Another great catch!

On Sep 28, 4:25 pm, Mary1973 <mlaw...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
> Another great catch!

A routine grab with a degree of difficulty exaggerated by Mut shills
who were wishing they could compare it to the catch in the 2006 NLCS,
which the Muts lost by the way. It's amusing how Mut announcers are
quick to jump all over guys like Jim Edmonds for supposedly hot
dogging it and making routine plays seem spectacular. Beltran does
precisely this as he loafs after balls on the warning track, as does
Chavez, as evidenced by his mundane grab this afternoon. Yet, no
analogous criticism for Mut outfielders from the hometown shills.
This is damning proof that all Mut announcers are nothing but a bunch
of homers, a criticism that Mut fans love to make of other teams'
announcers.

W

"Mary1973" <mlawlor@nj.rr.com> wrote in message
news:c77fa2cf-210a-4c00-b3d5-40b4b99ee541@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Another great catch!

Too bad he can't pitch!

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:25:09 -0700, Mary1973 wrote:

>
> Another great catch!

another pathetic 0-4

I wish they'd dump this guy


--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:47:01 -0400, Element wrote:

>> Another great catch!
>
> Too bad he can't pitch!

he hits like a pitcher

--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

On Sep 28, 5:40 pm, Ruben <ru...@www2.mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:25:09 -0700, Mary1973 wrote:
>
> > Another great catch!
>
> another pathetic 0-4
>
> I wish they'd dump this guy
>

He'll be back. He's not a free agent until after next season. Plus,
he brings the 'defense and athleticism' that Omar often values over
actual baseball skills. The question is, will enough work be done to
actually have a real bench or are we going to be subjected to more
Marlon Anderson, Angel Pagan, backup catchers who can't buy a hit, and
assorted other players who bring no offense of any kind to the table.
There are only so many defensive replacements you can have on a
roster.

Sadly Marlon Anderson is signed through next year too . . .

I'm convinced that had the Mets made the playoffs, Ramon Martinez
would have been the starting 2B and probably given a 2 year contract.
If the Mets not making the playoffs prevents this, then thank goodness
the Mets got knocked out.

"jonathan" <jmerin77@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:136ca47b-32be-4e5f-aa3c-8342025eac78@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 28, 5:40 pm, Ruben <ru...@www2.mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:25:09 -0700, Mary1973 wrote:
>
> > Another great catch!
>
> another pathetic 0-4
>
> I wish they'd dump this guy
>

He'll be back. He's not a free agent until after next season. Plus,
he brings the 'defense and athleticism' that Omar often values over
actual baseball skills. The question is, will enough work be done to
actually have a real bench or are we going to be subjected to more
Marlon Anderson, Angel Pagan, backup catchers who can't buy a hit,

----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know -- if you look at Castro, Cancel and Casanova, all three could
hit. Omar certainly had a _starting_ catcher who couldn't hit, but I'm not
too sure about the back-ups.

----------------------------------------------------------------


and
assorted other players who bring no offense of any kind to the table.
There are only so many defensive replacements you can have on a
roster.

Sadly Marlon Anderson is signed through next year too . . .

-------------------------------------------------------------

It's a Catch-22, as bench players like Anderson have already left the
organization before because they weren't offered a two-year contract. So,
Omar's damned if he gives him the two years and damned if the guy goes
somewhere else to get it. If nothing more, at least they DL'd Anderson for
some mystery ailment (read: inability to hit). I have to think that if
Tatis stayed healthy, Anderson would have had an extremely limited, if any,
role down the stretch.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I'm convinced that had the Mets made the playoffs, Ramon Martinez
would have been the starting 2B and probably given a 2 year contract.
If the Mets not making the playoffs prevents this, then thank goodness
the Mets got knocked out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I certainly believe Martinez would have been the starting second baseman --
which, in itself, is a testimony to how beat up the team was in September.
They were down to their fourth-string leftfielders and fourth-string second
baseman. They were without their closer and their #2 starter. And, among
their regulars, their number-three hitter regressed from elite to ordinary
against RHP; their clean-up hitter spent half the season MIA; and their
bullpen was worn down and largely ineffective. When you take all this
together, it becomes apparent that they were getting by with, at best, a
four-man offense and a four-man pitching staff. It's amazing that they got
where they did with this.

On Sep 29, 7:10 am, "Micheal Ray" <m...@spamspam.com> wrote:
> "jonathan" <jmeri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:136ca47b-32be-4e5f-aa3c-8342025eac78@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 28, 5:40 pm, Ruben <ru...@www2.mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:25:09 -0700, Mary1973 wrote:
>
> > > Another great catch!
>
> > another pathetic 0-4
>
> > I wish they'd dump this guy
>
> He'll be back.  He's not a free agent until after next season.  Plus,
> he brings the 'defense and athleticism' that Omar often values over
> actual baseball skills.  The question is, will enough work be done to
> actually have a real bench or are we going to be subjected to more
> Marlon Anderson, Angel Pagan, backup catchers who can't buy a hit,
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know -- if you look at Castro, Cancel and Casanova, all three could
> hit.  Omar certainly had a _starting_ catcher who couldn't hit, but I'mnot
> too sure about the back-ups.
>

Castro can certainly hit, but he can't stay healthy. I'm sorry, but
Cancel can't hit. Casanova can hit a little bit. The problem is that
none of those guys can play 100 games . . . and the guy who can play
100 games (Schneider), can't hit. So you end up with a cumulative .
703 OPS from your catchers. Now, to be fair, that was still good
enough for 15th in MLB because catcher is something of a black hole in
terms of offense right now, but I would think if the Mets want some
offensive consistency they have to find a way to upgrade that position
at least somewhat.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> and
> assorted other players who bring no offense of any kind to the table.
> There are only so many defensive replacements you can have on a
> roster.
>
> Sadly Marlon Anderson is signed through next year too . . .
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's a Catch-22, as bench players like Anderson have already left the
> organization before because they weren't offered a two-year contract.  So,
> Omar's damned if he gives him the two years and damned if the guy goes
> somewhere else to get it.  If nothing more, at least they DL'd Andersonfor
> some mystery ailment (read: inability to hit).  I have to think that if
> Tatis stayed healthy, Anderson would have had an extremely limited, if any,
> role down the stretch.
>

Here's the thing though . . .

