last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
tight division race with the bosox.

attendance at the trop? 13,000.

WORST in the entire major league!

the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.

St pete is a nothing baseball town.

stephenj wrote:
> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
> tight division race with the bosox.
>
> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
>
> WORST in the entire major league!
>
> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
>
> St pete is a nothing baseball town.

They have 20+ years left on their lease at the Tropi-dump. Going nowhere.

I'd prefer to see them in a new stadium near the I-4/I-75 area to make
them more accessible, but I'm not an owner.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:15:39 -0500, stephenj <sjex@cox.com> wrote:

|last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
|tight division race with the bosox.
|
|attendance at the trop? 13,000.
|
|WORST in the entire major league!
|
|the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
|
|St pete is a nothing baseball town.
|
|----------

Moving the team anywhere in Hillsborough County will impact the
attendance by about 1 to 2% more at best. People that make excuses not
to attend games at the Trop will find an excuse to not attend games
within Hillsborough Co.

james

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:24:00 -0400, Flycoon
<Flycoon@gooberville.boosters> wrote:

|stephenj wrote:
|> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
|> tight division race with the bosox.
|>
|> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
|>
|> WORST in the entire major league!
|>
|> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
|>
|> St pete is a nothing baseball town.
|
|They have 20+ years left on their lease at the Tropi-dump. Going nowhere.
|
|I'd prefer to see them in a new stadium near the I-4/I-75 area to make
|them more accessible, but I'm not an owner.
|-----------------

Will not make a significant difference.

james

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:24:00 -0400, Flycoon
<Flycoon@gooberville.boosters> wrote:

|stephenj wrote:
|> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
|> tight division race with the bosox.
|>
|> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
|>
|> WORST in the entire major league!
|>
|> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
|>
|> St pete is a nothing baseball town.
|
|They have 20+ years left on their lease at the Tropi-dump. Going nowhere.
|
|I'd prefer to see them in a new stadium near the I-4/I-75 area to make
|them more accessible, but I'm not an owner.
|
|----------

Consider this the draw area for the Rays is Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater/
Lakeland/Sarasota and Bradenton areas. That is about a 100 mile radius
around the stadium. Moved the stadium to I4 and I75 and the draw area
still is a 100 mile radius.

Yes it is closer to those in the lakeland/Brandon/New Tampa area. Yet
is it farther away from the St Pete area. Those that complain thta it
is to far away to drive too will only change who complains. Move it to
appease one group and another is displeased.

The real issue is that to and from the stadium lacks the mass transit
sysem that much of the northern cities have. Even the proposed Bayside
location would be plagued by low turnout as parking there would be
worse for a day game. Second issue is that St Pete and Tampa has to
put their egos in a box and cooperate on a mass transit sytem between
the two cities and counties. They need to stop acting as if they are
the only city in the area and cooperate more. The Rays are not just St
Petersburg's team they are the regional team for several cities and
six counties. Untill then, it is status quo no matter where the team
is located in the area.

james

On Aug 27, 11:24 am, Flycoon <Flyc...@gooberville.boosters> wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
> > last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
> > tight division race with the bosox.
>
> > attendance at the trop? 13,000.
>
> > WORST in the entire major league!
>
> > the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
>
> > St pete is a nothing baseball town.
>
> They have 20+ years left on their lease at the Tropi-dump.  Going nowhere.
>
> I'd prefer to see them in a new stadium near the I-4/I-75 area to make
> them more accessible, but I'm not an owner.

yes, unfortunately the trop is not anywhere near the 'geographic
center' of the Tampa Bay area, at least not in terms of population and
accessibility. Your location would draw many more fans.

On Aug 27, 12:30 pm, james <geo...@washington.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:24:00 -0400, Flycoon
>
> <Flyc...@gooberville.boosters> wrote:
> |stephenj wrote:
>
> |> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
> |> tight division race with the bosox.
> |>
> |> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
> |>
> |> WORST in the entire major league!
> |>
> |> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
> |>
> |> St pete is a nothing baseball town.
> |
> |They have 20+ years left on their lease at the Tropi-dump.  Going nowhere.
> |
> |I'd prefer to see them in a new stadium near the I-4/I-75 area to make
> |them more accessible, but I'm not an owner.
> |
> |----------
>
> Consider this the draw area for the Rays is Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater/
> Lakeland/Sarasota and Bradenton areas. That is about a 100 mile radius
> around the stadium. Moved the stadium to I4 and I75 and the draw area
> still is a 100 mile radius.
>
> Yes it is closer to those in the lakeland/Brandon/New Tampa area. Yet
> is it farther away from the St Pete area. Those that complain thta it
> is to far away to drive too will only change who complains. Move it to
> appease one group and another is displeased.

