View Full Version : The Franchise Quarterback


RDOGuy
09-22-2008, 04:33 PM
They could already smell the blood in the water.

Sunday's Chiefs Extra in the Kansas City Star had no fewer than three
articles bemoaning the fact that the Chiefs never took advantage of
their opportunities to get Brady Quinn in 2007 or Matt Ryan in 2008,
leaving them in the unenviable position of starting Minnesota castoff
Tyler Thigpen as Brodie Croyle recovers from his separated shoulder.

Clearly the Star was anticipating Thigpen's poor performance in
Sunday's game, in which he threw three interceptions, and must
shoulder most of the burden for the Chiefs' third loss. The Star must
be feeling pretty good about their ability to predict Thigpen's poor
play - except that you hardly need to be a brain surgeon to figure out
that a four year starter at Coastal Carolina (who was the recruited as
the first starting quarterback in CC's brand new football program)
would very likely lose his lunch money to opposing cornerbacks in his
first NFL start.

Unfortunately for the Star, the rest of their hypothesis was wrong.
In reading the articles, you could very well come away with the
impression that Brady Quinn and Matt Ryan are proven NFL starters, and
that the Chiefs simply passed on opportunities to draft them.

The problem is that this is false on both counts. Despite his high
salary (and endorsement deals) Quinn has attempted exactly eight
passes in NFL games. He's completed three of them. Sure... Ryan's
first NFL pass was a 62 yard TD throw, and yesterday's 70 yard TD pass
against the Chiefs was a thing of beauty. But the kid is still a
rookie, and after three starts, his quarterback rating stands at 77.0.

And besides... the Chiefs never had a realistic chance at either
player. In both the 2007 and 2008 drafts, the Chiefs simply had too
many pressing needs to trade up. Oh, sure... maybe the Chiefs could
have made a deal to get Quinn when he unexpectedly went so late in
2007's first round, but to what end? So that Quinn could be the next
David Carr... earning millions while being sacked 55 times behind a
horrible offensive line? And after last season - when the Chiefs
roster showed more holes than one of Dick Cheney's hunting buddies -
does anyone REALLY think the Chiefs had enough draft picks to get
their hands on any of the first four picks?

It's easy for an enterprising reporter to collect a bunch of quotes
from NFL "experts" proclaiming that a championship team must be built
around a franchise quarterback. What's NOT so easy is to actually DO
this - especially when a franchise has spent so many years plugging
holes through free agency in the hope of acheiving short term success,
while consistently denying young players a chance to learn and prove
themselves on the field.

It's fair to criticize the Chiefs (and yes, Peterson) for taking so
long to figure out that they were building a house of cards through
free agency - and among Sunday's Star articles, only Posnanski's
really acknowledges this. But now that's nothing more than spilt milk
- now that they;ve seen the light, the Chiefs have no choice but to
keep on keeping on... to get their young linemen on both sides of the
ball a chance to learn the game. Only then can they adequately
protect a gunslinging leprechaun like Croyle (or perhaps a prime QB
taken early in 2009, if it comes to that) and build the strong rushing
attack (and equally strong rushing defense) that truly DOES form the
foundation of a championship team.

Even in yesterday's blowout, there were signs that players like Dorsey
and McBride are learning how to become forces in the middle of the
defensive line, and the offensive line DID finally manage to open SOME
holes for Johnson. There's still much work to do - the Chiefs had
better be running lots of tackling drills this week, and for the rest
of the season - but if you look beyond the immediate results, you can
see that the seeds are starting to take root.

When that tree starts to grow, THEN we can have that discussion about
franchise quarterbacks and go-to wide receivers. Until then, it's
nothing more than a device to sell newpapers... and light up the phone
lines for sports talk shows.