When you have a veteran player . . . let's use the term journeyman,
and they come to your team and have a hot couple of months, it does
not necessarily make sense that they will repeat that success.
Generally speaking, veteran players get worse. Generally speaking,
young players get better. I'd rather have a bench with guys like
Argenis Reyes, who I'm not a fan of, then Marlon Anderson because I
know what Anderson is, and he's likely to be even worse next year.
Reyes, at least, has a chance to get better. To me, when Omar gives
contracts to guys like Jose Valentine, Marlon Anderson, Damion Easley,
and such, he is banking on guys continuing a resurgence that is
unlikely at best and he is handcuffing his roster because you can't
just send these guys down to the minors if they're not playing well.
I am very afraid he'll make the same mistake to Fernando Tatis. If
Tatis will accept an NRI, then that's great. If he'll take a one year
deal at low money, then that's ok. If somebody else wants to give
Tatis a 2 year deal, then have a nice day Fernando. The odds are that
Tatis will be closer to the player he was the majority of the season
and not the guy that tore it up in July.

> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm convinced that had the Mets made the playoffs, Ramon Martinez
> would have been the starting 2B and probably given a 2 year contract.
> If the Mets not making the playoffs prevents this, then thank goodness
> the Mets got knocked out.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I certainly believe Martinez would have been the starting second baseman --  
> which, in itself, is a testimony to how beat up the team was in September..

I agree. I would also argue he should have been the starting second
baseman. But I will also argue that that would have caused him to get
a guaranteed multi-year contract for next season. I believe that with
these veterans who find these resurgences, you have to keep them
hungry. When these guys are playing for jobs they tend to play a lot
better then when they have a guaranteed contract to sit on. It's
probably not even a conscious thing. I know that's harsh, but the
goal here is to win baseball games, not be nice to people.

> They were down to their fourth-string leftfielders and fourth-string second
> baseman.  They were without their closer and their #2 starter.  And, among
> their regulars, their number-three hitter regressed from elite to ordinary
> against RHP;  their clean-up hitter spent half the season MIA; and their
> bullpen was worn down and largely ineffective.  When you take all this
> together, it becomes apparent that they were getting by with, at best, a
> four-man offense and a four-man pitching staff.  It's amazing that theygot
> where they did with this.

All of that is completely true. The 'four-man offense' just continues
to point out how relying on veteran players tends to create situations
where you need extraordinary depth. Now, Church was a fluke, and you
can't fault Omar for that. By rights, it should have been a 'five-man
offense'. I think if the Mets can find a position for Murphy, now you
have a 'six-man offense'. Of course, if that position is one that is
already occupied (such as 1B), then you're back down to five. To me,
you have to address LF, 2B, and C. I think 2B is the toughest because
I'm not an Orlando Hudson guy and it's going to depend how much
Castillo salary Omar has to eat to move him. My guess is they
basically pull a Matsui and pay him to play elsewhere. I'm not a huge
Orlando Hudson guy, but he's about all there is on the free agent
market.

Do you think Murphy can play 2B, because I don't. Do you think Murphy
is an everyday OF because I don't think that either. I think he's a
1B . . . more in the mode of somebody like Jim Thome or Jeff Bagwell
or Kevin Youkilis defensively. The other thing is, you have Reese
Havens, Jefrey Marte and Wilmer Flores in the minors. The odds are
one, if not all, of the three will change positions and 2B could come
out of there. Marte and Flores are a couple of years from ready but
if Havens heals, there's a decent change you could see him in
Citifield (sounds weird) sometime next year.

As for C, I think the Mets should call the Rangers and see if they
could do something like Heilman and Parnell for Ramirez or Teagarden.
Otherwise, I think it has to be a trade. I don't think you can count
on Castro and I think the other guys are roster filler. I think
Schneider should be a backup catcher / mentor at this stage in his
career.

In terms of LF, to me, the free agent market is either too old
(Ibanez), too DH-ish (Dunn), or too crazy (Milton Bradley). Do you
think Fernando Martinez is ready? Vladimir Guerrero is a free agent
but he played less then 100 games in the OF this year. I think he
needs to be able to DH to save his knees. I'd like to see a veteran
RH hitting OF on a decent 2 year deal where Fernando Martinez could
get 300 at bats next year and the veteran could get 300 and you'd have
a decent platoon. To me, Casey Blake is interesting.

I think the solution to the bullpen is to find a closer first, even if
you have to overpay. Then, once you have that, you keep Joe Smith,
and you invite as many guys as you possibly can, similar to what the
Mets did in 2005, and you see who sticks. You look at Stokes and
Parnell since you control them and they have stuff. You look at Kunz
again. I think they'll find a way to move Schoeneweis. I think
they'll non-tender Feliciano and Sanchez. I think they'll trade
Heilman. You need to get some more guys out there who can miss bats.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:30:35 -0700, jonathan wrote:

> All of that is completely true. The 'four-man offense' just continues
> to point out how relying on veteran players tends to create situations
> where you need extraordinary depth. Now, Church was a fluke, and you
> can't fault Omar for that.

If I'm not mistaken, and I'm admittedly too lazy to look, Church has had
injury problems in the past although this clearly looks flukish.

