First of all, Thomas Jones looks like a running back. Cool. Also,
regardless of the fact I suspect Nuge will cost us another game, I think
Lowery is real good. Now if we could stop playing deficient players and
go with the guys we have, that would help.

I will be curious after the TD if they are resting Jenkins again and if
we allow the Fish back in the game. (He did).

Apparently, Shott has just gotten a diploma from the Hackett school of
coaching. 3rd and 2, and throw a swing out to TJ so you complete it an
don't get a first down. Can anyone splain to me how you cannot complete
a 2 yard pass on your side of the field on 3rd and 2? The threat of the
bomb is there. The threat of the 7 yard slant and out are there. The TE
can go and stop. Backs can flare out. Sure glad we proved something
challenging was doable. Not many teams could complete on 3rd and 2 and
not get a first down. This will turn out to be a key play of the game.

I was wrong. Shott and Callahan have not guts and no skill. Woody gets
the penalty on 3rd and 2. So instead of going for the win, a first down
and the game is over, the Jets give the ball back to the Fish with a
chance to win it.

Johnny, I am coming over to the dark side. Whatever happens now, this
team is comprised of bunch of ill prepared cowards.

On Sep 7, 4:27 pm, Harlan Lachman <hlach...@verizon.net> wrote:
> First of all, Thomas Jones looks like a running back. Cool. Also,
> regardless of the fact I suspect Nuge will cost us another game, I think
> Lowery is real good. Now if we could stop playing deficient players and
> go with the guys we have, that would help.
>
> I will be curious after the TD if they are resting Jenkins again and if
> we allow the Fish back in the game. (He did).
>
> Apparently, Shott has just gotten a diploma from the Hackett school of
> coaching. 3rd and 2, and throw a swing out to TJ so you complete it an
> don't get a first down. Can anyone splain to me how you cannot complete
> a 2 yard pass on your side of the field on 3rd and 2? The threat of the
> bomb is there. The threat of the 7 yard slant and out are there. The TE
> can go and stop. Backs can flare out. Sure glad we proved something
> challenging was doable. Not many teams could complete on 3rd and 2 and
> not get a first down. This will turn out to be a key play of the game.
>
> I was wrong. Shott and Callahan have not guts and no skill. Woody gets
> the penalty on 3rd and 2. So instead of going for the win, a first down
> and the game is over, the Jets give the ball back to the Fish with a
> chance to win it.
>
> Johnny, I am coming over to the dark side. Whatever happens now, this
> team is comprised of bunch of ill prepared cowards.

1. Nugent should be embarrassed for even hurting himself.

2. As far a "coaching," yeah they f'd-up this cuppo coffee. Those
stupid penalties point toward coaching, also. It seems that Mangini
has a pre-script written for every game, and when something (like
Woody's flag) pops up that wasn't in his script, he goes Hermball-
conservative by default. We have the talent this year to deliver hay-
makers, but this coaching staff still coaching working with last
year's game plan.

3. Why can't Sutton's D *ever* cover TE's ?

4. Why is Drew Coleman not in the CFL by now ?

5. Enough with the 3rd down swing passes behind LOS, everybody in the
stadium knows they're coming. Is that why they traded for Favre ??

6. We held on thanks to Mr. Lowery and Revis, and this was going to
be a tough first game in hot hot Cub....I mean Miami.

> Johnny, I am coming over to the dark side. Whatever happens now, this
> team is comprised of bunch of ill prepared cowards.

Maybe no one was open on that pass to Jones?

On Sep 7, 5:05 pm, Willie78 <steelo782...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 4:27 pm, Harlan Lachman <hlach...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > First of all, Thomas Jones looks like a running back. Cool. Also,
> > regardless of the fact I suspect Nuge will cost us another game, I think
> > Lowery is real good. Now if we could stop playing deficient players and
> > go with the guys we have, that would help.
>
> > I will be curious after the TD if they are resting Jenkins again and if
> > we allow the Fish back in the game. (He did).
>
> > Apparently, Shott has just gotten a diploma from the Hackett school of
> > coaching. 3rd and 2, and throw a swing out to TJ so you complete it an
> > don't get a first down. Can anyone splain to me how you cannot complete
> > a 2 yard pass on your side of the field on 3rd and 2? The threat of the
> > bomb is there. The threat of the 7 yard slant and out are there. The TE
> > can go and stop. Backs can flare out. Sure glad we proved something
> > challenging was doable. Not many teams could complete on 3rd and 2 and
> > not get a first down. This will turn out to be a key play of the game.
>
> > I was wrong. Shott and Callahan have not guts and no skill. Woody gets
> > the penalty on 3rd and 2. So instead of going for the win, a first down
> > and the game is over, the Jets give the ball back to the Fish with a
> > chance to win it.
>
> > Johnny, I am coming over to the dark side. Whatever happens now, this
> > team is comprised of bunch of ill prepared cowards.
>
> 1. Nugent should be embarrassed for even hurting himself.
>
> 2. As far a "coaching," yeah they f'd-up this cuppo coffee.  Those
> stupid penalties point toward coaching, also.  It seems that Mangini
> has a pre-script written for every game, and when something (like
> Woody's flag) pops up that wasn't in his script, he goes Hermball-
> conservative by default.  We have the talent this year to deliver hay-
> makers, but this coaching staff still coaching working with last
> year's game plan.
>
> 3.  Why can't Sutton's D *ever* cover TE's ?