I doubt you are right. there are probably twice as many potential b-
ball attendees on the tampa side of the bay, but if you are that just
means the entire TB area is unsuitable for MLB.

Sure, an intra-bay mass-transit system would help, but no way are the
cities going to invest 100s of millions in that just to facilitate
baseball, so it's a non-starter.

Attendance at the Trop means very little if you're using it to judge local
support of the team...
Radio and television ratings are through the roof...merchandise is on
fire...!

Oh and by the way (FYI)...there are (or there were) more Buc season ticket
holders that reside in Pinellas County than in Hillsborough...

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:55:02 -0700 (PDT), sjaros3@home.com wrote:

|On Aug 27, 12:30 pm, james <geo...@washington.edu> wrote:
|> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:24:00 -0400, Flycoon
|>
|> <Flyc...@gooberville.boosters> wrote:
|> |stephenj wrote:
|>
|> |> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
|> |> tight division race with the bosox.
|> |>
|> |> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
|> |>
|> |> WORST in the entire major league!
|> |>
|> |> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
|> |>
|> |> St pete is a nothing baseball town.
|> |
|> |They have 20+ years left on their lease at the Tropi-dump.  Going nowhere.
|> |
|> |I'd prefer to see them in a new stadium near the I-4/I-75 area to make
|> |them more accessible, but I'm not an owner.
|> |
|> |----------
|>
|> Consider this the draw area for the Rays is Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater/
|> Lakeland/Sarasota and Bradenton areas. That is about a 100 mile radius
|> around the stadium. Moved the stadium to I4 and I75 and the draw area
|> still is a 100 mile radius.
|>
|> Yes it is closer to those in the lakeland/Brandon/New Tampa area. Yet
|> is it farther away from the St Pete area. Those that complain thta it
|> is to far away to drive too will only change who complains. Move it to
|> appease one group and another is displeased.
|
|I doubt you are right. there are probably twice as many potential b-
|ball attendees on the tampa side of the bay, but if you are that just
|means the entire TB area is unsuitable for MLB.
|
|------------

Trust me I saw the same thing down in the Marlins territory in the
90's. There were more season ticket holders in Palm Beach county than
in Dade County at one time. West Palm Beach is a 80 mile drive. The
Marlins didn't even sell out one or two WS of their games against the
Indians. Here in Florida the cities are built out in a sprawl unlike
older northern cities. Even downtown Tampa has less than two dozen
buildings taller than 25 stories. You have enough from the overall
area to get a goood 15K on a regular basis and with the Red Sox and
Yankees you can get upwards to 32K.

This area has no long term history in baseball other than spring
training. Down here during the summer there is a lot more to do and
the ocean is often less than 30 minute drive. Until the Rays get a
history of winning seasons and competitive baseball the attendance is
going to be thin. Even with 13K, that is 5K more than last year at
this time.


|Sure, an intra-bay mass-transit system would help, but no way are the
|cities going to invest 100s of millions in that just to facilitate
|baseball, so it's a non-starter.
|
|--------------

Not just for baseball. This area needs an intra-bay mass transit
system period. There are thousands each day that make the trek across
the three bridges in both directions for work. My work often takes me
into Pinellas County even though I live and work in Hillsborough
County. I eat out in restuarants more in Pinellas county that I do in
Hillsborough County simply due to ease of access. Going north from
south Tampa at 5PM is a nightmare. Easier to cross the bridge and eat
in Pinellas Park.

james

>last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
>tight division race with the bosox.
>
>attendance at the trop? 13,000.
>
>WORST in the entire major league!
>
>the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
>
>St pete is a nothing baseball town.

What are ticket prices like?

I remember the Oakland A's during their dynasty period drawing fewer
than 1000 in some games.


--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/

Think it's bad now? wait until the football season gets going for real.
There are baseball fans here, real good ones, but there are also baseball
fans in Nebraska, there just are not enough baseballs here to support two
major league teams in Florida. I'd be nice if the Marlins and the Rays
could merge, and play in Orlando, and spread the minor league teams around
the other population centers--Call the team the Florida Rays (sun not fish).
There are the lawyers, and the media, and owners, and politicians, but the
Rays have made a strong case for leaving, . I love having a team here, but
I also feel the same way I feel when somebody gives me too much change back.
This area does not deserve a major league baseball team. Even the few
people that show up often seem a like they got lost on the way to a football
game.