The thing is, you don't know what he is going to look like coming back
next year. It took Tommy Agee a year to recover from a beaning and Dickie
Thorn never came back.

> By rights, it should have been a 'five-man
> offense'. I think if the Mets can find a position for Murphy, now you
> have a 'six-man offense'. Of course, if that position is one that is
> already occupied (such as 1B), then you're back down to five.

I think he can be a 2nd baseman and we'll find out soon enough. But if he
moves to 1st base, then Delgado and Murphy becomes a platoon, which I
think is actually fine because it gives the team depth, which is its own
problem worthy of correcting. The catch is that is still does, then who
plays 2nd base again? It might be wise also to have Wright play some time
at 1st base because Murphy can play third and this is more depth, similar
to the situaiton with Jack Robinson, Gil Hodges, Cox and Gillmain the OF
for the old Dodgers. They moved a lot of player around and Robinson
played the OF, 3rd, 2nd and a lot of 1st as needed.

> To me,
> you have to address LF, 2B, and C. I think 2B is the toughest because
> I'm not an Orlando Hudson guy and it's going to depend how much
> Castillo salary Omar has to eat to move him. My guess is they
> basically pull a Matsui and pay him to play elsewhere. I'm not a huge
> Orlando Hudson guy, but he's about all there is on the free agent
> market.

They need to avoid the FA market for the next 2 seasons unless a Santana
like plum comes on the market and frankly, that isn't happening this
season.

>
> Do you think Murphy can play 2B, because I don't. Do you think Murphy
> is an everyday OF because I don't think that either. I think he's a
> 1B . . . more in the mode of somebody like Jim Thome or Jeff Bagwell
> or Kevin Youkilis defensively. The other thing is, you have Reese
> Havens, Jefrey Marte and Wilmer Flores in the minors. The odds are
> one, if not all, of the three will change positions and 2B could come
> out of there. Marte and Flores are a couple of years from ready but
> if Havens heals, there's a decent change you could see him in
> Citifield (sounds weird) sometime next year.

Where do you get this information? Information on the Minor Leagues seems
so hard to get.



>
> As for C, I think the Mets should call the Rangers and see if they could
> do something like Heilman and Parnell for Ramirez or Teagarden.
> Otherwise, I think it has to be a trade.

Can Delgado catch ;) How about Evans? I think they need to do this
internally. They need to get a hold of a prospect and get the gear on him
and push him through the system fast if they can handle the course
defensively.

either that or call Vance Wilson and Todd Pratt.


> I don't think you can count on
> Castro and I think the other guys are roster filler. I think Schneider
> should be a backup catcher / mentor at this stage in his career.
>

Catchers, by and large, don't catch more than a 100 games a year. They
should let Castro catchas much as he wants to.


> In terms of LF, to me, the free agent market is either too old (Ibanez),
> too DH-ish (Dunn), or too crazy (Milton Bradley). Do you think Fernando
> Martinez is ready?

I'm in favor of Dunn who can be thrown into the 1st/OF situation and give
a lot more depth.

> Vladimir Guerrero is a free agent but he played less
> then 100 games in the OF this year.

Very Interesting. I'm a huge fan of Guerrero. He's 32 and your right, he
played only 99 games in the OF. Then he had an OPS of 131, the lowest in
his career since his rookie year.


This is a scouting call. If my scouts say I can get 100 games of Guerrero
and I can aquire Dunn, I'd do both and let Murphy take a shot at 1st and
the OF as well.

It's stocking up on OFs, but the hell with it. They haven't been able to
get any decent production out of these positions in a decade and the bench
sucks so I'd do it if I could. If Murph can play some second as well,
more better. At least on good days you'd have an OF or Vlad, Beltran and
Dunn.

Lets see the Phillies match that.


> I think he needs to be able to DH
> to save his knees. I'd like to see a veteran RH hitting OF on a decent
> 2 year deal where Fernando Martinez could get 300 at bats next year and
> the veteran could get 300 and you'd have a decent platoon. To me, Casey
> Blake is interesting.
>

choke choke

> I think the solution to the bullpen is to find a closer first,

I think this is a classic error. The guy to find first would be a setup
man, and then someone who can throw 3 effective innings every 3 days.

They need to look at starters and see who can convert like Eckersly,
Inganhouser, Agullera, Kerry Wood, and Dave Riggetti.

Where is Mark Prior these days? Jeff Francis? Dotrel Willis? Justin
Verlander? Jeff Weaver?

>even if
> you have to overpay. Then, once you have that, you keep Joe Smith, and
> you invite as many guys as you possibly can, similar to what the Mets
> did in 2005, and you see who sticks. You look at Stokes and Parnell
> since you control them and they have stuff. You look at Kunz again. I
> think they'll find a way to move Schoeneweis. I think they'll
> non-tender Feliciano and Sanchez. I think they'll trade Heilman. You
> need to get some more guys out there who can miss bats.

--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

On Sep 28, 4:25 pm, Mary1973 <mlaw...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
> Another great catch!

You fail.

Yet AGAIN, he mis-judged the ball's flight off the bat and had to nake
another running stab catch.

How do you NOT SEE THAT? He does it EVERY TIME.

On Sep 28, 4:46 pm, Wretch <wret...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 4:25 pm, Mary1973 <mlaw...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Another great catch!
>
> A routine grab with a degree of difficulty exaggerated by Mut shills
> who were wishing they could compare it to the catch in the 2006 NLCS,
> which the Muts lost by the way.  It's amusing how Mut announcers are
> quick to jump all over guys like Jim Edmonds for supposedly hot
> dogging it and making routine plays seem spectacular.  Beltran does
> precisely this as he loafs after balls on the warning track, as does
> Chavez, as evidenced by his mundane grab this afternoon.  Yet, no
> analogous criticism for Mut outfielders from the hometown shills.
> This is damning proof that all Mut announcers are nothing but a bunch
> of homers, a criticism that Mut fans love to make of other teams'
> announcers.
>
> W

Correct. 5 stars.