Might have something to do with Barton, he had a tough day in
coverage.

>
> 4.  Why is Drew Coleman not in the CFL by now ?

Have to catch that one, but he did make a nice play rushing off the
edge.

>
> 5.  Enough with the 3rd down swing passes behind LOS, everybody in the
> stadium knows they're coming.  Is that why they traded for Favre ??

Once they got the 2-score lead, it felt like the Jets were very
worried about miscommunication between Favre and the WRs leading to a
turnover. They really didn't let him do anything after the Jones TD.

>
> 6.  We held on thanks to Mr. Lowery and Revis, and this was going to
> be a tough first game in hot hot Cub....I mean Miami.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 16:41:55 -0700 (PDT), JETSRULE06@yahoo.com wrote:

>On Sep 7, 5:05 pm, Willie78 <steelo782...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 7, 4:27 pm, Harlan Lachman <hlach...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > First of all, Thomas Jones looks like a running back. Cool. Also,
>> > regardless of the fact I suspect Nuge will cost us another game, I think
>> > Lowery is real good. Now if we could stop playing deficient players and
>> > go with the guys we have, that would help.
>>
>> > I will be curious after the TD if they are resting Jenkins again and if
>> > we allow the Fish back in the game. (He did).
>>
>> > Apparently, Shott has just gotten a diploma from the Hackett school of
>> > coaching. 3rd and 2, and throw a swing out to TJ so you complete it an
>> > don't get a first down. Can anyone splain to me how you cannot complete
>> > a 2 yard pass on your side of the field on 3rd and 2? The threat of the
>> > bomb is there. The threat of the 7 yard slant and out are there. The TE
>> > can go and stop. Backs can flare out. Sure glad we proved something
>> > challenging was doable. Not many teams could complete on 3rd and 2 and
>> > not get a first down. This will turn out to be a key play of the game.
>>
>> > I was wrong. Shott and Callahan have not guts and no skill. Woody gets
>> > the penalty on 3rd and 2. So instead of going for the win, a first down
>> > and the game is over, the Jets give the ball back to the Fish with a
>> > chance to win it.
>>
>> > Johnny, I am coming over to the dark side. Whatever happens now, this
>> > team is comprised of bunch of ill prepared cowards.
>>
>> 1. Nugent should be embarrassed for even hurting himself.
>>
>> 2. As far a "coaching," yeah they f'd-up this cuppo coffee.  Those
>> stupid penalties point toward coaching, also.  It seems that Mangini
>> has a pre-script written for every game, and when something (like
>> Woody's flag) pops up that wasn't in his script, he goes Hermball-
>> conservative by default.  We have the talent this year to deliver hay-
>> makers, but this coaching staff still coaching working with last
>> year's game plan.
>>
>> 3.  Why can't Sutton's D *ever* cover TE's ?
>
>Might have something to do with Barton, he had a tough day in
>coverage.
>
>>
>> 4.  Why is Drew Coleman not in the CFL by now ?
>
>Have to catch that one, but he did make a nice play rushing off the
>edge.
>
>>
>> 5.  Enough with the 3rd down swing passes behind LOS, everybody in the
>> stadium knows they're coming.  Is that why they traded for Favre ??
>
>Once they got the 2-score lead, it felt like the Jets were very
>worried about miscommunication between Favre and the WRs leading to a
>turnover. They really didn't let him do anything after the Jones TD.
>

I think you make a great point here. While I hate the Hermball redux, I was thinking on
similar lines, that they're being overly conservative with Favre, as he learns the
players/offense... or at least, I hope that's it ;)


>>
>> 6.  We held on thanks to Mr. Lowery and Revis, and this was going to
>> be a tough first game in hot hot Cub....I mean Miami.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

> I think you make a great point here. While I hate the Hermball redux, I was thinking on
> similar lines, that they're being overly conservative with Favre, as he learns the
> players/offense... or at least, I hope that's it ;)

I am with you.