Andre
09-22-2008, 07:17 PM
On Sep 22, 11:33 am, RDOGuy <rdo...@aol.com> wrote:
> They could already smell the blood in the water.
>
> Sunday's Chiefs Extra in the Kansas City Star had no fewer than three
> articles bemoaning the fact that the Chiefs never took advantage of
> their opportunities to get Brady Quinn in 2007 or Matt Ryan in 2008,
> leaving them in the unenviable position of starting Minnesota castoff
> Tyler Thigpen as Brodie Croyle recovers from his separated shoulder.
>
> Clearly the Star was anticipating Thigpen's poor performance in
> Sunday's game, in which he threw three interceptions, and must
> shoulder most of the burden for the Chiefs' third loss.  The Star must
> be feeling pretty good about their ability to predict Thigpen's poor
> play - except that you hardly need to be a brain surgeon to figure out
> that a four year starter at Coastal Carolina (who was the recruited as
> the first starting quarterback in CC's brand new football program)
> would very likely lose his lunch money to opposing cornerbacks in his
> first NFL start.
>
> Unfortunately for the Star, the rest of their hypothesis was wrong.
> In reading the articles, you could very well come away with the
> impression that Brady Quinn and Matt Ryan are proven NFL starters, and
> that the Chiefs simply passed on opportunities to draft them.
>
> The problem is that this is false on both counts.  Despite his high
> salary (and endorsement deals) Quinn has attempted exactly eight
> passes in NFL games.  He's completed three of them.  Sure... Ryan's
> first NFL pass was a 62 yard TD throw, and yesterday's 70 yard TD pass
> against the Chiefs was a thing of beauty.  But the kid is still a
> rookie, and after three starts, his quarterback rating stands at 77.0.
>
> And besides... the Chiefs never had a realistic chance at either
> player.  In both the 2007 and 2008 drafts, the Chiefs simply had too
> many pressing needs to trade up.  Oh, sure... maybe the Chiefs could
> have made a deal to get Quinn when he unexpectedly went so late in
> 2007's first round, but to what end?  So that Quinn could be the next
> David Carr... earning millions while being sacked 55 times behind a
> horrible offensive line?  And after last season - when the Chiefs
> roster showed more holes than one of Dick Cheney's hunting buddies -
> does anyone REALLY think the Chiefs had enough draft picks to get
> their hands on any of the first four picks?
>
> It's easy for an enterprising reporter to collect a bunch of quotes
> from NFL "experts" proclaiming that a championship team must be built
> around a franchise quarterback.  What's NOT so easy is to actually DO
> this - especially when a franchise has spent so many years plugging
> holes through free agency in the hope of acheiving short term success,
> while consistently denying young players a chance to learn and prove
> themselves on the field.
>
> It's fair to criticize the Chiefs (and yes, Peterson) for taking so
> long to figure out that they were building a house of cards through
> free agency - and among Sunday's Star articles, only Posnanski's
> really acknowledges this.  But now that's nothing more than spilt milk
> - now that they;ve seen the light, the Chiefs have no choice but to
> keep on keeping on... to get their young linemen on both sides of the
> ball a chance to learn the game.  Only then can they adequately
> protect a gunslinging leprechaun like Croyle (or perhaps a prime QB
> taken early in 2009, if it comes to that) and build the strong rushing
> attack (and equally strong rushing defense) that truly DOES form the
> foundation of a championship team.
>
> Even in yesterday's blowout, there were signs that players like Dorsey
> and McBride are learning how to become forces in the middle of the
> defensive line, and the offensive line DID finally manage to open SOME
> holes for Johnson.  There's still much work to do - the Chiefs had
> better be running lots of tackling drills this week, and for the rest
> of the season - but if you look beyond the immediate results, you can
> see that the seeds are starting to take root.
>
> When that tree starts to grow, THEN we can have that discussion about
> franchise quarterbacks and go-to wide receivers.  Until then, it's
> nothing more than a device to sell newpapers... and light up the phone
> lines for sports talk shows.

Everything's ok, we'll have Tebow soon.

The Good Poster
09-22-2008, 09:31 PM
I haven't heard this much, so maybe I'm wrong, but.....

Seems to me we shouldn't worry about who the QB is until the offensive line
is better. Croyle or Thigpen or Quinn (have you heard those rumors?) or
Tebow, we won't know how good or bad they are until they can get a little
protection. My feeling is that neither Croyle nor Thigpen is the answer,
but there's no use in ditching them until we find out for sure (which may be
a while). So I think I am agreeing with RDOGuy.

Changing the subject ---- Since this is a "rebuilding" year, Herm (and
probably Carl) get a pass for this year and both are on board for the start
of next season, even if this year is 0-16.

Andre
09-22-2008, 09:48 PM
On Sep 22, 4:31 pm, "The Good Poster" <thegoodpos...@REMOVEkc.rr.com>
wrote:
> I haven't heard this much, so maybe I'm wrong, but.....
>
> Seems to me we shouldn't worry about who the QB is until the offensive line
> is better.  Croyle or Thigpen or Quinn (have you heard those rumors?) or
> Tebow, we won't know how good or bad they are until they can get a little
> protection.  My feeling is that neither Croyle nor Thigpen is the answer,
> but there's no use in ditching them until we find out for sure (which maybe
> a while).  So I think I am agreeing with RDOGuy.
>
> Changing the subject ---- Since this is a "rebuilding" year, Herm (and
> probably Carl) get a pass for this year and both are on board for the start
> of next season, even if this year is 0-16.

I was getting ahead of myself a bit. What I mean is: we're not about
to find out if Croyle is going to be our man until the OL gets a full
season behind them. Once he gets a little protection we'll be able to
evaluate Croyle or anyone else; right now that would be impossible; I
do, however think that Croyle is a little bit to injury prone due to
his small size. I was speaking to some guy who loves Alabama, so I
asked him about Croyle. He just shrugged his shoulders and said: "He
was alright in Alabama, just kinda small."

I'm pretty sure Thigpen is not the answer. So by the end of this
season we're going to know if we need a qb or some more OL help. And
if it's a qb, it'll probably be Tebow.

Andre

Nunya Bidnits
09-24-2008, 03:55 AM
The Good Poster wrote:
> I haven't heard this much, so maybe I'm wrong, but.....
>
> Seems to me we shouldn't worry about who the QB is until the
> offensive line is better. Croyle or Thigpen or Quinn (have you heard
> those rumors?) or Tebow, we won't know how good or bad they are until
> they can get a little protection. My feeling is that neither Croyle
> nor Thigpen is the answer, but there's no use in ditching them until
> we find out for sure (which may be a while). So I think I am
> agreeing with RDOGuy.
>
> Changing the subject ---- Since this is a "rebuilding" year, Herm (and
> probably Carl) get a pass for this year and both are on board for the
> start of next season, even if this year is 0-16.

So was last year. Herm just mealy-mouthed it into a different persona this
time. I wish he would move on to ESPN... it seems like he longs for a TV job
and he is good at it, but he better get a move on before he self destructs
here so bad they won't want him any more.

Clark Hunt said he expects to see some improvement, especially later in the
season. I have a feeling heads will roll before the season's end if it gets
any more ugly.

MartyB in KC