It's funny how The Yankees announcers are actually even-tempered,
jovial, balanced and will actually criticise Yankee players... but
because Sterling makes those boisterous HR calls (which he also does
when THE OPPOSING TEAM HITS A HOME RUN) he's somehow a "homer".

The Mets announcers are probably the biggest shills in sports
broadcasting history- especially the radio announcers.

"jonathan" <jmerin77@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f8d1c7ab-430a-4e0b-9d7a-6319c80c7ef7@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 29, 7:10 am, "Micheal Ray" <m...@spamspam.com> wrote:
> "jonathan" <jmeri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:136ca47b-32be-4e5f-aa3c-8342025eac78@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 28, 5:40 pm, Ruben <ru...@www2.mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:25:09 -0700, Mary1973 wrote:
>
> > > Another great catch!
>
> > another pathetic 0-4
>
> > I wish they'd dump this guy
>
> He'll be back. He's not a free agent until after next season. Plus,
> he brings the 'defense and athleticism' that Omar often values over
> actual baseball skills. The question is, will enough work be done to
> actually have a real bench or are we going to be subjected to more
> Marlon Anderson, Angel Pagan, backup catchers who can't buy a hit,
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know -- if you look at Castro, Cancel and Casanova, all three
> could
> hit. Omar certainly had a _starting_ catcher who couldn't hit, but I'm not
> too sure about the back-ups.
>

Castro can certainly hit, but he can't stay healthy. I'm sorry, but
Cancel can't hit.

--------------------------------------------------------

Admittedly, it's a small sample size, but Cancel was outstanding off the
bench this year: .364/.462/.455. That sounds like a back-up catcher who can
hit.

---------------------------------------------------------



Casanova can hit a little bit. The problem is that
none of those guys can play 100 games . . . and the guy who can play
100 games (Schneider), can't hit. So you end up with a cumulative .
703 OPS from your catchers. Now, to be fair, that was still good
enough for 15th in MLB because catcher is something of a black hole in
terms of offense right now, but I would think if the Mets want some
offensive consistency they have to find a way to upgrade that position
at least somewhat.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> and
> assorted other players who bring no offense of any kind to the table.
> There are only so many defensive replacements you can have on a
> roster.
>
> Sadly Marlon Anderson is signed through next year too . . .
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's a Catch-22, as bench players like Anderson have already left the
> organization before because they weren't offered a two-year contract. So,
> Omar's damned if he gives him the two years and damned if the guy goes
> somewhere else to get it. If nothing more, at least they DL'd Anderson for
> some mystery ailment (read: inability to hit). I have to think that if
> Tatis stayed healthy, Anderson would have had an extremely limited, if
> any,
> role down the stretch.
>

Here's the thing though . . .

When you have a veteran player . . . let's use the term journeyman,
and they come to your team and have a hot couple of months, it does
not necessarily make sense that they will repeat that success.
Generally speaking, veteran players get worse. Generally speaking,
young players get better. I'd rather have a bench with guys like
Argenis Reyes, who I'm not a fan of, then Marlon Anderson because I
know what Anderson is, and he's likely to be even worse next year.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

While I tend to agree with this generally, I'm not sure it holds true for
pinch-hitting, which tends to favor brains over brawn. To be sure, there
aren't many rookies who can come up from the minors and be successful
pinch-hitters in the big. Maybe a journeyman minor leaguer, but not
typically a prospect.

What's more, I thought Anderson had fairly productive seasons in 2006 and
2007; is 2008 the anamoly or should we now expect him to hit .210/.255/.275
going forward?
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Reyes, at least, has a chance to get better. To me, when Omar gives
contracts to guys like Jose Valentine, Marlon Anderson, Damion Easley,
and such, he is banking on guys continuing a resurgence that is
unlikely at best and he is handcuffing his roster because you can't
just send these guys down to the minors if they're not playing well.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, I think there's a difference between counting on Anderson and Easley
for the bench and counting on Jose Valentin to start. Easley's not a bad
guy off the bench, but I don't want to see him get 300 ABs next year.

----------------------------------------------------------------------



I am very afraid he'll make the same mistake to Fernando Tatis. If
Tatis will accept an NRI, then that's great. If he'll take a one year
deal at low money, then that's ok. If somebody else wants to give
Tatis a 2 year deal, then have a nice day Fernando. The odds are that
Tatis will be closer to the player he was the majority of the season
and not the guy that tore it up in July.

> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm convinced that had the Mets made the playoffs, Ramon Martinez
> would have been the starting 2B and probably given a 2 year contract.
> If the Mets not making the playoffs prevents this, then thank goodness
> the Mets got knocked out.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I certainly believe Martinez would have been the starting second
> baseman --
> which, in itself, is a testimony to how beat up the team was in September.

I agree. I would also argue he should have been the starting second
baseman. But I will also argue that that would have caused him to get
a guaranteed multi-year contract for next season.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I sincerely doubt this part. Even if Martinez hit .500 during the end of
the season and through the playoffs, there's nothing in his profile that
would warrant a two-year deal, especially at his advanced age.

---------------------------------------------------------------------



I believe that with
these veterans who find these resurgences, you have to keep them
hungry. When these guys are playing for jobs they tend to play a lot
better then when they have a guaranteed contract to sit on. It's
probably not even a conscious thing. I know that's harsh, but the
goal here is to win baseball games, not be nice to people.

