Dear All,

I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
those of you not familiar, I run www.rowingboatlights.com in my spare
time), and I need your feedback.

Please let me know what you like or don't like about my product, or
any other similar units. Is there a feature you want to see that no
one has offered yet? The more feedback I get the better I can make the
lights in my latest re-design.

While we do have some great ideas, having the wider rowing community
have their input will mean a better product (and safer night time
rowing!).

New products are on the way apart from the redesign of the existing
range, but feel free to offer any suggestions.

Please post here or email me directly. There are a couple of free set
of lights available to persons/clubs who give quality feedback.

Thanks,
Jonny

On Sep 12, 2:11 pm, Jonny <jonny.cantw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
> those of you not familiar, I runwww.rowingboatlights.comin my spare
> time), and I need your feedback.
>
> Please let me know what you like or don't like about my product, or
> any other similar units. Is there a feature you want to see that no
> one has offered yet? The more feedback I get the better I can make the
> lights in my latest re-design.

OK Jonny, here for starters is one severely non-technical point, in
the hope that others may agree. If they don't, it's a rubbish point -
and I don't know your product.

I've NOT YET seen a rowing boat light which I thought put out too
bright a light, or with too wide a beam.

I see an awful lot which are too small/faint for these old eyes, and
totally fail to give 180deg cover, which I believe is highly desirable
and required [eg on PLA water?] by law.

I'm thinking Bullseye! ..... and I can't see that a bit of extra wind
resistance will do much harm on a winter training outing, but perhaps
I'm missing the point yet again?

Richard

Jonny wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
> those of you not familiar, I run www.rowingboatlights.com in my spare
> time), and I need your feedback.
>
> Please let me know what you like or don't like about my product, or
> any other similar units. Is there a feature you want to see that no
> one has offered yet? The more feedback I get the better I can make the
> lights in my latest re-design.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonny

I liked the way the old version (the ones that looked like bike lights and
took AAA batteries not watch batteries) had a flashing mode where two of
the LEDs were out of phase with the other three, so there was always some
light coming from it, avoiding the risk that someone will glance over their
shoulder while your light is flashing off while still keeping the
attention-grabbing advantage of flashing lights.

Brighter and broader beams would be nice, but I understand that a large
segment of the market buys on price alone (and indeed, it's hard to find
any other discriminators when buying online, unless one has previous
experience with the products). Indeed, I expect there are plenty of places
where the traffic levels, ambient light pollution etc are such that the
current configuration is perfectly adequate. (Ely is an obvious example -
number of crews out before dawn always in single figures, and most of the
river is miles away from the nearest other artificial light source.)

"Jonny" <jonny.cantwell@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:caffe559-1f80-443e-843d-496e09a8f38b@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Dear All,
>
> I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
> those of you not familiar, I run www.rowingboatlights.com in my spare
> time), and I need your feedback.

One attachment option being used at BIAC has been to
glue velcro 'teeth' on the bow and stern decks, closer to
the cockpit, and the velcro material on the lamps themselves.

I like the lights up a little higher up off the water for visibility,
and it keeps them drier. Also, this time of year you might
only need the lights for 15 mins of your row, it's nice to be
able to reach the lamps to turn them off and save battery.

With club use boats, pulling the bow marker attachments out
every day can tend to loosen the screws into the deck over
time, Not everything fits the same. The velcro is easy to attach,
holds fast, easy to un-attach.

