What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have? Why did it take 2/3 of a
season to get Dickerson up? He is the best leadoff/centerfielder we have
seen all year. How much of an impact would he have made had he been here
for 2/3 of a season. Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.

On Sep 1, 10:55 am, "Michael Benvie" <benviefam...@windstream.net>
wrote:
> What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have? Why did it take 2/3 of a
> season to get Dickerson up? He is the best leadoff/centerfielder we have
> seen all year. How much of an impact would he have made had he been here
> for 2/3 of a season. Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
> played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.

It's 17 games. Doesn't mean anything.

On Sep 1, 4:10 pm, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 10:55 am, "Michael Benvie" <benviefam...@windstream.net>
> wrote:
>
> > What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have?  Why did it take 2/3 of a
> > season to get Dickerson up?  He is the best leadoff/centerfielder we have
> > seen all year.  How much of an impact would he have made had he been here
> > for 2/3 of a season.  Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
> > played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.
>
> It's 17 games.  Doesn't mean anything.

but but sample sizes don't lie... ;-)

tom dunne wrote:
> On Sep 1, 10:55 am, "Michael Benvie" <benviefam...@windstream.net>
> wrote:
>> What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have? Why did it take 2/3 of a
>> season to get Dickerson up? He is the best leadoff/centerfielder we have
>> seen all year. How much of an impact would he have made had he been here
>> for 2/3 of a season. Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
>> played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.
>
> It's 17 games. Doesn't mean anything.

Two edged there.

Dickerson doesn't project to be any kind of star and it's doubtful that
he could hold a regular starting major league job for a full season.
It's possible.

The real question is...if you have Chris Dickerson in your system, why
do you sign and play Cory Patterson? The reds are crying about how cash
poor they are, why pay Patterson when you've got Dickerson repeating
levels of AAA? It just seems a waste of resources.

dfs

On Sep 2, 8:44 am, David Short <David.no.Sh...@Spam.Wright.Please.edu>
wrote:
> tom dunne wrote:
> > On Sep 1, 10:55 am, "Michael Benvie" <benviefam...@windstream.net>
> > wrote:
> >> What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have?  Why did it take 2/3 ofa
> >> season to get Dickerson up?  He is the best leadoff/centerfielder wehave
> >> seen all year.  How much of an impact would he have made had he beenhere
> >> for 2/3 of a season.  Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
> >> played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.
>
> > It's 17 games.  Doesn't mean anything.
>
> Two edged there.
>
> Dickerson doesn't project to be any kind of star and it's doubtful that
> he could hold a regular starting major league job for a full season.
> It's possible.
>
> The real question is...if you have Chris Dickerson in your system, why
> do you sign and play Cory Patterson?

Because your manager is Dusty Baker. I'm pretty sure that CP wasn't
Krivsky's recommendation.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 08:44:21 -0400, David Short
<David.no.Short@Spam.Wright.Please.edu> wrote:

>tom dunne wrote:
>> On Sep 1, 10:55 am, "Michael Benvie" <benviefam...@windstream.net>
>> wrote:
>>> What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have? Why did it take 2/3 of a
>>> season to get Dickerson up? He is the best leadoff/centerfielder we have
>>> seen all year. How much of an impact would he have made had he been here
>>> for 2/3 of a season. Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
>>> played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.
>>
>> It's 17 games. Doesn't mean anything.
>
>Two edged there.
>
>Dickerson doesn't project to be any kind of star and it's doubtful that
>he could hold a regular starting major league job for a full season.
>It's possible.
>
>The real question is...if you have Chris Dickerson in your system, why
>do you sign and play Cory Patterson? The reds are crying about how cash
>poor they are, why pay Patterson when you've got Dickerson repeating
>levels of AAA? It just seems a waste of resources.

Didn't you already answer the question yourself? Because " it's doubtful
that he could hold a regular starting major league job for a full
season?" If that's the case, there's really no *harm* in having him on
the AAA roster, if he's not blocking someone better.

It really isn't even taking a chance any more to play him with nothing
on the line for the team.

******************************************************************
Kevin McClave

"To justify himself, each relies on
the other's crime." ~Albert Camus
******************************************************************

On Sep 2, 11:46 am, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 8:44 am, David Short <David.no.Sh...@Spam.Wright.Please.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > The real question is...if you have Chris Dickerson in your system, why
> > do you sign and play Cory Patterson?
>
> Because your manager is Dusty Baker.  I'm pretty sure that CP wasn't
> Krivsky's recommendation.

But it's equally improbable that Baker wanted Patterson. Their
relationship
was at the "pistols at dawn" stage when they parted company.

For some reason Baker wasn't happy with a starting CF who
was putting up a 54 OPS+. (He was much less stubborn about
leading him off in 2005. Only 29 games. Indeed Baker's
bouncing him all over the order was one of the sources of
friction iirc)

Interesting in that an awful lot of players have had career years
under Baker, while with Patterson -- well he's been truly wretched
only twice (in regular play that is) and Bak3er's been the manager.

I know 2002 and 2007 weren't pretty, but with his glove that
works and speed that works out to a player who can help most
teams. 4th OF, pinch-runner, defensive replacement. It's a
replacement level bat with a lot of little things going for him.

And that's pretty much what it was reasonable to expect.