TV ratings are up, but that's half the problem, the Rays should probably
fire Stats and Magrain--they are too good. If you gotta choose between you
living room and The Trop, the living room looks pretty good, if you have to
choose between Magrain and the pepsi bobble-head race that's pretty easy
too. My kitchen vs the Trop--no contest. I like my bathroom better too. My
parking is free, and covered as well. The Rays need to get someone like Jon
Miller an Joe Morgan that would get me out the park every home game.



"stephenj" <sjex@cox.com> wrote in message
news:zcetk.11993$_s1.1156@newsfe07.iad...
> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
> tight division race with the bosox.
>
> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
>
> WORST in the entire major league!
>
> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
>
> St pete is a nothing baseball town.

How many more morons (see dumb and dumber AKA ron & ian) are going to make
fools of themselves by saying that now that the Rays are winners and because
the trop is not selling out on week nights the team should leave St.
Pete...?

it takes more than a partial of one season of success to grow a loyal fan
base...Tampa Bay sports fans are a hardened bunch...they went through almost
as much losing as NO...If the Rays show they are for real and DO make the
Playoffs and DO show that they will be back with more of the same next
year...the fans will start to fill more seats on a regular basis...

All the morons like "ron&ian" that are supposed to be know<cough> in local
sports...can't see the forest for the trees...if they expect that like
turning a switch they can fill the trop every night with bandwagon baseball
fans...duh!

A consistent history in winning is the only thing that justifies a strong
fan base. I was out of the country for a while, so maybe I missed
something, but the Brewers have to go back to Gorman Thomas to find any real
good winning. Milwaukee ain't the largest market in the world, and 3 other
contending teams in nicer cities are a less than a days drive away. yet
they average nearly 15,000 more than Rays.

"chuck" <chuck@chuckroast.net> wrote in message
news:g96ovj$q5a$1@aioe.org...
> How many more morons (see dumb and dumber AKA ron & ian) are going to make
> fools of themselves by saying that now that the Rays are winners and
> because
> the trop is not selling out on week nights the team should leave St.
> Pete...?
>
> it takes more than a partial of one season of success to grow a loyal fan
> base...Tampa Bay sports fans are a hardened bunch...they went through
> almost
> as much losing as NO...If the Rays show they are for real and DO make the
> Playoffs and DO show that they will be back with more of the same next
> year...the fans will start to fill more seats on a regular basis...
>
> All the morons like "ron&ian" that are supposed to be know<cough> in local
> sports...can't see the forest for the trees...if they expect that like
> turning a switch they can fill the trop every night with bandwagon
> baseball
> fans...duh!
>
>

Bushnell W George Jr. wrote:
> Think it's bad now? wait until the football season gets going for real.
> There are baseball fans here, real good ones, but there are also
> baseball fans in Nebraska, there just are not enough baseballs here to
> support two major league teams in Florida. I'd be nice if the Marlins
> and the Rays could merge, and play in Orlando, and spread the minor
> league teams around the other population centers--Call the team the
> Florida Rays (sun not fish). There are the lawyers, and the media, and
> owners, and politicians, but the Rays have made a strong case for
> leaving, . I love having a team here, but I also feel the same way I
> feel when somebody gives me too much change back. This area does not
> deserve a major league baseball team. Even the few people that show up
> often seem a like they got lost on the way to a football game.
>
> TV ratings are up, but that's half the problem, the Rays should probably
> fire Stats and Magrain--they are too good. If you gotta choose between
> you living room and The Trop, the living room looks pretty good, if you
> have to choose between Magrain and the pepsi bobble-head race that's
> pretty easy too. My kitchen vs the Trop--no contest. I like my bathroom
> better too. My parking is free, and covered as well. The Rays need to
> get someone like Jon Miller an Joe Morgan that would get me out the park
> every home game.

good post.

--
"I admit that there are good white men,
but they bear no proportion to the bad.
The bad must be strongest, for they rule.
They enslave those not of their color.
There is no faith to be placed in their words."

- Chief Pachgantschilias

chuck wrote:
> How many more morons (see dumb and dumber AKA ron & ian) are going to make
> fools of themselves by saying that now that the Rays are winners and because
> the trop is not selling out on week nights the team should leave St.
> Pete...?

no one is saying they should leave because they aren't selling out. they
are saying they should leave because the attendance is GAWD-AWFUL.