On 12 Sep, 15:42, rdupa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 12, 2:11�pm, Jonny <jonny.cantw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
> > those of you not familiar, I runwww.rowingboatlights.cominmy spare
> > time), and I need your feedback.
>
> > Please let me know what you like or don't like about my product, or
> > any other similar units. Is there a feature you want to see that no
> > one has offered yet? The more feedback I get the better I can make the
> > lights in my latest re-design.
>
> OK Jonny, here for starters is one severely non-technical point, in
> the hope that others may agree. If they don't, it's a rubbish point -
> and I don't know your product.
>
> I've NOT YET seen a rowing boat light which I thought put out too
> bright a light, or with too wide a beam.
>
> I see an awful lot which are too small/faint for these old eyes, and
> totally fail to give 180deg cover, which I believe is highly desirable
> and required [eg on PLA water?] by law.
>
> I'm thinking Bullseye! ..... and I can't see that a bit of extra wind
> resistance will do much harm on a winter training outing, but perhaps
> I'm missing the point yet again?
>
> Richard

Jonny,
There is lots of stuff on rsr about this subject; but mine is a
Tideway based opinion only, although what goes for the Tideway might
well apply elsewhere but only if allowed by local byelaws of course.

Totally agree with rdupa about existing lights.

The light is meant to be seen by other navigators, not so that the cox
or steers can see where he/she is going so it should be BRIGHT and
higher out of/off the water than the actual boat.
Dont necessarily want to project light - just show a lot of light -
probably not logical but the best way I can describe it.
A bullseye would do it but would spread light in a hemisphere /
through 360' - how about a half bullseye [with the top half missing]
or a 'dipped' bullseye mounted on the breakwater.

This arrangement would be visible to all craft from all angles forward
of 180' to the direction of the boat and the lower half of the half or
dipped bullseye would illuminate some part of boat, giving an observer
some idea of whats coming at him/her/it.

Mounting mast should be a universal fit for all boat configurations or
be simple to adapt, must be firm and resist shaking/wobbling.
Device should emit audible and very irritating warning when the
battery power reduces below the level to give an effective display
[and perhaps also cut out the light?]


Price for what is basically safety kit is always a worry; as has been
said to destruction often enough on these pages people will shell out
wads of money on riggers, blades, shoes [but not heel restraints] if
they think it will make them go fast or turn them somehow into a local
SSR but - navigation lights? Heavy, lots of wind resistance [I go
soooo fast in the dark you see], batteries dont last long [I put these
in three years ago and now they've failed....] etc., etc.,

Note that on the tidal Thames only ONE light, WHITE, STEADY and
pointing FORWARD is legal under PLA and local navigation rules.
So all flashing lights, blue tinged lights, lights mounted at the rear
of a rowing boat are not 'legal

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 06:11:24 -0700 (PDT), Jonny
<jonny.cantwell@gmail.com> wrote:

>Please post here or email me directly. There are a couple of free set
>of lights available to persons/clubs who give quality feedback.

Have an option of an all white version of the red/green/white light to
provide improved angular coverage.

Do they float?

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:26:40 -0700 (PDT), TidewayUmpire
<penabc@aol.com> wrote:

>Note that on the tidal Thames only ONE light, WHITE, STEADY and
>pointing FORWARD is legal under PLA and local navigation rules.
>So all flashing lights, blue tinged lights, lights mounted at the rear
>of a rowing boat are not 'legal

Sorry, I don't think that's an accurate statement of the current
Tideway rules.

This is what it says in the "Rowing on the Tideway" Code of Practice
in 2006 (Section 4.5). I believe this document still applies.

<begins>

This means that all rowing boats should have a white light affixed to
the boat by a secure permanent bracket or similar fixing in front of
bow and behind the cox, visible from a minimum distance of 800m. It is
recommended that lights designed specifically for rowing boats are
used. An additional flashing white light can be used on the bow of the
boat to indicate direction of travel, but only in conjunction with a
fixed white light.

Note: A torch with a directed beam is not suitable. It is required to
be a light that is visible throughout the whole of at least 180º for
the requisite distance.

<ends>

The Code of Practice is available on the PLA website here:
http://www.pla.co.uk/pdfs/maritime/rowing_code_-_printers.pdf Worth a
read, esp. with the evenings drawing in.

NB lighting rules for other waterways can be *very* different from
these - find out what your local rules are before buying the wrong
lights!

