What a disappointment--the Twins lost to the no-name A's even after
All Star pitcher Justin Duchscherer was lifted from the game in the
3rd inning. I say no-name because my son was keeping score and while
filling out the scorecard before the game we were both flummoxed by
not knowing the names associated with the posted numbers in the A's
lineup. Patterson?, Gonzalez?, Hannahan?, Barton?. Speaking of Barton,
when was the last time you can recall the first baseman hitting in the
9th spot?

The game started off with a bang--Mark Ellis hit Nick Blackburn's very
first pitch on a line shot into the left field seats. Blackburn's last
start began eerily familiar with Johnny Damon taking his first pitch
out of the yard. Hey Nick, let's start your next game with a slider,
OK?

This was a sloppily played ballgame, especially by the Twins. Adam
Everett ran into Buscher as Buscher was chasing down a foul ball,
knocking the ball out of his glove and sending both players sprawling.
Delmon Young looked clueless in LF, committing an error and having a
ball drop out of his glove near the wall after a long chase. Adam
Everett threw a ball wide of first base for an error. (deja vu). The
A's had their share too--A's LF Patterson (who?) threw the ball into
the Twins dugout allowing Mauer to score after he had tripled. In the
ninth a bunt attempt was popped up and halfway to third base, which
Buscher easily caught. After a Twins strikeout (Young? Buscher?) A's
catcher Suzuki threw that ball over the third baseman's head while
starting an around-the-horn celebration. Frank Thomas grounded out to
Punto and basically gave up running halfway down the first base line.
I was hoping Punto would hold onto the ball thus forcing Thomas to leg
it all the way out before snapping a throw to Morneau, just to show
the veteran up, but no such luck.

We were sitting behind third base in the first deck about halfway up,
and it sure looked like the home plate umpire's strike zone was all
over the place. Checking the scorecard I see the Twins batters had 9
strikeouts including 5 called third strikes, including the game ender
to Brendan Harris. Punto had words after being rung up, and Mauer made
a face after his called third strike. If someone saw the game on TV
I'd like your take on the home plate umpire's strike zone.

Sloppiness extended to the A's manager, Bob Geren. How else do you
explain leaving recent call-up Kirk Saarloos in the game to pitch to
Mauer and Morneau instead of bringing in leftie Alan Embree in the
sixth? Using Embree to pitch only to Buscher then immediately using
your closer, Huston Street in the seventh inning? Finally, leaving
rookie Brad Ziegler in the game for a two inning save situation?

The only real excitement for Twins fans was Span's single in the
eighth followed by Mauer's wall banging triple and subsequent run on
the wild throw. Then with two outs in the ninth, pinch hitter Mike
Lamb drew a four pitch walk, K-K Gomez pinch ran, but Brendan Harris
was called out looking at strike three to end the game. It looked like
another bad call by the home plate ump from my vantage point and
Harris threw his bat and batting helmet in disgust.

Not a bad crowd, 25,000, to bring indoors for a game against the no-
name A's on a beautiful Monday night.

"powrwrap" <powrwrap@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1414bdfb-e329-4bcd-a56b-27a9471490f7@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> What a disappointment--the Twins lost to the no-name A's even after
> All Star pitcher Justin Duchscherer was lifted from the game in the
> 3rd inning.

You just semi-contradicted yourself... they're the "no names" except for
that All-Star starter... ;-) though granted he did get lifted early, but
this is baseball... on any given night Glen Perkins can shut down the
Yankees. Hardly a huge shock that one of the best staffs in the AL can hold
the Twins to 2 runs over 9 -- their defense helped a lot too -- their OF
saved a run or two I think.

Contrast this with the Twins' OF defense (I'm looking at YOU, Delmon) which
arguably cost them 1-2 runs. That's a swing of up to 4 net runs by my wild
speculation. Think that might have a little something to do with the
outcome in a 1-run game?

