I was poking around youtube for swim videos and ran across this stroke
used by Navy Seals. It's a modified sidestroke and they say it's fast
and efficient.

I've been using sidestroke as a rest during longer open water swims
and have been frustrated by it's slowness. But for certain shallow
sections of water, it's the only thing that will work (and it's a nice
break for my upper body). Just wondering if the Combat Swim Stroke
would have these advantages, with more speed.

Anyone with experience care to comment?

Jon

<JonLPXC@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1d940ed-aff8-4bd5-aeb5-15904658514c@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I was poking around youtube for swim videos and ran across this stroke
> used by Navy Seals. It's a modified sidestroke and they say it's fast
> and efficient.
>
> I've been using sidestroke as a rest during longer open water swims
> and have been frustrated by it's slowness. But for certain shallow
> sections of water, it's the only thing that will work (and it's a nice
> break for my upper body). Just wondering if the Combat Swim Stroke
> would have these advantages, with more speed.
>
> Anyone with experience care to comment?
>
> Jon

No experience with that stroke, but it clearly is not a stroke designed
for speed. We teach side stroke to lifeguards because it's sometimes
useful in a rescue. Any stroke with that slow of a turnover isn't
designed for speed. It might, however, have been proven to work well if
you're wearing a lot of gear in the water or otherwise have a
military-specific reason for being taught.

-S-

Steve Freides wrote:
> <JonLPXC@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c1d940ed-aff8-4bd5-aeb5-15904658514c@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> I was poking around youtube for swim videos and ran across this stroke
>> used by Navy Seals. It's a modified sidestroke and they say it's fast
>> and efficient.
>>
>> I've been using sidestroke as a rest during longer open water swims
>> and have been frustrated by it's slowness. But for certain shallow
>> sections of water, it's the only thing that will work (and it's a nice
>> break for my upper body). Just wondering if the Combat Swim Stroke
>> would have these advantages, with more speed.
>>
>> Anyone with experience care to comment?
>>
>> Jon
>
> No experience with that stroke, but it clearly is not a stroke designed
> for speed. We teach side stroke to lifeguards because it's sometimes
> useful in a rescue. Any stroke with that slow of a turnover isn't
> designed for speed. It might, however, have been proven to work well if
> you're wearing a lot of gear in the water or otherwise have a
> military-specific reason for being taught.
>
> -S-
>
>
If you look at the videos, it isn't really side stroke. One way is two
underwater strokes of breast stroke, followed by one stroke of
conventional side stroke. That's from a commercial video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CM4vCf5rJA. The other one, supposedly
from the Navy itself, is a sort of hybrid of side stroke and crawl.
Basically it is one crawl stroke underwater with a flutter kick, then
turn on the side while sidestroke kicking to breathe. It looks
interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lUHudMN1TU
Their goal/requirement is 500 yards in under 10 minutes, and they just
call it "sidestroke."

I've been swimming a little bit of sidestroke since I've resurrected my
life guarding dream. I had forgotten that sidestroke is the only thing I
enjoy less than TI style swimming. It is supposed to be good for
carrying victims or equipment. Perhaps I'll try the style from the
Navy, since it looks less boring and annoying than regular sidestroke (I
find it hard to balance on the side).

This one shows the hybrid nature pretty well and he is swimming at
speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wxvGlw_FBA
Madelaine

Yes, the less boring aspect is what I'm shooting for.

I'm curious--what don't you like about TI swimming? (My only formal
swim instruction is TI workshop, so maybe there's a world of funner,
more efficient swimming that I'm missing out on...)

My interest in the combat stroke, and the sidestroke, is to find
something other than the crawl to do for long-distance swims. (Bum
hip doesn't allow for breast stroke.) Maybe the answer is to speeden
up my backstroke and learn to swim straight...

Jon

On Aug 20, 11:22 am, Madelaine <m...@sei.cmu.edu> wrote:
> Steve Freides wrote:
> > <JonL...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:c1d940ed-aff8-4bd5-aeb5-15904658514c@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com....
> >> I was poking around youtube for swim videos and ran across this stroke
> >> used by Navy Seals.  It's a modified sidestroke and they say it's fast
> >> and efficient.
>
> >> I've been using sidestroke as a rest during longer open water swims
> >> and have been frustrated by it's slowness.  But for certain shallow
> >> sections of water, it's the only thing that will work (and it's a nice
> >> break for my upper body).  Just wondering if the Combat Swim Stroke
> >> would have these advantages, with more speed.
>
> >> Anyone with experience care to comment?
>
> >> Jon
>
> > No experience with that stroke, but it clearly is not a stroke designed
> > for speed.  We teach side stroke to lifeguards because it's sometimes
> > useful in a rescue.  Any stroke with that slow of a turnover isn't
> > designed for speed.  It might, however, have been proven to work wellif
> > you're wearing a lot of gear in the water or otherwise have a
> > military-specific reason for being taught.
>
> > -S-
>
> If you look at the videos, it isn't really side stroke.  One way is two
> underwater strokes of breast stroke, followed by one stroke of
> conventional side stroke.  That's from a commercial video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CM4vCf5rJA.  The other one, supposedly
> from the Navy itself, is a sort of hybrid of side stroke and crawl.
> Basically it is one crawl stroke underwater with a flutter kick, then
> turn on the side while sidestroke kicking to breathe.  It looks
> interesting.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lUHudMN1TU
> Their goal/requirement is 500 yards in under 10 minutes, and they just
> call it "sidestroke."
>
> I've been swimming a little bit of sidestroke since I've resurrected my
> life guarding dream. I had forgotten that sidestroke is the only thing I
> enjoy less than TI style swimming. It is supposed to be good for
> carrying victims or equipment.  Perhaps I'll try the style from the
> Navy, since it looks less boring and annoying than regular sidestroke (I
> find it hard to balance on the side).
>
> This one shows the hybrid nature pretty well and he is swimming at
> speed:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wxvGlw_FBA
> Madelaine- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