"TidewayUmpire" <penabc@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6c822567-7e35-49f5-923e-73404d5e3744@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
<snipped>
Note that on the tidal Thames only ONE light, WHITE, STEADY and
pointing FORWARD is legal under PLA and local navigation rules.
So all flashing lights, blue tinged lights, lights mounted at the rear
of a rowing boat are not 'legal.

Can it be right that no light must show astern? Crews do stop sometimes and
this seems to me to be asking for some other crew to come up and ram them
from behind without any prior indication that they are there.

On Sep 12, 7:53 pm, "Edgar" <ejc...@REMOVEonline.no> wrote:
> "TidewayUmpire" <pen...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6c822567-7e35-49f5-923e-73404d5e3744@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> <snipped>
>  Note that on the tidal Thames only ONE light, WHITE, STEADY and
> pointing FORWARD is legal under PLA and local navigation rules.
> So all flashing lights, blue tinged lights, lights mounted at the rear
> of a rowing boat are not  'legal.
>
> Can it be right that no light must show astern?  Crews do stop sometimes and
> this seems to me to be asking for some other crew to come up and ram them
> from behind without any prior indication that they are there.

just a thought- I was given a bike light at christmas which is charged
from a USB port, I guess the idea is cycle to work, charge the light
at work, cycle home again, I should think something akin could be
worth while for the rowing world, just a little more buoyant, water-
tight, easy to remove/attach, visible rather than directional beam etc
etc...

On 12 Sep, 18:54, Richard Packer <use...@rjSURNAME.org.yookay> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:26:40 -0700 (PDT), TidewayUmpire
>
> <pen...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Note that on the tidal Thames only ONE light, WHITE, STEADY and
> >pointing FORWARD is legal under PLA and local navigation rules.
> >So all flashing lights, blue tinged lights, lights mounted at the rear
> >of a rowing boat are not �'legal
>
> Sorry, I don't think that's an accurate statement of the current
> Tideway rules.
>
> This is what it says in the "Rowing on the Tideway" Code of Practice
> in 2006 (Section 4.5). �I believe this document still applies.
>
> <begins>
>
> This means that all rowing boats should have a white light affixed to
> the boat by a secure permanent bracket or similar fixing in front of
> bow and behind the cox, visible from a minimum distance of 800m. It is
> recommended that lights designed specifically for rowing boats are
> used. An additional flashing white light can be used on the bow of the
> boat to indicate direction of travel, but only in conjunction with a
> fixed white light.
>
> Note: A torch with a directed beam is not suitable. It is required to
> be a light that is visible throughout the whole of at least 180� for
> the requisite distance.
>
> <ends>
>
> The Code of Practice is available on the PLA website here:http://www.pla.co.uk/pdfs/maritime/rowing_code_-_printers.pdf�Worth a
> read, esp. with the evenings drawing in.
>
> NB lighting rules for other waterways can be *very* different from
> these - find out what your local rules are before buying the wrong
> lights!

Richard,
"Sorry, I don't think that's an accurate statement of the current
Tideway rules"
Quite right and dont be sorry - its important we all get it right,
including me.
Apologies to Edgar and all for posting an altzheimers inspired comment
- 'though I stand by the rest !

Dear All,

thanks for the feedback so far.

Notes and answers on some things mentioned:

- we have a mount for a big 360deg light in development and it is a
monster. Ali Elliott from BBLRC will have a pre-production sample soon
that will appear on the Tideway for you all to see and test (UK
readers, sorry Mike - do you want one?). The light unit is the Tektite
4 LED Marker (http://tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=33). I can
send pics to anyone who is keen to see it.

- standard light range will continue to use the 180deg Guardian light.
I haven't seen anything anywhere near as good. We are going to revise
the mounts.

- the 'Tadpole' light will be revised to take the Guardian unit.
Current light is not bright enough and is too fiddly to work with.
Concept of a small and light suction cup mounted light is popular.

> Have an option of an all white version of the red/green/white light to provide improved angular coverage.
- We have made a few of these up for people who requested it, but I
should update the website to offer it as an option.


