Congrats to Moose for his 20th win - he's now the oldest pitcher to have
won 20 games for the first time.

This gives him, I think, 270 wins. Think he'll stick around for three
more years (if he averages 10 wins/season, he's got 300)?

HOF-worthy?

On Sep 29, 12:02 am, sli...@slidge.com wrote:
> Congrats to Moose for his 20th win - he's now the oldest pitcher to have
> won 20 games for the first time.
>
> This gives him, I think, 270 wins.  Think he'll stick around for three
> more years (if he averages 10 wins/season, he's got 300)?
>
> HOF-worthy?

Congratulations to Moose for sticking it out and finally winning 20. I
had predicted he never would, at least not by going for high strikeout
totals and trying to outthink hitters. When his fastball retired, he
was able to accomplish a style makeover that allowed him to pitch his
best season ever in 2008.

To those -- and you know who you are -- who pooh-poohed the value of
games won in a season, the very fact that he did reach a milestone
that every single MLB starting pitches aims for means he WILL get into
the Hall of Fame. Why? Because despite every other achievement, 20
games is the capstone.

I bought Feinstein's book profiling Mussina and Glavine but,
appropriately, I haven't finished it yet.

Ted

> To those -- and you know who you are -- who pooh-poohed the value of
> games won in a season, the very fact that he did reach a milestone that
> every single MLB starting pitches aims for means he WILL get into the
> Hall of Fame. Why? Because despite every other achievement, 20 games is
> the capstone.

I would argue that 20 games is a capstone to a "good" career, but 300 wins
is the capstone to a "HOF" career. Say he didn't pick up the 20 wins, but
he did win 300, he's in. However, if he retires at the end of this
season, even with the 20 wins, I'm not sure he gets in.

On Sep 29, 1:27 pm, sli...@slidge.com wrote:
> > To those -- and you know who you are -- who pooh-poohed the value of
> > games won in a season, the very fact that he did reach a milestone that
> > every single MLB starting pitches aims for means he WILL get into the
> > Hall of Fame. Why? Because despite every other achievement, 20 games is
> > the capstone.
>
> I would argue that 20 games is a capstone to a "good" career, but 300 wins
> is the capstone to a "HOF" career.  Say he didn't pick up the 20 wins, but
> he did win 300, he's in.  However, if he retires at the end of this
> season, even with the 20 wins, I'm not sure he gets in.

I really meant a capstone to HIS career, given all the other stats and
consistency in his career, esp when the O's sucked.

Ted

In article <-4GdnbY7PNb-zn3VnZ2dnUVZ_s3inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
<slidge@slidge.com> wrote:
>Congrats to Moose for his 20th win - he's now the oldest pitcher to have
>won 20 games for the first time.
>
>This gives him, I think, 270 wins. Think he'll stick around for three
>more years (if he averages 10 wins/season, he's got 300)?
>
>HOF-worthy?
>


well, I am tempted to say, "nice career, Moose... dont wait up for
a slot in the Hall", but you never know. After all, Don Sutton
parlayed his somewhat better than average skills and longevity
into a place in the Hall. OTOH, some very worthwhile pitchers
(e.g. blyleven, who had the misfortune of spending most of his
career with absolutely horrible teams had as many wins and more
20 game seasons) are arguably HOF caliber, but not likely ever
to get in without a ticket.

Given that he pitched for a lot of pretty good teams, Mussina's
record is not as bright as I think it should have been.

Cheers,

Mitch.

>
> Given that he pitched for a lot of pretty good teams, Mussina's
> record is not as bright as I think it should have been.
>

My take as well, although if he hops the "longetivity train", I think he
gets in. Say he pitches four or five more years, he retires around age
44, with maybe (average 12 wins a year) 40-50 more wins, he has roughly
310-320 wins, I think he's in.

If Moose's goal is to get into the HOF, that's the only way in, imo. If
he's not interested, he'll retire next year, year after, most likely.

In article <voedne9F5tI0FH7VnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
<slidge@slidge.com> wrote:
>>
>> Given that he pitched for a lot of pretty good teams, Mussina's
>> record is not as bright as I think it should have been.
>>
>
>My take as well, although if he hops the "longetivity train", I think he
>gets in. Say he pitches four or five more years, he retires around age
>44, with maybe (average 12 wins a year) 40-50 more wins, he has roughly
>310-320 wins, I think he's in.
>
>If Moose's goal is to get into the HOF, that's the only way in, imo. If
>he's not interested, he'll retire next year, year after, most likely.
>

Frankly, I doubt that he can last that long. And if you put him on a
mediocre team, he won't give them that much better a chance to win (look
at Maddux' falloff this year from last, and he is supposed to be among the
best-conditioned pitchers around). Mussina is no Nolan Ryan-type freak of
nature.

IMO he has some plusses - but IMO both Blyleven and Kaat have cases at least
as strong for being included in the Hall - and they pitched for some very
sorry teams along the way,

Sorry, Mike ... back to Pennsylvania with you, when you hang 'em up.


Cheers,

Mitch Edelman