On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Ron Johnson
<johnson@ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:

>On Sep 2, 11:46=A0am, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 8:44=A0am, David Short <David.no.Sh...@Spam.Wright.Please.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > The real question is...if you have Chris Dickerson in your system, why
>> > do you sign and play Cory Patterson?
>>
>> Because your manager is Dusty Baker. =A0I'm pretty sure that CP wasn't
>> Krivsky's recommendation.
>
>But it's equally improbable that Baker wanted Patterson. Their
>relationship
>was at the "pistols at dawn" stage when they parted company.
>

I can't find it at the moment, but I'd swear that I saw a quote
somewhere from Krivsky saying that he had nothing to do with CP, that
Dusty had went straight to the owner for him.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 08:44:21 -0400, David Short
<David.no.Short@Spam.Wright.Please.edu> wrote:

>tom dunne wrote:
>> On Sep 1, 10:55 am, "Michael Benvie" <benviefam...@windstream.net>
>> wrote:
>>> What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have? Why did it take 2/3 of a
>>> season to get Dickerson up? He is the best leadoff/centerfielder we have
>>> seen all year. How much of an impact would he have made had he been here
>>> for 2/3 of a season. Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
>>> played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.
>>
>> It's 17 games. Doesn't mean anything.
>
>Two edged there.
>
>Dickerson doesn't project to be any kind of star and it's doubtful that
>he could hold a regular starting major league job for a full season.
>It's possible.
>
>The real question is...if you have Chris Dickerson in your system, why
>do you sign and play Cory Patterson? The reds are crying about how cash
>poor they are, why pay Patterson when you've got Dickerson repeating
>levels of AAA? It just seems a waste of resources.

Are they making noise about cash? Of all the bad things that have
been going on, I haven't seen any indications of poor mouthing yet.

On Sep 4, 9:43 am, t...@nomail.please (JustTom) wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Ron Johnson
>
> <john...@ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:
> >On Sep 2, 11:46=A0am, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sep 2, 8:44=A0am, David Short <David.no.Sh...@Spam.Wright.Please.edu>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > The real question is...if you have Chris Dickerson in your system, why
> >> > do you sign and play Cory Patterson?
>
> >> Because your manager is Dusty Baker. =A0I'm pretty sure that CP wasn't
> >> Krivsky's recommendation.
>
> >But it's equally improbable that Baker wanted Patterson. Their
> >relationship
> >was at the "pistols at dawn" stage when they parted company.
>
> I can't find it at the moment, but I'd swear that I saw a quote
> somewhere from Krivsky saying that he had nothing to do with CP, that
> Dusty had went straight to the owner for him.

Yeah, I'm going with what Krivsky was quoted saying on Hal McCoy's
blog. Full article is here:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/04/28/krivskys_final_say.html

***
And then there was the $3 million paid to outfielder Corey Patterson

“I was told to get him signed, whatever it takes,” said Krivsky, who
signed him for $3 million. Patterson was paid $4.7 million last year.
***

I guess the order itself came from Castellini, but I can't imagine the
initial idea came from anyone but Baker. Prior history aside, who
with the Reds was connected enough to Patterson to insist upon the
signing other than Dusty? I expect that when he negotiated his
contract, Baker also wanted some sort of roster input, hence Patterson
and Hairston Jr.

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:28:14 -0700 (PDT), tom dunne <dunnetg@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 4, 9:43=A0am, t...@nomail.please (JustTom) wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Ron Johnson
>>
>>
>> I can't find it at the moment, but I'd swear that I saw a quote
>> somewhere from Krivsky saying that he had nothing to do with CP, that
>> Dusty had went straight to the owner for him.
>
>Yeah, I'm going with what Krivsky was quoted saying on Hal McCoy's
>blog. Full article is here:
>http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincin=
>natireds/entries/2008/04/28/krivskys_final_say.html

I remember reading that entry, because Hal was throwing his "friend"
WK under the bus, but this was more recent.

A little more googling, and I come up with this:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/08/11/dunn_dealt_to_diamondbacks.html


The comment by birdie41is referring to what I'm talking about. I
either listened to Krivsky himself say that CP was all Dusty's idea on
the radio, or I read a transcript or article about it somewhere else.


He basically said that he had nothing to do with it, and I'm pretty
sure he said that Dusty had went to Bob himself for it, and that Bob
had been the one to tell him to get CP signed.

<paste>
This comment:

By BIRDIE41

August 11, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this
Terrible Move by Jock I think these 2 moves of getting rid of Griffey
and Dunn is a way to make Dusty happy so that he can play his all time
favorite ballplayer(?) Corey Patterson every day in the outfield so
that he might accidently be able to get his average down to the .100
mark.I finally heard Krivsky(on WLW today) say that the signing of
Patterson was all Dusty’s idea which everyone surely knew all along.
So now how to we get rid of Dusty & Corey?If Dunn was only worth an
injured pitcher what could we get for them,maybe a few broken bats?
Bob Castellini has and will continue to ruin this team and the city of
Cincinnati!!!!

<paste>

On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:55:57 -0400, "Michael Benvie"
<benviefamily@windstream.net> gave us:

>What kind of Judge of Talent do/did we have? Why did it take 2/3 of a
>season to get Dickerson up? He is the best leadoff/centerfielder we have
>seen all year. How much of an impact would he have made had he been here
>for 2/3 of a season. Imagine if had they brought up Dickerson (and he
>played like is now) instead of Patterson back up when Keppinger got hurt.

Don't fall in love in September, Michael. You're bound to have your
heart broken by May.

--
Lance

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can
fake that, you've got it made." - Groucho Marx


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