> Do they float?
- No. That's why we have lanyards on all the mounts that are
removable.

I think your products are great. As an advisory to the Tideway (and
US) rules, a single white light forward or sternward is very hard to
distinguish in an urban area where the cluttter from other sources are
reflecting off the water. A flashing LED light is less mistakable as a
light source from on the water. It's getting norticed that counts.
If your had the prerequisite white light to meet regs and incorporate
a flashing LED of some proper color, it would attract more attention.

JD


On Sep 12, 8:11 am, Jonny <jonny.cantw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
> those of you not familiar, I runwww.rowingboatlights.comin my spare
> time), and I need your feedback.
>
> Please let me know what you like or don't like about my product, or
> any other similar units. Is there a feature you want to see that no
> one has offered yet? The more feedback I get the better I can make the
> lights in my latest re-design.
>
> While we do have some great ideas, having the wider rowing community
> have their input will mean a better product (and safer night time
> rowing!).
>
> New products are on the way apart from the redesign of the existing
> range, but feel free to offer any suggestions.
>
> Please post here or email me directly. There are a couple of free set
> of lights available to persons/clubs who give quality feedback.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonny

On Sep 12, 2:11 pm, Jonny <jonny.cantw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
> those of you not familiar, I runwww.rowingboatlights.comin my spare
> time), and I need your feedback.
>
> Please let me know what you like or don't like about my product, or
> any other similar units. Is there a feature you want to see that no
> one has offered yet? The more feedback I get the better I can make the
> lights in my latest re-design.
>
> While we do have some great ideas, having the wider rowing community
> have their input will mean a better product (and safer night time
> rowing!).
>
> New products are on the way apart from the redesign of the existing
> range, but feel free to offer any suggestions.
>
> Please post here or email me directly. There are a couple of free set
> of lights available to persons/clubs who give quality feedback.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonny

Hi Jonny,

quite a few girls at my club have your tadpole lights, and I've used
them a few times. They're great, but we do find the suction cups are
not always successful. We used them once on a borrowed 8 that we
couldn't modify with brackets etc, and they just wouldn't stick, no
matter how much cleaning of boat and suction cup. I like the velcro
idea that Mike suggested, if you supplied them with excess pieces of
the side to stick to the boat then once could just attach to a
borrowed boat and leave said velcro behind, or peel off when handing
boat back to owner. Or is there any way to make the suction cups
grippier?

Regarding the trend for flashing lights because they supposedly make
you more visible, I find they are very confusing when trying to work
out how fast or which way a boat is travelling. They must only be used
alongside a steady white light, and then they mustn't be so close as
to stop you being able to judge speed or direction of travel. I've
coxed a lot at night on the Tideway, and the blinking lights on some
boats in the middle distance are blinking frustrating. Are they coming
towards me? wait it's gone off, now it's back on.....well is that
closer than it was before...oh it's gone again. Your brain effectively
does subconcious differential calculus to work out how much time there
is before a moving object will reach you, for that you need a strong
steady light. Whatever speed the flash is, my poor tired post work-
brain can't do the calculation on a flashing light.

How to get people to part with their cash and buy lights? At our club
you can't go out without them in the dark or within an hour of dawn or
dusk. If you don't have access to some, you don't row. Unless everyone
gets a set with their ARA subscription, then it's really down to clubs
to educate and enforce.

Be safe out there,
Caroline x

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Caroline Gooch
<caroline.gooch@googlemail.com> wrote:

>How to get people to part with their cash and buy lights? At our club
>you can't go out without them in the dark or within an hour of dawn or
>dusk. If you don't have access to some, you don't row. Unless everyone
>gets a set with their ARA subscription, then it's really down to clubs
>to educate and enforce.

Time for a bit of thinking aloud.