This was the first game in a long time that the offense simply let them
down. Blackburn pitched pretty well -- not spectacular but I'll take my
chances with 3 runs over 8 innings allowed by the Twins starter and Nathan
lurking in the pen for the 9th... in years past that wouldn't usually get
it done but this year the offense has been pretty stinkin good. This was
the first time in *14* games that the Twins failed to score 4 runs (that 5-1
loss to the Indians at home). Since then, they've scored 6, 6, 7, 7, 4, 7,
4, 4, 6, 4, 9, 7, 11, and 2 runs. That's exactly 6 runs per game -- pretty
amazing for this team actually.

But the A's are not *nearly* so bad as their record. Twins just ran into
some good pitching and a home plate ump who seemed to be celebrating Tribute
To Eric Gregg Night.

>
> The game started off with a bang--Mark Ellis hit Nick Blackburn's very
> first pitch on a line shot into the left field seats. Blackburn's last
> start began eerily familiar with Johnny Damon taking his first pitch
> out of the yard. Hey Nick, let's start your next game with a slider,
> OK?
>
> This was a sloppily played ballgame, especially by the Twins. Adam
> Everett ran into Buscher as Buscher was chasing down a foul ball,
> knocking the ball out of his glove and sending both players sprawling.
> Delmon Young looked clueless in LF, committing an error and having a
> ball drop out of his glove near the wall after a long chase. Adam
> Everett threw a ball wide of first base for an error. (deja vu). The
> A's had their share too--A's LF Patterson (who?) threw the ball into
> the Twins dugout allowing Mauer to score after he had tripled. In the
> ninth a bunt attempt was popped up and halfway to third base, which
> Buscher easily caught. After a Twins strikeout (Young? Buscher?) A's
> catcher Suzuki threw that ball over the third baseman's head while
> starting an around-the-horn celebration. Frank Thomas grounded out to
> Punto and basically gave up running halfway down the first base line.
> I was hoping Punto would hold onto the ball thus forcing Thomas to leg
> it all the way out before snapping a throw to Morneau, just to show
> the veteran up, but no such luck.
>
> We were sitting behind third base in the first deck about halfway up,
> and it sure looked like the home plate umpire's strike zone was all
> over the place. Checking the scorecard I see the Twins batters had 9
> strikeouts including 5 called third strikes, including the game ender
> to Brendan Harris. Punto had words after being rung up, and Mauer made
> a face after his called third strike. If someone saw the game on TV
> I'd like your take on the home plate umpire's strike zone.

See above, he was terrible. We've seen some of the worst umpiring this
year, I swear to it. And I readily confess that the Twins have benefitted
from it as well as been hurt by it. Strike zones have just been awful.

brink

> their defense helped a lot too -- their OF saved a run or two I think.

Yeah, their CF, Gonzalez (who?) made a nice diving catch on his
stomach. I figure he burned the skin off the palm of his throwing
hand.

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?c_id=oak

(Scroll down--Don't know how long that link will work)


>
> Contrast this with the Twins' OF defense (I'm looking at YOU, Delmon) which
> arguably cost them 1-2 runs. �That's a swing of up to 4 net runs by my wild
> speculation. �Think that might have a little something to do withthe
> outcome in a 1-run game?

Delmon Young has a sprained ankle. I wonder when he injured it? He
played the whole game. Or is this another one of those phantom
injuries allowing the manager to bench a player without public
humiliation?

> But the A's are not *nearly* so bad as their record. �

They were 5-25 in their previous 30 games coming into the game vs. the
Twins. I'd say that is horrendously bad.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:04:57 -0700 (PDT), powrwrap <powrwrap@aol.com> wrote:

>What a disappointment--the Twins lost to the no-name A's...

Well, they certainly made up for that tonight. ;-)



- Scott Smith: scott.smith@iphouse.com
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/choppersmith

powrwrap wrote:
>> their defense helped a lot too -- their OF saved a run or two I
>> think.
>
> Yeah, their CF, Gonzalez (who?) made a nice diving catch on his
> stomach. I figure he burned the skin off the palm of his throwing
> hand.
>
> http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?c_id=oak
>
> (Scroll down--Don't know how long that link will work)
>
>
>>
>> Contrast this with the Twins' OF defense (I'm looking at YOU,
>> Delmon) which arguably cost them 1-2 runs. �That's a swing of up to
>> 4 net runs by my wild speculation. �Think that might have a little
>> something to do with the outcome in a 1-run game?
>
> Delmon Young has a sprained ankle. I wonder when he injured it? He
> played the whole game. Or is this another one of those phantom
> injuries allowing the manager to bench a player without public
> humiliation?
>
>> But the A's are not *nearly* so bad as their record. �
>
> They were 5-25 in their previous 30 games coming into the game vs. the
> Twins. I'd say that is horrendously bad.