I was hoping for a roll out on that final 3rd down or a play action.
He could have thrown it away if there was a problem.

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 06:10:59 -0700 (PDT), "John C (tx)" <jcnytx@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I think you make a great point here. While I hate the Hermball redux, I was thinking on
>> similar lines, that they're being overly conservative with Favre, as he learns the
>> players/offense... or at least, I hope that's it ;)
>
>I am with you.
>
>I was hoping for a roll out on that final 3rd down or a play action.
>He could have thrown it away if there was a problem.

I'm concerned about Mangini, though.
His first season, he seemed to take smart risks, while last season, he was already showing
more of a fearball mentality. And yesterday...
So, we'll soon see if it's the Favre newness, or Mangini has gone Hermball on us.
We need a Progressive coach, not a Conservative one ;)

> I'm concerned about Mangini, though.

In fairness to him if Nugent makes the first kick we were on our way
to a blow out.

> His first season, he seemed to take smart risks, while last season, he was already showing
> more of a fearball mentality. And yesterday...

Mangini can try all he wants but Favre has that streak of nut job in
him.

> So, we'll soon see if it's the Favre newness, or Mangini has gone Hermball on us.
> We need a Progressive coach, not a Conservative one ;)

buRford wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 06:10:59 -0700 (PDT), "John C (tx)" <jcnytx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I think you make a great point here. While I hate the Hermball redux, I was thinking on
>>> similar lines, that they're being overly conservative with Favre, as he learns the
>>> players/offense... or at least, I hope that's it ;)
>> I am with you.
>>
>> I was hoping for a roll out on that final 3rd down or a play action.
>> He could have thrown it away if there was a problem.
>
> I'm concerned about Mangini, though.
> His first season, he seemed to take smart risks, while last season, he was already showing
> more of a fearball mentality. And yesterday...
> So, we'll soon see if it's the Favre newness, or Mangini has gone Hermball on us.
> We need a Progressive coach, not a Conservative one ;)

I don't believe what I just read! Where's the Love? The Idolatry? The
Passion? How fickle of you!

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:28:38 -0700, Johnny Morongo <Mirehiel@harmonicconcordance.com>
wrote:

>buRford wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 06:10:59 -0700 (PDT), "John C (tx)" <jcnytx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> I think you make a great point here. While I hate the Hermball redux, I was thinking on
>>>> similar lines, that they're being overly conservative with Favre, as he learns the
>>>> players/offense... or at least, I hope that's it ;)
>>> I am with you.
>>>
>>> I was hoping for a roll out on that final 3rd down or a play action.
>>> He could have thrown it away if there was a problem.
>>
>> I'm concerned about Mangini, though.
>> His first season, he seemed to take smart risks, while last season, he was already showing
>> more of a fearball mentality. And yesterday...
>> So, we'll soon see if it's the Favre newness, or Mangini has gone Hermball on us.
>> We need a Progressive coach, not a Conservative one ;)
>
>I don't believe what I just read! Where's the Love? The Idolatry? The
>Passion? How fickle of you!

That Idolatry was only in your Revisionist Reality world ;)

buRford wrote:

>>> So, we'll soon see if it's the Favre newness, or Mangini has gone Hermball on us.
>>> We need a Progressive coach, not a Conservative one ;)
>> I don't believe what I just read! Where's the Love? The Idolatry? The
>> Passion? How fickle of you!
>
> That Idolatry was only in your Revisionist Reality world ;)

Yeah, right.

On Sep 9, 2:18 pm, Johnny Morongo <Mireh...@harmonicconcordance.com>
wrote:
> buRford wrote:
> >>> So, we'll soon see if it's the Favre newness, or Mangini has gone Hermball on us.
> >>> We need a Progressive coach, not a Conservative one ;)
> >> I don't believe what I just read!  Where's the Love?  The Idolatry?  The
> >> Passion?  How fickle of you!
>
> > That Idolatry was only in your Revisionist Reality world ;)
>
> Yeah, right.

Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?

"cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
>fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
>this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?

But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only matters
how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
defense.