So we have a problem with lights. Nothing new there. They are
awkward to fit, relying on the number slot at the bow (if your boat's
got one) and the rudder post or thin air at the stern. History, and
human nature, suggest that you can't rely on people voluntarily doing
the right thing, particularly when in some places there is a marked
absence of "official" advice and support. So we have to make it
easier.

Just suppose we had a standardised fitting at the stern and bow for a
set of lights. How hard would that be to arrange? "Empacher" slots
work, after a fashion, but aren't perfect. There's nothing stopping
you fitting a second Empacher slot at the stern to make it easier to
fit a stern light. Perhaps boat builders could be persuaded to build
them with standardised fixings for lights (a simple threaded socket
would do the job,and then you could bolt a light in place - I'm
thinking here of something along the lines of the standardised fitting
you get on cameras and tripods), and even a supply a set of lights
with every new boat. After all, as part of the purchase price of a
new boat, such additions are pretty much lost in the noise. Jonny -
have you tried to get any boat builders interested in supplying your
lights with their boats?

Carl - how would you suggest people fit lights to your boats? Would
you be interested in a "proper" light socket approach?

"Richard Packer" <usenet@rjSURNAME.org.yookay> wrote in message
news:164oc4lv44mcusv7eqdprke01lgi7iaan5@4ax.com...
> Just suppose we had a standardised fitting at the stern and bow for a
> set of lights. How hard would that be to arrange? "Empacher" slots
> work, after a fashion, but aren't perfect. There's nothing stopping
> you fitting a second Empacher slot at the stern to make it easier to
> fit a stern light. Perhaps boat builders could be persuaded to build
> them with standardised fixings for lights (a simple threaded socket
> would do the job,and then you could bolt a light in place - I'm
> thinking here of something along the lines of the standardised fitting
> you get on cameras and tripods), and even a supply a set of lights
> with every new boat. After all, as part of the purchase price of a
> new boat, such additions are pretty much lost in the noise. Jonny -
> have you tried to get any boat builders interested in supplying your
> lights with their boats?
>
> Carl - how would you suggest people fit lights to your boats? Would
> you be interested in a "proper" light socket approach?

An Empacher slot is all you need and you could put another at the stern.
Since the light fitting would be heavier than a number board you could drill
a hole through the slot cheeks and the lamp support and put a pin through to
hold it.

Richard Packer wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Caroline Gooch
> <caroline.gooch@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> How to get people to part with their cash and buy lights? At our club
>> you can't go out without them in the dark or within an hour of dawn or
>> dusk. If you don't have access to some, you don't row. Unless everyone
>> gets a set with their ARA subscription, then it's really down to clubs
>> to educate and enforce.
>
> Time for a bit of thinking aloud.
>
> So we have a problem with lights. Nothing new there. They are
> awkward to fit, relying on the number slot at the bow (if your boat's
> got one) and the rudder post or thin air at the stern. History, and
> human nature, suggest that you can't rely on people voluntarily doing
> the right thing, particularly when in some places there is a marked
> absence of "official" advice and support. So we have to make it
> easier.
>
> Just suppose we had a standardised fitting at the stern and bow for a
> set of lights. How hard would that be to arrange? "Empacher" slots
> work, after a fashion, but aren't perfect. There's nothing stopping
> you fitting a second Empacher slot at the stern to make it easier to
> fit a stern light. Perhaps boat builders could be persuaded to build
> them with standardised fixings for lights (a simple threaded socket
> would do the job,and then you could bolt a light in place - I'm
> thinking here of something along the lines of the standardised fitting
> you get on cameras and tripods), and even a supply a set of lights
> with every new boat. After all, as part of the purchase price of a
> new boat, such additions are pretty much lost in the noise. Jonny -
> have you tried to get any boat builders interested in supplying your
> lights with their boats?
>
> Carl - how would you suggest people fit lights to your boats? Would
> you be interested in a "proper" light socket approach?

I'd be very interested, Richard. Suggestions would be most welcome.