> They were down to their fourth-string leftfielders and fourth-string
> second
> baseman. They were without their closer and their #2 starter. And, among
> their regulars, their number-three hitter regressed from elite to ordinary
> against RHP; their clean-up hitter spent half the season MIA; and their
> bullpen was worn down and largely ineffective. When you take all this
> together, it becomes apparent that they were getting by with, at best, a
> four-man offense and a four-man pitching staff. It's amazing that they got
> where they did with this.

All of that is completely true. The 'four-man offense' just continues
to point out how relying on veteran players tends to create situations
where you need extraordinary depth. Now, Church was a fluke, and you
can't fault Omar for that.

------------------------------------------------------

You know what? If I were to fault Jerry for anything, it would have been
not giving either Murphy or Evans some playing time in RF. Considering how
bad Church looked against lefties and how promising Murphy looked against
them, it would have behooved the Mets to have someone available to platoon
with Church in right. Tatis' injury really hurt the team, not only because
they missed his bat, but also because it forced them to stick with Church
when it was obvious that he wasn't helping them.
-------------------------------------------------------



By rights, it should have been a 'five-man
offense'. I think if the Mets can find a position for Murphy, now you
have a 'six-man offense'. Of course, if that position is one that is
already occupied (such as 1B), then you're back down to five. To me,
you have to address LF, 2B, and C. I think 2B is the toughest because
I'm not an Orlando Hudson guy and it's going to depend how much
Castillo salary Omar has to eat to move him. My guess is they
basically pull a Matsui and pay him to play elsewhere. I'm not a huge
Orlando Hudson guy, but he's about all there is on the free agent
market.

---------------------------------------------------------

Well, the Orioles seem to make Brian Roberts available each off-season.
Most Braves watchers think Kelly Johnson will be moved before Spring
Training. The Cubs continue to try to find a place for Mike Fontenot. I'm
sure Ronnie Belliard can be had. Someone among Barmes, Stewart and Baker
should be available from Colorado. There's the annual stop-gap choices like
Grudzielanek and Loretta. The Yanks could move Cano. Does Toronto need
both Hill and Inglett?

----------------------------------------------------------




Do you think Murphy can play 2B, because I don't. Do you think Murphy
is an everyday OF because I don't think that either. I think he's a
1B . . . more in the mode of somebody like Jim Thome or Jeff Bagwell
or Kevin Youkilis defensively.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I envision Murphy as a Gregg Jefferies-type at second base -- and that seems
to go against Omar's philosophy. I could see Murphy as an everyday corner
outfielder, provided that he shows the appropriate amount of pop in his bat.
First base seems like a logical destination for him (he could be an
Olerud-type offensively), but I wouldn't be so quick to move Delgado out of
there just yet.

-------------------------------------------------------------



The other thing is, you have Reese
Havens, Jefrey Marte and Wilmer Flores in the minors. The odds are
one, if not all, of the three will change positions and 2B could come
out of there. Marte and Flores are a couple of years from ready but
if Havens heals, there's a decent change you could see him in
Citifield (sounds weird) sometime next year.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I have heard speculation about making Havens a catcher, due to his
intangible leadership capabilities. If he's coming as a second baseman, I
agree with you that he could be here very fast; if it's as a catcher, that
could take longer.

---------------------------------------------------------------



As for C, I think the Mets should call the Rangers and see if they
could do something like Heilman and Parnell for Ramirez or Teagarden.
Otherwise, I think it has to be a trade. I don't think you can count
on Castro and I think the other guys are roster filler. I think
Schneider should be a backup catcher / mentor at this stage in his
career.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't mind the Schneider/Castro conglomerate, so long as they address the
other needs they have. I mean, didn't they finish something like fourth in
BA and OBP -- but something like 8th in runs scored? That's likely a
reflection of some kind of tenseness ("gripping the bat too firmly" was how
Rick Down described it). I think they can win with Schneider; I don't think
they can with Schneider, Easley, Schoeneweis, Ramon Martinez, et al.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


In terms of LF, to me, the free agent market is either too old
(Ibanez), too DH-ish (Dunn), or too crazy (Milton Bradley). Do you
think Fernando Martinez is ready?

------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think F-Mart is ready just yet -- but a good start next year in the
minors could change that. Either way, you still have Murphy and Evans in
the mix for the left-field position. So, any upgrade is likely a short-term
stop-gap (think Rey Sanchez holding the fort for Jose Reyes), rather than a
full-scale upgrade.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Vladimir Guerrero is a free agent
but he played less then 100 games in the OF this year. I think he
needs to be able to DH to save his knees. I'd like to see a veteran
RH hitting OF on a decent 2 year deal where Fernando Martinez could
get 300 at bats next year and the veteran could get 300 and you'd have
a decent platoon. To me, Casey Blake is interesting.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There should be a lot of outfielders to choose from. Isn't Pat Burrell a
free agent? With Cameron Maybin emerging in Florida, someone among
Hermidia, Ross and Willingham should become available. If the Dodgers
re-sign Manny, that leaves them with Ethier, Kemp, Pierre and Andruw to fill
two positions. The Yanks could let Bobby Abreu loose. I could see the
White Sox looking to move Nick Swisher.
------------------------------------------------------------------


I think the solution to the bullpen is to find a closer first, even if
you have to overpay. Then, once you have that, you keep Joe Smith,
and you invite as many guys as you possibly can, similar to what the
Mets did in 2005, and you see who sticks. You look at Stokes and
Parnell since you control them and they have stuff. You look at Kunz
again. I think they'll find a way to move Schoeneweis. I think
they'll non-tender Feliciano and Sanchez. I think they'll trade
Heilman. You need to get some more guys out there who can miss bats.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

More than anything, they need guys who aren't afraid of contact.

> If I'm not mistaken, and I'm admittedly too lazy to look, Church has had
> injury problems in the past although this clearly looks flukish.