MZ wrote:
> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
>> fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
>> this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
>
> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only matters
> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
> defense.
>
>
They were bending pretty good in the 4th. I think the heat finally got
to them at the end of the game. I think Chad should have thrown the
ball away, and thats what I thought he was doing. But the Jets made the
play, and the Dolphins didn't. Game over.

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:42:07 -0400, Deadmeat <noone@home.com> wrote:

>MZ wrote:
>> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
>>> fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
>>> this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
>>
>> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only matters
>> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
>> defense.
>>
>>
>They were bending pretty good in the 4th. I think the heat finally got
>to them at the end of the game. I think Chad should have thrown the
>ball away, and thats what I thought he was doing. But the Jets made the
>play, and the Dolphins didn't. Game over.

It's also the D philosophy they get into. They tend to get too conservative.
If they had a better base pass rush, I could understand it. But since they need a LB to
blitz, to get their sacks, they give up too much easy yardage.
I'd like to see them blitz, now & then, when the game's on the line. Just to keep teams
honest.

In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
"MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
>
> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only matters
> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
> defense.

Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement. IT
makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
make a bad call, we lose.

Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
double deflected pass :-(

harlan

"Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hlachman-98C9A0.13153710092008@web.aioe.org...
> In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>
>> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
>> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
>> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
>>
>> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only
>> matters
>> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
>> defense.
>
> Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement. IT
> makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
> make a bad call, we lose.
>
> Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
> double deflected pass :-(

All you've got is "ifs", Harlan? The whole point of the bend but don't
break is to prevent worst case scenarios from happening. You keep the ball
in front of you, which does two things: 1) it prevents the quick score,
which is prevalent in today's NFL; and 2) it forces turnovers. You're
basically forcing the other team to earn their points by creating long
sustained drives. You eliminate the cheap-o TDs. Then when you get to the
red zone you tighten things up because there's less field to be responsible
for. It's a proven strategy.

In article <VNCdnfubXbqih1XVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>,
"MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hlachman-98C9A0.13153710092008@web.aioe.org...
> > In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >
> >> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
> >> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
> >> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
> >>
> >> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only
> >> matters
> >> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
> >> defense.
> >
> > Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement. IT
> > makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
> > make a bad call, we lose.
> >
> > Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
> > double deflected pass :-(
>
> All you've got is "ifs", Harlan? The whole point of the bend but don't
> break is to prevent worst case scenarios from happening. You keep the ball
> in front of you, which does two things: 1) it prevents the quick score,
> which is prevalent in today's NFL; and 2) it forces turnovers. You're
> basically forcing the other team to earn their points by creating long
> sustained drives. You eliminate the cheap-o TDs. Then when you get to the
> red zone you tighten things up because there's less field to be responsible
> for. It's a proven strategy.

Wasn't this thread about the offensive play calling before the punt? If
so, are you advocating for a try to prevent a turnover approach as
opposed to a play that can get you a first down and win the game?

harlan

"Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hlachman-E21F09.18125210092008@web.aioe.org...
> In article <VNCdnfubXbqih1XVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>
>> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:hlachman-98C9A0.13153710092008@web.aioe.org...
>> > In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
>> >> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
>> >> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
>> >>
>> >> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only
>> >> matters
>> >> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
>> >> defense.
>> >
>> > Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement. IT
>> > makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
>> > make a bad call, we lose.
>> >
>> > Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
>> > double deflected pass :-(
>>
>> All you've got is "ifs", Harlan? The whole point of the bend but don't
>> break is to prevent worst case scenarios from happening. You keep the
>> ball
>> in front of you, which does two things: 1) it prevents the quick score,
>> which is prevalent in today's NFL; and 2) it forces turnovers. You're
>> basically forcing the other team to earn their points by creating long
>> sustained drives. You eliminate the cheap-o TDs. Then when you get to
>> the
>> red zone you tighten things up because there's less field to be
>> responsible
>> for. It's a proven strategy.
>
> Wasn't this thread about the offensive play calling before the punt? If
> so, are you advocating for a try to prevent a turnover approach as
> opposed to a play that can get you a first down and win the game?

The thread morphed into a criticism of the Jets D. Check out cd's post.

You Jets fans are all alike. Even depressed after a win.