JonLPXC@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, the less boring aspect is what I'm shooting for.
>
> I'm curious--what don't you like about TI swimming? (My only formal
> swim instruction is TI workshop, so maybe there's a world of funner,
> more efficient swimming that I'm missing out on...)
>
> My interest in the combat stroke, and the sidestroke, is to find
> something other than the crawl to do for long-distance swims. (Bum
> hip doesn't allow for breast stroke.) Maybe the answer is to speeden
> up my backstroke and learn to swim straight...
>
> Jon
>HUGE SNIP
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

The side-lying thing in TI doesn't do it for me. I don't think I'm any
more streamlined that way due to my not-too-thin shape. I think it
works best for people shaped like tongue depresssors, not like columns.
If you are almost as deep as you are wide, then it doesn't make you
more streamlined to lie on your side. I find it hard to balance that
way, also.

To help your backstroke, you might want to try yoga. Back has always
been my best stroke, and that is partially due to my flexible shoulders.

Stupid side stroke question--in the Navy Seals video he does an
undewater catch on the opposite side to the main stroking arm--is that a
normal part of sidestroke that I've been missing all along or is that
just part of this Navy Seal stroke? I'm getting intrigued by this stroke
and may want to try it.
Madelaine

This is the best sidestroke technique I've seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7SUwdX4W50

(I'm sure if I could understand Korean, I'd have the ultimate swim
secret, but alas...)


On Aug 20, 1:40 pm, Madelaine <m...@sei.cmu.edu> wrote:
> JonL...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Yes, the less boring aspect is what I'm shooting for.
>
> > I'm curious--what don't you like about TI swimming?  (My only formal
> > swim instruction is TI workshop, so maybe there's a world of funner,
> > more efficient swimming that I'm missing out on...)
>
> > My interest in the combat stroke, and the sidestroke, is to find
> > something other than the crawl to do for long-distance swims.  (Bum
> > hip doesn't allow for breast stroke.)  Maybe the answer is to speeden
> > up my backstroke and learn to swim straight...
>
> > Jon
> >HUGE SNIP
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> The side-lying thing  in TI doesn't do it for me.  I don't think I'm any
> more streamlined that way due to my not-too-thin shape.  I think it
> works best for people shaped like tongue depresssors, not like columns.
>  If you are almost as deep as you are wide, then it doesn't make you
> more streamlined to lie on your side.  I find it hard to balance that
> way, also.
>
> To help your backstroke, you might want to try yoga.  Back has always
> been my best stroke, and that is partially due to my flexible shoulders.
>
> Stupid side stroke question--in the Navy Seals video he does an
> undewater catch on the opposite side to the main stroking arm--is that a
> normal part of sidestroke that I've been missing all along or is that
> just part of this Navy Seal stroke? I'm getting intrigued by this stroke
> and may want to try it.
> Madelaine- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Aug 20, 11:22 am, Madelaine <m...@sei.cmu.edu> wrote:
> Steve Freides wrote:
> > <JonL...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:c1d940ed-aff8-4bd5-aeb5-15904658514c@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com....
> >> I was poking around youtube for swim videos and ran across this stroke
> >> used by Navy Seals.  It's a modified sidestroke and they say it's fast
> >> and efficient.
>
> >> I've been using sidestroke as a rest during longer open water swims
> >> and have been frustrated by it's slowness.  But for certain shallow
> >> sections of water, it's the only thing that will work (and it's a nice
> >> break for my upper body).  Just wondering if the Combat Swim Stroke
> >> would have these advantages, with more speed.
>
> >> Anyone with experience care to comment?
>
> >> Jon
>
> > No experience with that stroke, but it clearly is not a stroke designed
> > for speed.  We teach side stroke to lifeguards because it's sometimes
> > useful in a rescue.  Any stroke with that slow of a turnover isn't
> > designed for speed.  It might, however, have been proven to work wellif
> > you're wearing a lot of gear in the water or otherwise have a
> > military-specific reason for being taught.
>
> > -S-
>
> If you look at the videos, it isn't really side stroke.  One way is two
> underwater strokes of breast stroke, followed by one stroke of
> conventional side stroke.  That's from a commercial video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CM4vCf5rJA.  The other one, supposedly
> from the Navy itself, is a sort of hybrid of side stroke and crawl.
> Basically it is one crawl stroke underwater with a flutter kick, then
> turn on the side while sidestroke kicking to breathe.  It looks
> interesting.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lUHudMN1TU
> Their goal/requirement is 500 yards in under 10 minutes, and they just
> call it "sidestroke."
>
> I've been swimming a little bit of sidestroke since I've resurrected my
> life guarding dream. I had forgotten that sidestroke is the only thing I
> enjoy less than TI style swimming. It is supposed to be good for
> carrying victims or equipment.  Perhaps I'll try the style from the
> Navy, since it looks less boring and annoying than regular sidestroke (I
> find it hard to balance on the side).
>
> This one shows the hybrid nature pretty well and he is swimming at
> speed:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wxvGlw_FBA
> Madelaine- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think the breast stroke part of the stroke, which only appears on
the turns, is just a poorly executed breaststroke pull out! However, I
have been swimming a modified breast stoke where I dig under water as
my upper hand pulls down and then I simultaneously pull with the lower
arm and kick while submerged. I think it incorporates the loping style
that you see Phelps doing in his freestyle here -> http://www.goswim.tv/entries/5398/
on the goswim.tv site.