He hurt himself running into an outfield wall in 2005. If anything,
his pattern suggests somewhat reckless play accounting to injuries,
but I would hardly call him 'injury-prone' at this point in his
career.

>
> The thing is, you don't know what he is going to look like coming back
> next year.  It took Tommy Agee a year to recover from a beaning and Dickie
> Thorn never came back.
>

Dickie Thon got hit in the face. He was clearly not the same player
but he also had his eye sight clearly affected. That's not to say I'm
minimizing Church's injury, but I don't think they're necessarily
equivalent.

> > By rights, it should have been a 'five-man
> > offense'.  I think if the Mets can find a position for Murphy, now you
> > have a 'six-man offense'.  Of course, if that position is one that is
> > already occupied (such as 1B), then you're back down to five.
>
> I think he can be a 2nd baseman and we'll find out soon enough.  But ifhe
> moves to 1st base, then Delgado and Murphy becomes a platoon, which I

How do (2) lefthanded hitters make a platoon? How do you make that
work?

> think is actually fine because it gives the team depth, which is its own
> problem worthy of correcting. The catch is that is still does, then who
> plays 2nd base again?  It might be wise also to have Wright play some time
> at 1st base because Murphy can play third and this is more depth, similar

Well Murphy is, at best, a below average 3B. I really don't think
he'll be a very good 2B, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

> They need to avoid the FA market for the next 2 seasons unless a Santana
> like plum comes on the market and frankly, that isn't happening this
> season.
>

I don't have a problem with lower tier free agents who don't cost
draft picks. I'd just avoid Type A free agents. Anything else
doesn't cost anything but money.

>
>
> Where do you get this information?  Information on the Minor Leagues seems
> so hard to get.

Baseball America is a wonderful thing.

>
>
>
> > As for C, I think the Mets should call the Rangers and see if they could
> > do something like Heilman and Parnell for Ramirez or Teagarden.
> > Otherwise, I think it has to be a trade.  
>
> Can Delgado catch ;)  How about Evans?  I think they need to do this
> internally.  They need to get a hold of a prospect and get the gear on him
> and push him through the system fast if they can handle the course
> defensively.  
>

You're serious aren't you? Do you just think you can make a good
catcher? Do you have any idea how hard it is? I caught in High
School, and I wouldn't even consider trying to catch at a major league
level. I'm trying to think of the last guy other then Mike Piazza who
became a catcher, and frankly Piazza was never a good defensive
catcher, he was adequate.

> either that or call Vance Wilson and Todd Pratt.
>

Do you want a new catching coach?

> Catchers, by and large, don't catch more than a 100 games a year.  They
> should let Castro catchas much as he wants to.

They could do that if he could stay healthy.

>
> > In terms of LF, to me, the free agent market is either too old (Ibanez),
> > too DH-ish (Dunn), or too crazy (Milton Bradley).  Do you think Fernando
> > Martinez is ready?  
>
> I'm in favor of Dunn who can be thrown into the 1st/OF situation and give
> a lot more depth.
>

If you sign Adam Dunn, he is not depth, he is playing everyday.
Unfortunately, so does the guy who makes 16 million dollars who is
already at Dunn's best position. That means Dunn is playing LF, which
isn't so bad for a year until Delgado leaves. Actually, the more I
think about this, the more I like this idea.

> > Vladimir Guerrero is a free agent but he played less
> > then 100 games in the OF this year.  
>
> Very Interesting.  I'm a huge fan of Guerrero.  He's 32 and your right, he
> played only 99 games in the OF.  Then he had an OPS of 131, the lowest in
> his career since his rookie year.
>

His knees are completely shot. I can't believe he's 32 when you watch
him. He'll always hit, but think Andre Dawson in his last few years.
He needs to DH in order to stay on the field, and the Mets can't
afford him this opportunity. The Mets aren't going to pay him
Guerrero money to play 100 games.

> This is a scouting call.  If my scouts say I can get 100 games of Guerrero
> and I can aquire Dunn, I'd do both and let Murphy take a shot at 1st and
> the OF as well.
>

Do you really think the Mets will sign a bunch of guys for $15-$20
million to be platoon players? Do you think these guys will sign if
they're only going to play 100 games a year?


> > I think the solution to the bullpen is to find a closer first,
>
> I think this is a classic error.  The guy to find first would be a setup
> man, and then someone who can throw 3 effective innings every 3 days.

Oh yeah, baseball is full of those guys. Name one. Find me one good
multi-inning reliever. Don't tell me somebody YOU THINK can do it,
tell me somebody who actually does it.

>
> They need to look at starters and see who can convert like Eckersly,
> Inganhouser, Agullera, Kerry Wood, and Dave Riggetti.
>

Who the hell is Inganhouser? I think John Maine would be a good
closer if he can learn to throw strikes.

> Where is Mark Prior these days?  Jeff Francis?  Dotrel Willis? Justin
> Verlander?  Jeff Weaver?
>

Where do you get these names? Prior isn't healthy enough to pitch at
any level. Francis isn't a free agent and is probably not available.
Nobody wants Dontrelle Willis's contract. Verlander is the Tigers
best pitcher. Why would you make him a closer. Jeff Weaver?
Seriously, do you just put down a bunch of guys you've heard of?

>
> Admittedly, it's a small sample size, but Cancel was outstanding off the
> bench this year: .364/.462/.455.  That sounds like a back-up catcher who can
> hit.

I may be wrong, but I'll argue sample size. I've got a decade of
minor league stats that show Robinson Cancel can't hit. This is a guy
with a .689 OPS in over 2,800 minor league at bats.

>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> While I tend to agree with this generally, I'm not sure it holds true for
> pinch-hitting, which tends to favor brains over brawn.  To be sure, there
> aren't many rookies who can come up from the minors and be successful
> pinch-hitters in the big.  Maybe a journeyman minor leaguer, but not
> typically a prospect.