> it takes more than a partial of one season of success to grow a loyal fan
> base...

? Fans usually respond instantly to a winner. the New Orleans Hornets
have been in that town for only 4-5 years, and 2 years ago their
attendance was bad, near the bottom of the league.

Then this past year they had a good team, won their division, and
attendance boomed by 5,000 a night to about 17,000.

After 10 years of last-place play, Rays fans should have been STARVED
for a team like this and should be showing up in DROVES. Their should be
a big honeymoon vibe to what is happening.

Instead, 13,000 fans show up, pathetic.



--
When the facts change,
one's opinion ought to change.

- John Maynard Keynes

now I know why you sign off with intelligent quotes...you can't come up with
anything intelligent on your own... that's ok, we understand

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:52:34 -0700 (PDT), sjaros3@home.com wrote:

|On Aug 27, 11:24 am, Flycoon <Flyc...@gooberville.boosters> wrote:
|> stephenj wrote:
|> > last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst of a
|> > tight division race with the bosox.
|>
|> > attendance at the trop? 13,000.
|>
|> > WORST in the entire major league!
|>
|> > the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to tampa.
|>
|> > St pete is a nothing baseball town.
|>
|> They have 20+ years left on their lease at the Tropi-dump.  Going nowhere.
|>
|> I'd prefer to see them in a new stadium near the I-4/I-75 area to make
|> them more accessible, but I'm not an owner.
|
|yes, unfortunately the trop is not anywhere near the 'geographic
|center' of the Tampa Bay area, at least not in terms of population and
|accessibility. Your location would draw many more fans.
|----------------

Actually it is more in the center than you would think.

Any fans traveling from Orlando area is a bonus. The prime market for
the Rays to draw steady attendance is from Tampa/Brandon area to the
east and from Sarasota to the south and New Port Ritchey to the North.
The Trop is very much centrally located for these markets. That is
primarily why the ownership wanted the bayside property where Al Lang
Field is right now for the new stadium. If you move to the I-4/I-75
area, you will gain more from the Orlando area but in reality how much
more? From Sarasota and Bradenton you now increase the drive time to
accommodate those in Orlando. I am not so sure that would be an
admirable trade off.

The major complaint that I hear from Orlando fans is the drive throu
gh Tampa at rush hour. That being said, I-275 from downtown to Howard
Franklin Bridge is now being widen. Also Gandy Blvd is under
remodeling and when done the Crosstown makes an excellent alternative
to I-275.

james

"stephenj" <sjex@cox.com> wrote in message
news:zcetk.11993$_s1.1156@newsfe07.iad...
> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst
> of a tight division race with the bosox.
>
> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
>
> WORST in the entire major league!
>
> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to
> tampa.
>
> St pete is a nothing baseball town.

Access to the stadium is abysmal, parking sucks. Mass transit would
make it much easier to get to........

>>>Access to the stadium is abysmal, parking sucks. Mass transit would
make it much easier to get to........ <<<

They need a waterfront stadium close to more things to do...right now there
is little if anything in the immediate vicinity of the Trop....They should
try to get businesses that attract large crowds on their own... look at Ybor
City... there is no casino in Ybor...Channelside businesses boom when there
is a Lightning game or a concert etc at the SPT Forum...

They need to build a venue/ plaza that has something for everyone including
an amphitheater or something for non baseball season shows...

chuck wrote:
> now I know why you sign off with intelligent quotes...you can't come up with
> anything intelligent on your own...

translation: all your points were swatted down, and you lack the guts to
admit it. sad ..




--
... unless her great neighbors are prosperous
and orderly, Poland is an economic impossibility
with no industry but Jew-baiting.

- JM Keynes

>>>translation: all your points were swatted down, and you lack the guts to
admit it. sad ..<<<

horsefeathers...

you just need to take the "stupid" goggles off...you don't even know when
you've bitch slapped to the curb...DOH!

My 2 sense....
I lived in the Tampa Bay area for 15 years, and currently live out west. To
be honest I am ashamed to see a Rays team within a game of the best record
in baseball have such pitiful fan support. The fans in the Tampa Bay area
are transient. They like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, but are hesitant to
support the home team. To draw 13,000 fans mid week is pitiful and a
horrible representation of the great people who live in the Tampa Bay area.
The Rays drew near 19K on April 14 for a Monday & 21K on April 15 for a
Tuesday night game against the Yankees both of which were school nights. I
understand economic times are tough, but to reward the Rays with little to
no attendance is poor. It's not always about the team they are playing...it
should be about the Rays. They are arguably the best story in baseball this
year and have horrible attendance. The residents of the Bay area will be
quick to blame the economy, bad location of stadium, poor condition of the
Trop, but it all boils down to the lack of support the residents actually
have for the team. And how bad of a location is it? About 15-25 minutes
from Tampa, an hour from Hernando Country.