Fred J.

On Aug 19, 10:31 am, JonL...@gmail.com wrote:
> I was poking around youtube for swim videos and ran across this stroke
> used by Navy Seals.  It's a modified sidestroke and they say it's fast
> and efficient.


Useful for civilians? Looking at it, it's not clear to me that it's
useful for the military. Looks awkward as hell to me. But you know
what they say, the right way, the wrong way & the Army way.

JonLPXC@gmail.com wrote:
> This is the best sidestroke technique I've seen:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7SUwdX4W50
>
> (I'm sure if I could understand Korean, I'd have the ultimate swim
> secret, but alas...)
>
>
>Big SNIP

Thanks, that's helpful. My sidestroke looks just like that, only with a
lot of wobbling.

Doc wrote:
> On Aug 19, 10:31 am, JonL...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I was poking around youtube for swim videos and ran across this stroke
>> used by Navy Seals. It's a modified sidestroke and they say it's fast
>> and efficient.
>
>
> Useful for civilians? Looking at it, it's not clear to me that it's
> useful for the military. Looks awkward as hell to me. But you know
> what they say, the right way, the wrong way & the Army way.

I think the idea may be to hide underwater part of the time, and also be
able to look up and see, and to be able to go for a long distance with
little effort. The Seals are supposed to do 25 yards in 30 seconds
according to the video (500 yards in 10 minutes) in order to "pass" that
part of the training. And they would be expected to do this stroke after
they were trained in a full uniform, I would think, and also carrying
gear. This is the most interesting thing I've seen on here for a long time.
Madelaine

On Aug 21, 4:12 pm, Madelaine <m...@sei.cmu.edu> wrote:
> JonL...@gmail.com wrote:
> > This is the best sidestroke technique I've seen:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7SUwdX4W50
>
> > (I'm sure if I could understand Korean, I'd have the ultimate swim
> > secret, but alas...)
>
> >Big SNIP    
>
> Thanks, that's helpful.  My sidestroke looks just like that, only with a
> lot of wobbling.

That is the style of side stroke taught in the American Red Cross
classes. The hand action is simple; Extend one hand above your head
the other rest on your thigh. Grad an apple from the tree and place it
into your lower hand at about waist level (the hands move in opposite
directions simultaneously. Now with the apple in the lower arm,
recover the top arm and drop the apple into the bucket. The scissor
kick is coordinated with the lower arm and completes as the apple is
placed into the bucket; glide! Notice the head position; ear stays in
the water throughout the cycle - not submerged. Inhale as the lower
hand recovers, exhale as the lower hand goes throught the propulsion
phase.

Fred J.

"Madelaine" <mgd@sei.cmu.edu> wrote in message
news:g8ki6t$av1$1@usenet02.sei.cmu.edu...
> JonLPXC@gmail.com wrote:
>> This is the best sidestroke technique I've seen:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7SUwdX4W50
>>
>> (I'm sure if I could understand Korean, I'd have the ultimate swim
>> secret, but alas...)
>>
>>
>>Big SNIP
>
> Thanks, that's helpful. My sidestroke looks just like that, only with
> a
> lot of wobbling.

In lifeguarding, we try to get them to bring the top leg back all the
time - helps prevent the victim from getting kicked by the rescuer.
Beginning sidestrokers have a favorite side but eventually it's nice to
be able to do this on both side and still keep the top leg to the back.

-S-