In article <S-WdnRs80MEE2lXVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:

> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:hlachman-E21F09.18125210092008@web.aioe.org...
> > In article <VNCdnfubXbqih1XVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >
> >> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> news:hlachman-98C9A0.13153710092008@web.aioe.org...
> >> > In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com..
> >> >> .
> >> >> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
> >> >> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
> >> >> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
> >> >>
> >> >> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only
> >> >> matters
> >> >> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
> >> >> defense.
> >> >
> >> > Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement. IT
> >> > makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
> >> > make a bad call, we lose.
> >> >
> >> > Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
> >> > double deflected pass :-(
> >>
> >> All you've got is "ifs", Harlan? The whole point of the bend but don't
> >> break is to prevent worst case scenarios from happening. You keep the
> >> ball
> >> in front of you, which does two things: 1) it prevents the quick score,
> >> which is prevalent in today's NFL; and 2) it forces turnovers. You're
> >> basically forcing the other team to earn their points by creating long
> >> sustained drives. You eliminate the cheap-o TDs. Then when you get to
> >> the
> >> red zone you tighten things up because there's less field to be
> >> responsible
> >> for. It's a proven strategy.
> >
> > Wasn't this thread about the offensive play calling before the punt? If
> > so, are you advocating for a try to prevent a turnover approach as
> > opposed to a play that can get you a first down and win the game?
>
> The thread morphed into a criticism of the Jets D. Check out cd's post.
>
> You Jets fans are all alike. Even depressed after a win.

Ask me after next week ;-). I suspect if we win I will be more
forgiving. The reason I am so depressed is that Johnny has convinced me
that our CS may not be able to utilize our talent commensurate with
their ability.

h

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:43:16 -0400, Harlan Lachman <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote:

>In article <S-WdnRs80MEE2lXVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>
>> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:hlachman-E21F09.18125210092008@web.aioe.org...
>> > In article <VNCdnfubXbqih1XVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:hlachman-98C9A0.13153710092008@web.aioe.org...
>> >> > In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com..
>> >> >> .
>> >> >> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
>> >> >> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense and
>> >> >> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only
>> >> >> matters
>> >> >> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't break
>> >> >> defense.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement. IT
>> >> > makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
>> >> > make a bad call, we lose.
>> >> >
>> >> > Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
>> >> > double deflected pass :-(
>> >>
>> >> All you've got is "ifs", Harlan? The whole point of the bend but don't
>> >> break is to prevent worst case scenarios from happening. You keep the
>> >> ball
>> >> in front of you, which does two things: 1) it prevents the quick score,
>> >> which is prevalent in today's NFL; and 2) it forces turnovers. You're
>> >> basically forcing the other team to earn their points by creating long
>> >> sustained drives. You eliminate the cheap-o TDs. Then when you get to
>> >> the
>> >> red zone you tighten things up because there's less field to be
>> >> responsible
>> >> for. It's a proven strategy.
>> >
>> > Wasn't this thread about the offensive play calling before the punt? If
>> > so, are you advocating for a try to prevent a turnover approach as
>> > opposed to a play that can get you a first down and win the game?
>>
>> The thread morphed into a criticism of the Jets D. Check out cd's post.
>>
>> You Jets fans are all alike. Even depressed after a win.
>
>Ask me after next week ;-). I suspect if we win I will be more
>forgiving. The reason I am so depressed is that Johnny has convinced me
>that our CS may not be able to utilize our talent commensurate with
>their ability.
>

H, I had you pegged as of a rational bent, but being persuaded by chicken little?

In article <hm3ic497htppn2v9h0rtitjeopm4gljehu@4ax.com>,
buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:43:16 -0400, Harlan Lachman <hlachman@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <S-WdnRs80MEE2lXVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >
> >> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> news:hlachman-E21F09.18125210092008@web.aioe.org...
> >> > In article <VNCdnfubXbqih1XVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:hlachman-98C9A0.13153710092008@web.aioe.org...
> >> >> > In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> >> >> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.co
> >> >> >> m..
> >> >> >> .
> >> >> >> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
> >> >> >> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense
> >> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only
> >> >> >> matters
> >> >> >> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't
> >> >> >> break
> >> >> >> defense.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement.
> >> >> > IT
> >> >> > makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
> >> >> > make a bad call, we lose.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
> >> >> > double deflected pass :-(
> >> >>
> >> >> All you've got is "ifs", Harlan? The whole point of the bend but don't
> >> >> break is to prevent worst case scenarios from happening. You keep the
> >> >> ball
> >> >> in front of you, which does two things: 1) it prevents the quick score,
> >> >> which is prevalent in today's NFL; and 2) it forces turnovers. You're
> >> >> basically forcing the other team to earn their points by creating long
> >> >> sustained drives. You eliminate the cheap-o TDs. Then when you get to
> >> >> the
> >> >> red zone you tighten things up because there's less field to be
> >> >> responsible
> >> >> for. It's a proven strategy.
> >> >
> >> > Wasn't this thread about the offensive play calling before the punt? If
> >> > so, are you advocating for a try to prevent a turnover approach as
> >> > opposed to a play that can get you a first down and win the game?
> >>
> >> The thread morphed into a criticism of the Jets D. Check out cd's post.
> >>
> >> You Jets fans are all alike. Even depressed after a win.
> >
> >Ask me after next week ;-). I suspect if we win I will be more
> >forgiving. The reason I am so depressed is that Johnny has convinced me
> >that our CS may not be able to utilize our talent commensurate with
> >their ability.
> >
>
> H, I had you pegged as of a rational bent, but being persuaded by chicken
> little?

