people don't like it, they can find
> > somewhere else to work.
>
> Companies can afford to provide fringe benefits when a country is
> prosperous.

The fact that a company *can* afford something hardly equates to a
justification for the government forcing them to provide it.

> When a country is sinking to third world status as rapidly as
> the US, thanks to the punks on Wall Street, there will be no place to work
> that offers vacations or any other fringe benefits. But people like you
> will still be thumping your sagging chests, loudly and proudly...

So you think the US is sinking to 3rd World status and your solution is
to have the government force the business sector to pay people not to
work? Yeah, you're a real economic genius.

On Oct 6, 2:14 pm, Wretch <wret...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 4:41 am, Grendel <wstho...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > Escpecially where he could have prevented 9/11 by taking a few less
> > > vacation days.
>
> > There are many things that could have prevented 9/11, and in some ways
> > it couldn't have been prevented at all.  The majority of ways it could
> > have been prevented did not include Bush.
>
> Sure it does, but the more relevant Bush would be George H.W. Bush.
> And in case you've been under a rock your entire life, G.W. Bush's
> government was warned early in 2001 about the imminent possibility of
> suicide terrorism with airplanes.  I quote from the following article:http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/18/intelligence.hearings/
>
> "In July 2001, the report says, a briefing prepared for senior
> government officials warned of "a significant terrorist attack against
> U.S. and/or Israeli interests in the coming weeks. The attack will be
> spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties ... (it) will
> occur with little or no warning."

Yes, and they started getting that warning in 1998. The FAA said it
was, 'unlikely' and the FBI didn't follow up (under who, again?).

And the warning the month before 9/11 was only of a possible
highjacking (out of how many such warnings the President gets each
year?). It did not mention the possibility of the planes being used
as weapons.

And there was another report (amoung how many?) in July 2001 of "
significant terrorist attack against U.S. and/or Israeli interests in
the coming weeks. The attack will be spectacular and designed to
inflict mass casualties ... (it) will occur with little or no
warning." But, again in this instance, no mention of terrorist
possibly using airplanes.

The evidence of terrorist highjacking planes, and using them as bombs,
was no more appearent in 2001 than it was in 1998. Definitly not
enough to ground flights en mass. Can you imagine the lawsuits and
liberals screaming about their 'civil rights' then?

> And yes, Clinton shares in the blame.

I agree, as does Bush, but the decimation of our intelligence
gathering capability lies right on the head of Clinton. Bush should
have built it back up much faster. But that still doesn't gurantee
all the necessary information would have come to light.

It happened. No amount of hindsight will stop that.

Yol Bolsun,
Grendel.

"I'm not cynical, just experienced."

It's bad enough that these retarded assholes insist on posting this
shit where it doesnt belong (Hence: a baseball group), the schmucks
that reply TO THEM also crosspost it back.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, PEOPLE!!!!
____________________________________________________
Peace,
Franke Carlino
LETS GO METS!!!
GEAUX SAINTS

Jorge Duhbya Arbusto, POTUS (Retired) wrote:
> Thanatos wrote:
>> In article
>> <40286828-34af-4469-a2b3-2206854762a8@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>> acd <power@manlymail.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Minimum REQUIRED Vacation Time
>> Why in the hell should the government be telling businesses how much
>> vacation they have to give? A business shouldn't be required to pay
>> people for not working AT ALL. If people don't like it, they can find
>> somewhere else to work.
>
> Companies can afford to provide fringe benefits when a country is
> prosperous. When a country is sinking to third world status as rapidly as
> the US, thanks to the punks on Wall Street, there will be no place to work
> that offers vacations or any other fringe benefits. But people like you
> will still be thumping your sagging chests, loudly and proudly...

Just out of curiosity, how does th