What we've done in the past, on request only, has been to mount a small
bracket in the peak of the washboards and another just astern of the
sculler's feet, onto each of which a white 180-deg light could be
mounted by means of a strap, a clip or Velcro. Easy done. All the user
needs to remember is to bring 2 lights, charged up - and remember to fit
them each time they row at night or dusk.

Now doing a bit of thinking aloud, also:

I concur with the earlier comment that shells, which are long & move
fast, are ill-represented by a single 360-deg white light, or by a pair
of 180-deg lights. Indeed we had this discussion quite recently on RSR.

AFAIK, while rowing boats may to move under just the prescribed white
light, Colregs has no rule to forbid use of full navigation lights -
i.e. red from 0 to >90-deg to port, green from 0 to >90-deg to
starboard, 180-deg white astern & 360-deg white masthead. This
configuration at night tells you all you need to make a good estimate of
that vessel's speed & bearing, be it motor- or oar-powered. The purpose
of navigation lights, as of Colregs, is collision avoidance. Avoiding
collision with another rowing shell is all about knowing its speed &
bearing, but would be helped by an indication of its considerable
length. Such visual information, given off by a four, might well have
prevented that fatal collision a couple of years back between that four
& a powerboat on the Hudson River in New York.

So I suggest that we stop being coy & minimalist, & stop pretending that
we're forbidden to use proper navigation lights. Instead let's consider
fitting the full set.

Now, as it happens, most shells are rather well set up for fitting port
& starboard sector lights since they have the washboard or cutwater just
ahead of the bowman. A green light mounted 1/2-way along on (or in) the
forward face of the starboard washboard would have good visibility over
the requisite sector, as would a red one on/in the port washboard. A
standardised aft light bracket would be easy to fit astern of the
strokeman or cox (further astern is not accessible if you find you
forgot to switch it on). A white light would suit fine on the peak of
the washboards &, if it also shone on the bowman _&_ the bowman wore a
white or reflective shirt, the boat could be rather well lit.

There is also the matter of degree of illumination. As has also been
said, urban rivers are heavily light-polluted, so a small light can be
hard or impossible to detect - even if a crew that's on a collision
course is actually looking where it's going! So I think that all
navigation lights should meet at least the usual 1-mile visibility
standard, which should give several hundred metres range of visibility
in areas of light pollution.

None of that would be hard or costly to engineer into a new boat.
However, I've given up on expecting any NGB to help to put together an
agreed & sensible set of rules for lighting on racing shells. So it is
up to individuals to do the sensible thing. The pity is that the guy
with the good lighting may still run down the twerp with the dim to
useless torch. So we do all need to do something about this. Which is
why it should come from the NGBs. Oh dear!

Cheers -
Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: carl@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)

On 12 Sep, 14:11, Jonny <jonny.cantw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I'm starting on a re-design project for my rowing boat lights (for
> those of you not familiar, I runwww.rowingboatlights.comin my spare
> time), and I need your feedback.
>
> Please let me know what you like or don't like about my product, or
> any other similar units. Is there a feature you want to see that no
> one has offered yet? The more feedback I get the better I can make the
> lights in my latest re-design.
>
> While we do have some great ideas, having the wider rowing community
> have their input will mean a better product (and safer night time
> rowing!).
>
> New products are on the way apart from the redesign of the existing
> range, but feel free to offer any suggestions.
>
> Please post here or email me directly. There are a couple of free set
> of lights available to persons/clubs who give quality feedback.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonny

Congrats on the good work.
IME, when using lights in urban areas, those bike lights which use the
LEDs with a bluish tinge stand out a mile against the reflections from
orange sodium streetlights. Maybe provide that as an option on one of
your models?
Kit

So here is a question for the scientifically minded contributor.

Now that I have gotten the rowing boat lights to work and can see where I am
going in the dark, what about my second goal, which is to scull at the speed
of light? If I achieved that goal would my boat lights still work?

Having used one of Jonny's new lights a couple of weeks ago - the big
4 LED tecklite thingo - I reckon it's bloody brilliant. I'd endorse
them as close to a compulsory fitting for any club big boat, and
possibly for singles as well.