I care less about the source than the arguments. And the play calling
and use of personnel last game was disappointing. I thought we dominated
the game. Yet, dominance with only one bad call or a slip could have led
to a loss.

Harlan

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:19:50 -0400, Harlan Lachman <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote:

>In article <hm3ic497htppn2v9h0rtitjeopm4gljehu@4ax.com>,
> buRford <buRford@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:43:16 -0400, Harlan Lachman <hlachman@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <S-WdnRs80MEE2lXVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:hlachman-E21F09.18125210092008@web.aioe.org...
>> >> > In article <VNCdnfubXbqih1XVnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Harlan Lachman" <hlachman@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:hlachman-98C9A0.13153710092008@web.aioe.org...
>> >> >> > In article <uu6dnQTBlfxbRlvVnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> >> > "MZ" <mark@nospam.void> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> "cd" <cd2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:08dbdb31-7a53-446d-947a-cfd46baae63b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.co
>> >> >> >> m..
>> >> >> >> .
>> >> >> >> >Penny marched the Dolphins three times down to the redzone in the
>> >> >> >> >fourth quarter. A better WR core or a team with a better offense
>> >> >> >> >and
>> >> >> >> >this is a loss for the Jets. Can the Jets get a stop?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> But it doesn't matter how far the team got in the red zone. It only
>> >> >> >> matters
>> >> >> >> how many points they came away with. That's the bend but don't
>> >> >> >> break
>> >> >> >> defense.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Mark, the loss of Brady must be effecting your excellent judgement.
>> >> >> > IT
>> >> >> > makes a huge difference. On the last play if Revis slips or the refs
>> >> >> > make a bad call, we lose.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Never leave a game so it can be decided by a bad call, a slip, or a
>> >> >> > double deflected pass :-(
>> >> >>
>> >> >> All you've got is "ifs", Harlan? The whole point of the bend but don't
>> >> >> break is to prevent worst case scenarios from happening. You keep the
>> >> >> ball
>> >> >> in front of you, which does two things: 1) it prevents the quick score,
>> >> >> which is prevalent in today's NFL; and 2) it forces turnovers. You're
>> >> >> basically forcing the other team to earn their points by creating long
>> >> >> sustained drives. You eliminate the cheap-o TDs. Then when you get to
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> red zone you tighten things up because there's less field to be
>> >> >> responsible
>> >> >> for. It's a proven strategy.
>> >> >
>> >> > Wasn't this thread about the offensive play calling before the punt? If
>> >> > so, are you advocating for a try to prevent a turnover approach as
>> >> > opposed to a play that can get you a first down and win the game?
>> >>
>> >> The thread morphed into a criticism of the Jets D. Check out cd's post.
>> >>
>> >> You Jets fans are all alike. Even depressed after a win.
>> >
>> >Ask me after next week ;-). I suspect if we win I will be more
>> >forgiving. The reason I am so depressed is that Johnny has convinced me
>> >that our CS may not be able to utilize our talent commensurate with
>> >their ability.
>> >
>>
>> H, I had you pegged as of a rational bent, but being persuaded by chicken
>> little?
>
>I care less about the source than the arguments. And the play calling
>and use of personnel last game was disappointing. I thought we dominated
>the game. Yet, dominance with only one bad call or a slip could have led
>to a loss.
>

Agreed.
But, I think we need to give a few games, in view of the Favre, Jenkins, Pace, etc newness
factor. We also don't know if Jenkins was winded, when he was off the field, first real
game & all.

The play-calling, on the other hand... well, you know my thoughts on Schott, & Mangini's
lack of daring since his first year.