OK, but having one of these guys on your bench is not the same as the
last few seasons when Omar built his entire bench with veterans.

>
> What's more, I thought Anderson had fairly productive seasons in 2006 and
> 2007; is 2008 the anamoly or should we now expect him to hit .210/.255/.275
> going forward?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

He was completely awful in LA last year before suddenly finding it for
69 at bats with the Mets. While I wouldn't have suggested he'd have
fallen off as much as he did, he's 34, and I wouldn't have put good
money he'd be very good this year.

> Reyes, at least, has a chance to get better.  To me, when Omar gives
> contracts to guys like Jose Valentine, Marlon Anderson, Damion Easley,
> and such, he is banking on guys continuing a resurgence that is
> unlikely at best and he is handcuffing his roster because you can't
> just send these guys down to the minors if they're not playing well.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Again, I think there's a difference between counting on Anderson and Easley
> for the bench and counting on Jose Valentin to start.  Easley's not a bad
> guy off the bench, but I don't want to see him get 300 ABs next year.
>

Ok, but let me ask you this. Do you really think that Omar could go
into this season with a known-gimpy Luis Castillo and an always hurt
Moises Alou and not expected that the bench would play a key role? I
think you'd have had to have been naive otherwise. I think Omar
believed Easley would repeat his '07 and if he had to have 200 at bats
they would be good. Instead, he got 300 at bats, and they were merely
ok. I think Omar believed Endy Chavez and Angel Pagan were insurance
for Moises Alou instead of the defensive replacements that they
actually are.

>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> You know what?  If I were to fault Jerry for anything, it would have been
> not giving either Murphy or Evans some playing time in RF.  Consideringhow
> bad Church looked against lefties and how promising Murphy looked against
> them, it would have behooved the Mets to have someone available to platoon
> with Church in right.  Tatis' injury really hurt the team, not only because
> they missed his bat, but also because it forced them to stick with Church
> when it was obvious that he wasn't helping them.
> -------------------------------------------------------

I agree with this. I think they should have gotten RF time.

>
> Well, the Orioles seem to make Brian Roberts available each off-season.
> Most Braves watchers think Kelly Johnson will be moved before Spring
> Training.  The Cubs continue to try to find a place for Mike Fontenot.  I'm
> sure Ronnie Belliard can be had.  Someone among Barmes, Stewart and Baker
> should be available from Colorado.  There's the annual stop-gap choiceslike
> Grudzielanek and Loretta.  The Yanks could move Cano.  Does Toronto need
> both Hill and Inglett?

I like Roberts. I think Kelly Johnson would be an interesting stopgap
but I doubt the Braves would trade with the Mets. I have no interest
in Cano. Among your list, I think Kelly Johnson would probably be the
best solution if you think the Mets have the potential to actually
produce a 2B among their prospects in the next couple of years.

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:47:01 -0400, "Element" <noone@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"Mary1973" <mlawlor@nj.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:c77fa2cf-210a-4c00-b3d5-40b4b99ee541@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> Another great catch!
>
>Too bad he can't pitch!

....or hit.

"jonathan" <jmerin77@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f528ec80-a7a9-4873-b627-30f2717167d3@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Again, I think there's a difference between counting on Anderson and
> Easley
> for the bench and counting on Jose Valentin to start. Easley's not a bad
> guy off the bench, but I don't want to see him get 300 ABs next year.
>

Ok, but let me ask you this. Do you really think that Omar could go
into this season with a known-gimpy Luis Castillo and an always hurt
Moises Alou and not expected that the bench would play a key role?

-------------------------------------------------

I think he expected more from Castillo, who was coming back from knee
surgery. Certainly, he could have expected Castillo's health to improve the
farther he went into the season (and the farther he was removed from the
knee surgery). I don't know if anyone expected Castillo to actually get
_worse_. I mean, Castillo had averaged about 130 games per year over the
last seven seasons, and he was only 32 at the start of the season.

As for Alou, I think Omar expected 80-100 games (much like 2007), and had
Angel Pagan lined up as his fourth outfielder, with insurance policies at
AAA (Tatis, Aguila) in the wings until Fernando Martinez was ready. The
interesting wrenches in this plan were the injuries to Alou, Pagan and
F-Mart, as well as the accelerated developments of Murphy and Evans.

It's worth noting that Murphy and Evans combined, over 240 ABs, to go
..287/.354/.441. Add Pagan's .275/.346/.374 to this mix and it's still
respectable for back-ups. Left field didn't kill the Mets the way second
base did.

----------------------------------------------------

[...]

>
> Well, the Orioles seem to make Brian Roberts available each off-season.
> Most Braves watchers think Kelly Johnson will be moved before Spring
> Training. The Cubs continue to try to find a place for Mike Fontenot. I'm
> sure Ronnie Belliard can be had. Someone among Barmes, Stewart and Baker
> should be available from Colorado. There's the annual stop-gap choices
> like
> Grudzielanek and Loretta. The Yanks could move Cano. Does Toronto need
> both Hill and Inglett?

I like Roberts. I think Kelly Johnson would be an interesting stopgap
but I doubt the Braves would trade with the Mets. I have no interest
in Cano. Among your list, I think Kelly Johnson would probably be the
best solution if you think the Mets have the potential to actually
produce a 2B among their prospects in the next couple of years.

--------------------------------------------------------

Kelly Johnson can't field at all. If I'm Omar, I break the bank for Orlando
Hudson because a. ) he needs a second baseman and b.) Hudson has the
reputation for clubhouse intangibles, something this team is desperately in
search of.