Regarding fittings, I'm ordering a pair of number holders and some
velcro spots. I'm putting one just bow-wards of the v-piece and one
just sternwards of the cockpit.

Thus, I can reach around and turn them off when if gets light, and go
from there instead of wasting 90 mins of batteries when I only need
them for 10 minutes at the moment... And I still have to extract my
digit and actually buy some of Jonny's lights instead of just relying
on bike lights, a converted bow-number and some zip-ties.

You may wish to take my ringing endorsement of Jonny's products with a
grain of salt. Notwithstanding his products are great, he's a good
mate of mine!

On Sep 15, 4:43 am, kdav...@kidare.com wrote:
>
> Congrats on the good work.
> IME, when using lights in urban areas, those bike lights which use the
> LEDs with a bluish tinge stand out a mile against the reflections from
> orange sodium streetlights. Maybe provide that as an option on one of
> your models?
> Kit

The Guardian light does come in a blue lens version. Will need to test
one out to see what the range is as I think the tint might be quite
strong and will reduce the distance it can be seen and also make it so
blue as to make it illegal.

On Sep 15, 8:17 am, a...@irow.com wrote:
> Having used one of Jonny's new lights a couple of weeks ago - the big
> 4 LED tecklite thingo - I reckon it's bloody brilliant.  I'd endorse
> them as close to a compulsory fitting for any club big boat, and
> possibly for singles as well.

And it didn't half look naff on your boat! Just a little big for the
single...


> Thus, I can reach around and turn them off when if gets light, and go
> from there instead of wasting 90 mins of batteries when I only need
> them for 10 minutes at the moment...  

A common question - ease of turning off mid-training session. So far I
have not been able to offer this as there is no easy (ie reliable and
no-mods) mounting close to the cockpit.

> And I still have to extract my
> digit and actually buy some of Jonny's lights instead of just relying
> on bike lights, a converted bow-number and some zip-ties.

Mate - you're on a set of freebies if you ask! Consider your 2012
campaign sponsored!

> You may wish to take my ringing endorsement of Jonny's products with a
> grain of salt.  Notwithstanding his products are great, he's a good
> mate of mine!

*blush* Awww shucks, Al!

Question from a hopelessly engineeringly ignorant student of the
humanities: With all the movement going on in a boat - gates, slides
etc - isn't it possible to harness some of this to provide the power
for the lights? Or maybe it is, but not commercially viable, or, or
something...?

On 15 Sep, 13:27, mpwm...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Question from a hopelessly engineeringly ignorant student of the
> humanities:  With all the movement going on in a boat - gates, slides
> etc - isn't it possible to harness some of this to provide the power
> for the lights?  Or maybe it is, but not commercially viable, or, or
> something...?

Good idea. You could even DIY: http://www.instructables.com/id/Shake-it-like-a-Tic-Tac!/
Kit

On Sep 15, 1:27 pm, mpwm...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Question from a hopelessly engineeringly ignorant student of the
> humanities:  With all the movement going on in a boat - gates, slides
> etc - isn't it possible to harness some of this to provide the power
> for the lights?  Or maybe it is, but not commercially viable, or, or
> something...?

Could be a bit like Mrs Richard leaving the aircon on in her car
permanently, and not relating that to the petrol bills. You don't get
power out [except from the Perpetual Motion Machine I've just patented
- again] without putting power in. The "best" sources of electricity
are the ones which use power I wasn't planning to use for something
else, eg solar radiation, rain falling on mountains, sun and moon
dragging water around.

When you start generating electricity, there has to be work, and
resistance to that work ..... compare the process of cranking up a
clockwork radio.

The oarsmen I know, who have to have the cox at the front where she
can't see, and buy teeny lights 'cos decent ones weigh more, aren't
going to take kindly to sliding against an arm driving a generator
wheel.