Wake up residents of the bay area and support your team before ownership
gets smart and pulls them to a city that will support them. At that time
the residents will cry for another team.


"chuck" <chuck@chuckroast.net> wrote in message
news:g9e74i$42v$1@aioe.org...
>>>>Access to the stadium is abysmal, parking sucks. Mass transit would
> make it much easier to get to........ <<<
>
> They need a waterfront stadium close to more things to do...right now
> there
> is little if anything in the immediate vicinity of the Trop....They should
> try to get businesses that attract large crowds on their own... look at
> Ybor
> City... there is no casino in Ybor...Channelside businesses boom when
> there
> is a Lightning game or a concert etc at the SPT Forum...
>
> They need to build a venue/ plaza that has something for everyone
> including
> an amphitheater or something for non baseball season shows...
>
>

CM wrote:
> My 2 sense....
> I lived in the Tampa Bay area for 15 years, and currently live out west. To
> be honest I am ashamed to see a Rays team within a game of the best record
> in baseball have such pitiful fan support. The fans in the Tampa Bay area
> are transient. They like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, but are hesitant to
> support the home team.

Actually, there's another dimension -- for nearly any place where you
have an expansion team, it takes a couple of decades to develop a core
of fans who have grown up with the idea of thinking of that team as the
"home team". A team that is consistently competitive will accelerate
that process some (and for a team that's consistently bad, it will take
much longer.

What will also slow the process is places like Florida (and for that
matter, Arizona, and other cities where there's not multi-generation
attachment to the city) where many of the local residents don't
necessarily think of that area as "home", and as a result, are far more
likely to come to the park to root for the team in the gray uniforms,
because it's _their_ team.

In that scenario, newer teams have far more dependency on attendance,
based on who the other team is, and how many people that are local
residents with ties to the other area.

Thus, to some degree, even Seattle is still not at a place where the
Mariners are truly seen as "the home team". In Arizona, the Cubs draw
very well, given the number of people with Chicago ties (and in
football, when the Cowboys play at Arizona, the stadium is frequently
half-full of Cowboy fans, as Phoenix was Cowboys territory before the
Cardinals showed up). Even on the West Coast, home games for the
Giants, Dodgers and Padres will have a quite a few people openly rooting
for the visiting team when teams like the Cubs, Cardinals, Pirates and
Phillies are in town.

It really is a misunderstanding that a winning team equates to (or
should equate to) attendance figures. Sure, winning helps, but until
the team has built up emotional equity among the fan base (again, where
the popular perception is "our team, win or lose", you'll see a lot of
bandwagon fans that are excitable when the team is doing well, but
defect quickly when the team is mediocre (or worse).

This is exactly the misunderstanding that Charlie Finley carried into
Oakland in the early 70's -- the team was the best in the majors, and
had trouble drawing much more than a million at the gate, because he
assumed that all that was really necessary (beyond gaudy promotions) was
a winning team. When fans didn't flock to games, the criticism was that
Oakland couldn't support baseball. The reality was that it took a
generation for Oakland to really adopt the A's as their own (and not
necessarily competing with the Giants for attention). Thus, in the last
decade, even when the A's have been not especially good, they've still
drawn far better than the A's of the Finley era.

> To draw 13,000 fans mid week is pitiful and a
> horrible representation of the great people who live in the Tampa Bay area.
> The Rays drew near 19K on April 14 for a Monday & 21K on April 15 for a

What that measures is the number of people who are true fans, who will
go to a game for either of two reasons -- it's a live game and both
teams on the field are the Major Leagues, and a much smaller group for
whom "it's our team". For the people who shell out for season tickets,
it's a mixture of the two.

Remember also that for casual fans, it's a long season, and people who
buy single-game tickets may go to the park only a few times a year.
Thus, if Joe Fan there's something else interesting going on a
particular night, oh well, there's another game tomorrow night or next
week, unless the other team is one that he's particularly attached to.