"Micheal Ray" <mrr@spamspam.com> wrote in message
news:c1866$48e233d1$471dac41$4224@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "jonathan" <jmerin77@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f528ec80-a7a9-4873-b627-30f2717167d3@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> Again, I think there's a difference between counting on Anderson and
>> Easley
>> for the bench and counting on Jose Valentin to start. Easley's not a bad
>> guy off the bench, but I don't want to see him get 300 ABs next year.
>>
>
> Ok, but let me ask you this. Do you really think that Omar could go
> into this season with a known-gimpy Luis Castillo and an always hurt
> Moises Alou and not expected that the bench would play a key role?
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> I think he expected more from Castillo, who was coming back from knee
> surgery. Certainly, he could have expected Castillo's health to improve
> the farther he went into the season (and the farther he was removed from
> the knee surgery). I don't know if anyone expected Castillo to actually
> get _worse_. I mean, Castillo had averaged about 130 games per year over
> the last seven seasons, and he was only 32 at the start of the season.


What pissed off the organization and players, was that Castillo arrived at
ST out of shape, after his surgery.


> As for Alou, I think Omar expected 80-100 games (much like 2007), and had
> Angel Pagan lined up as his fourth outfielder, with insurance policies at
> AAA (Tatis, Aguila) in the wings until Fernando Martinez was ready. The
> interesting wrenches in this plan were the injuries to Alou, Pagan and
> F-Mart, as well as the accelerated developments of Murphy and Evans.
>
> It's worth noting that Murphy and Evans combined, over 240 ABs, to go
> .287/.354/.441. Add Pagan's .275/.346/.374 to this mix and it's still
> respectable for back-ups. Left field didn't kill the Mets the way second
> base did.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> [...]
>
>>
>> Well, the Orioles seem to make Brian Roberts available each off-season.
>> Most Braves watchers think Kelly Johnson will be moved before Spring
>> Training. The Cubs continue to try to find a place for Mike Fontenot. I'm
>> sure Ronnie Belliard can be had. Someone among Barmes, Stewart and Baker
>> should be available from Colorado. There's the annual stop-gap choices
>> like
>> Grudzielanek and Loretta. The Yanks could move Cano. Does Toronto need
>> both Hill and Inglett?
>
> I like Roberts. I think Kelly Johnson would be an interesting stopgap
> but I doubt the Braves would trade with the Mets. I have no interest
> in Cano. Among your list, I think Kelly Johnson would probably be the
> best solution if you think the Mets have the potential to actually
> produce a 2B among their prospects in the next couple of years.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Kelly Johnson can't field at all. If I'm Omar, I break the bank for
> Orlando Hudson because a. ) he needs a second baseman and b.) Hudson has
> the reputation for clubhouse intangibles, something this team is
> desperately in search of.
>

Can Hudson stay healthy?

[Default] On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:20:26 -0700 (PDT), acd
<power@manlymail.net> escribió:

>On Sep 28, 4:46 pm, Wretch <wret...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 4:25 pm, Mary1973 <mlaw...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Another great catch!
>>
>> A routine grab with a degree of difficulty exaggerated by Mut shills
>> who were wishing they could compare it to the catch in the 2006 NLCS,
>> which the Muts lost by the way.  It's amusing how Mut announcers are
>> quick to jump all over guys like Jim Edmonds for supposedly hot
>> dogging it and making routine plays seem spectacular.  Beltran does
>> precisely this as he loafs after balls on the warning track, as does
>> Chavez, as evidenced by his mundane grab this afternoon.  Yet, no
>> analogous criticism for Mut outfielders from the hometown shills.
>> This is damning proof that all Mut announcers are nothing but a bunch
>> of homers, a criticism that Mut fans love to make of other teams'
>> announcers.

>Correct. 5 stars.

Ah, lovely. A meeting of the mindless.

>It's funny how The Yankees announcers are actually even-tempered,
>jovial, balanced and will actually criticise Yankee players...

Actually, I'm not sure which is funnier: the thought that you might
actually believe the crap that you post here, or that you're actually
stupid and delusional enough to think that anyone _else_ could
possibly believe it.

>but because Sterling makes those boisterous HR calls (which he also does
>when THE OPPOSING TEAM HITS A HOME RUN)

A lie doesn't become truth merely because it's written in all
capitals. The fact is that Sterling calls opposing homeruns as if
he were reading a eulogy, whereas even a long Yankee fly ball
sends him into an orgasmic fit, complete with his litany of idiotic
nicknames and trite catch phrases. ("The Giam-bi-no!" , "An
aaaaayyy-bomb from aaaaaay-rod", etc.) I won't even bother to
mention Waldman, who lost whatever shred of credibility she may
have had as a broadcaster after her on-air orgasm over the
steroid-abusing pedophile Roger Clemens.

>he's somehow a "homer".

Wrong again, you poor brainless schmuck. Sterling is a homer
because he's a mindless Yankee shill and a cheerleader in the booth
("buh-huh-huh-huh Yankees WIN!!!!), so utterly lacking in
professionalism that he actually refers to the Yankees as "we." He
offers nothing but excuses when the team underperforms, and on those
rare occasions when he's not carrying on like an idiot, it quickly
becomes painfully obvious that beyond the schtick, he's got absolutely
nothing of substance to say -- a fact acknowledged by every local
media critic from the Post's Phil Mushnick to the Times' Richard
Sandomir. In short, Sterling is a clown, his sidekick merely aspires
to clown status, and their defenders, a thankfully tiny group, are a
clueless band of drooling idiot fanboys.

>The Mets announcers are probably the biggest shills in sports
>broadcasting history- especially the radio announcers.

In contrast to the near-universally derided Sterling/Waldman duo, the
Met broadcast crew is one of the most highly-regarded in professional
sports. Your continuing jealous obsession with them, not to mention
this ludicrous smear campaign of yours, borders on the pathological.

-- EAQDEU®

26*!! 26*!! 26*!!