Or something like that

Richard

On Sep 15, 3:50 pm, kdav...@kidare.com wrote:
> On 15 Sep, 13:27, mpwm...@googlemail.com wrote:
>
> > Question from a hopelessly engineeringly ignorant student of the
> > humanities:  With all the movement going on in a boat - gates, slides
> > etc - isn't it possible to harness some of this to provide the power
> > for the lights?  Or maybe it is, but not commercially viable, or, or
> > something...?
>
> Good idea. You could even DIY:http://www.instructables.com/id/Shake-it-like-a-Tic-Tac!/
> Kit

Brilliant!

On Sep 15, 12:07 am, Jonny <jonny.cantw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 15, 4:43 am, kdav...@kidare.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > Congrats on the good work.
> > IME, when using lights in urban areas, those bike lights which use the
> > LEDs with a bluish tinge stand out a mile against the reflections from
> > orange sodium streetlights. Maybe provide that as an option on one of
> > your models?
> > Kit
>
> The Guardian light does come in a blue lens version. Will need to test
> one out to see what the range is as I think the tint might be quite
> strong and will reduce the distance it can be seen and also make it so
> blue as to make it illegal.

See:

http://kourt.dehaas.com/horizons/9-19rise.jpg

The blue lights on the oars on the horizon are blue Guardians at a
distance of 250 meters. They are very brilliant and contrast greatly
with the horizon. I was testing the lights for a night racing event
in Oklahoma, and they were a huge success.

For the bow light the single greatest improvement that can be made is
to angle the light elements out from directly abeam (as in the current
design I am selling at http://arcnav.com and which Jonny has sold as
well) to a more quartering angle. When observing my current light
design from dead ahead of the oncoming shell, it can be difficult to
discern the light until the shell is within 100 meters of the
observer. The easiest way to rework the bow light mount is to have a
mount custom made in injection molded plastic to fit the bow number
slot, but with angled portions to take the mounting of the Guardian
light. See the following URL for a prototype:

http://arcnav.com/prototypes/ar-row.jpg

Note that the arrow shape lends itself to a really cool product name,
and lends a certain intuitive quality to the proper direction to mount
the light in the clip. For this mount I would still sell primarily
red/green sector lights, as I currently do with the flat reflector
card. This light configuration ensures the least ambiguity of which
part of the boat is the bow and if you are observing the port or
starboard side. Mounting on the bow just behind the bow ball ensures
that the observer sees the frontmost part of the boat and not simply a
light mounted on a washboard, which doesn't really provide an accurate
representation of the true length of the watercraft. Lastly, the
mounting near the bowball provides an excellent point to attach a
lanyard with a cordlock, which is something both Jonny and I offer in
our products.

At a local regatta in Oklahoma I have provided lights for their night
racing for a few years, and I made special strap-on bow lights that
simply wrapped snugly just behind the bow ball. I had to employ this
method because the bow number slots were occupied by bow numbers
during the sprint races. Those lights worked fairly well.

Boat design variations mean that stern lights are going to be varied
in how they mount and how they project light. Ideally you want to
conform with regulations regarding 180 degree or 360 degree light
astern, depending on which navigation light rules are you are abiding
by, but that outcome is very difficult to accomplish. Some shells
have peaked decks, others have flat decks, others have fabric or light
film decking, and all those variations make a mounting standard
impossible to nail down. Some folks hate to mar their boats with
velcro mounts. I have experimented with magnets under the decking
(and it's possible to get Guardians with magnets in the backing, thus
making a unique mounting solution, especially for the vain rowers out
there). Suction cups are nice but not perfect and will fail in
varying temperatures or with imperfect mounting surfaces. The most
reliable stern light mount I sell is the strap, which wraps around
wing riggers, but which doesn't work well for other rigger designs. I
sell a great deal of suction cup stern lights as well, and they work
well about 80% of the time, and the included lanyards correct for the
20% accidental dismount rate.

kourt
http://arcnav.com

Austin, TX