Smith

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 08:21:42 -0400, "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com>
wrote:

|
|"stephenj" <sjex@cox.com> wrote in message
|news:zcetk.11993$_s1.1156@newsfe07.iad...
|> last night, the rays hosted the 68-63 blue jays while in the midst
|> of a tight division race with the bosox.
|>
|> attendance at the trop? 13,000.
|>
|> WORST in the entire major league!
|>
|> the team obviously should move, perhaps just over the water to
|> tampa.
|>
|> St pete is a nothing baseball town.
|
|Access to the stadium is abysmal, parking sucks. Mass transit would
|make it much easier to get to........
|
|--------------------

.... after picking myself up off the floor from laughing so hard at t
his thread and the idiot pu ndits on the radio.

You know after living down in Palm Beach Co. for 20 yrs I have heard
all the same arguements about the Marlins and their stadium issues
that are going on now with the Rays. This is almost like movie Ground
Hog Day. Nearly the same script but different team.

Dear ol Wayne decided to appease the fans and spend some cash in teh
fourth year of the team. Low and behold it worked. The Marlins won the
big one, the World Series. What did Waynie Poo do after that you ask?
He held a major fire sale. He traded the team that won a world series
and stocked them with AAA players. Why he stated he could not afford
to pay the salaries for as little atendance. Yes folks he cried poor
mouth. Exit Waynie Poo and in comes Jeffie. All he wants is another
stadium almost right away or he wont spend any money on the team. He
wants a downtown waterfront stadium and if the city does not give it
to him then he is going to take his team and leave. Metro dade voters
told him once,"don't let the door hit you in the backside when you
leave" when they soundly rejected a tax increase for a new stadium.

In all this the Marlins is the only NL team to win two World Series in
the last 15 yrs. Not the Mets, the Braves, the Cardinals, or any of
the more prominant NL teams. The Marlins, who have been in existance
since the 1993 season.

Some similarities with the Marlins are that we had an original
ownership that did trty one season and put a good product on the
field. That failed miserably. Only managed 70 wins with all those
high price veterans. Then started the poor mouth and we can't compete
due to the high salaries that the other teams in the division can
generate. Enter a new face in the ownership group and almost out of
the gate, I want a new downtown waterfront stadium! After more than
five years of trading for prospects and fielding a team that was the
laughing stock of baseball, the Rays are now at least respectable.

No wall of a sudden the talking buttheads on radio are somehow thrown
back into Wonderland with Alice. I guess they have taken the pill or
drank the kool-aid the has made them dumber that dumb. I see a lot of
similarities with this Rays team and the 1997 Marlins. They real
attendance did not happen untill it became evident that the Marlins
were capable of winning the divsion or at least get in as a wild card.

As September comes to its completion, I do expect the crowds to
increase. Not to full capcity, but steadily increase as they come
closer to a play off scenario. The ral question is not the attendance
this year but next year! Will the ownership do as the Marlins did in
1997? Will most of this team return next year or will we see good
players traded off for prospects?

ALso one last thought, The Bucs first owner dear lovable Hugh, did
not care if the stadium was full of fans. As long as he had what he
needed to turn a profit then he was happy. That was about 25,000 per
game. Is Stu the same type of owner? Remember last year the Rays were
one of the most profitable team in MLB with the lowest salary. Is Stu
and the ownership group interested in just making money and put any
product and expect us to buy? Or are they truly interested in aquiring
a fan base and profitability by placing a top quality product on the
field?

Only time will tell. So I sit back and listen to the banter back and
forth of where a stdium should be and just laugh. It does not really
matter where the stadium is, if the product being sold is not worth
the price then few are not going to buy!


just my thoughts.

james

>>>The Marlins won the
big one, the World Series<<<

in the history of all professional sports there was ever a case of "buying
a championship" that was it!

in the eyes of many purist baseball fans that (Marlins) franchise (not just
the * by the WS title) will always be tainted.

Wayne's world is as shallow as it gets

I am a long time Rays fan from Southern California. (I live 5 miles
from Angels Stadium)
I'll go catch a game when the Rays come to town.

But what stops me from attending more Angel games is the f-ing
ticket prices. The food is ok, but you better bring the credit card.
Because after you park in the massive and accessible parking lot ($12)
they will "nickel and dime" you all night. Dodger Stadium is even worst.

My question for my lucky brother Ray fans, across the country, is
this.

What is up with the actual ticket, parking, food, ect, PRICES? If I
was in the area, I would go to games all the time. Especially if the
organization doesn't "rape the wallet" like most California franchises
do. (The Oakland A's being the exception.)

Go TB Rays!
Vince in Orange, CA