That 5-25 was what I was alluding to -- they're not nearly that bad... a
lot of people are dancing around Billy Beane's grave and celebrating the
(finally!) demise of Moneyball. This team will be back very soon and will
be very good for a while -- they have some great arms and the kids' bats
will come around.... they remind me of this Twins team.

brink

> On Aug 19, 10:48 pm, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> That 5-25 was what I was alluding to -- they're not nearly that bad...  a
> lot of people are dancing around Billy Beane's grave and celebrating the
> (finally!) demise of Moneyball.  This team will be back very soon and will
> be very good for a while -- they have some great arms and the kids' bats
> will come around....  they remind me of this Twins team.

Except that Oakland rarely keeps any of the players they develop. The
only reason Eric Chavez is still on the team is because he was injured
and tainted goods.

Though I haven't read the book I understand the concept of
"Moneyball". I just don't see that it's going to produce a
championship. Yes, it can have your team compete for a few years on
the cheap with young players, but inevitably it requires you to dump
salary (read: Tejada, Giambi, Hudson, Dye, Mulder, Hudson, Zito,
Swisher, Kotsay, Harden, Haren, Kendall, whew!) and then patching
holes with washed-up veterans to placate the fan base (F. Thomas,
Piazza, Loaiza, etc.)

I thought being a Twins fan was tough, imagine being an A's fan.

powrwrap wrote:
>> On Aug 19, 10:48 pm, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That 5-25 was what I was alluding to -- they're not nearly that
>> bad... a lot of people are dancing around Billy Beane's grave and
>> celebrating the (finally!) demise of Moneyball. This team will be
>> back very soon and will be very good for a while -- they have some
>> great arms and the kids' bats will come around.... they remind me of
>> this Twins team.
>
> Except that Oakland rarely keeps any of the players they develop. The
> only reason Eric Chavez is still on the team is because he was injured
> and tainted goods.
>
> Though I haven't read the book I understand the concept of
> "Moneyball". I just don't see that it's going to produce a
> championship. Yes, it can have your team compete for a few years on
> the cheap with young players, but inevitably it requires you to dump
> salary (read: Tejada, Giambi, Hudson, Dye, Mulder, Hudson, Zito,
> Swisher, Kotsay, Harden, Haren, Kendall, whew!) and then patching
> holes with washed-up veterans to placate the fan base (F. Thomas,
> Piazza, Loaiza, etc.)

That's not Moneyball, that's Oakland A's ball -- the Moneyball concept has
been more or less applied by big-salary teams too... notably the Red Sox.
So yes, Moneyball can definitely produce a championship.

I'm not saying Moneyball is to be credited for the Sox 2 rings... it's more
complex than that -- but it's part of the formula.

What Moneyball has done is help punch their ticket to a bunch of playoffs...
like the Twins, they just haven't done squat once they got there. Part of
that is luck, part of that is they just haven't been as good as some other
teams. But the playoffs are a crapshoot -- just look at a very mediocre
2006 Cardinals 83-79 regular season team winning the World Series as proof
of that. The 87 Twins are another great example.

Billy Beane has done a fantastic job in Oakland in winning games and getting
his team to the playoffs. He's done a lousy job of having continuity with
his team. The question is: which is his job? Can he accomplish A while
doing B? I don't think so...

>
> I thought being a Twins fan was tough, imagine being an A's fan.

They don't seem that different to me and their records are eerily similar...
lots of division banners and playoff teams but only 1 series win this
decade. Both teams have lost their share of stars, the Twins have held onto
more of theirs but the A's have had better position players which are harder
to hold onto because they command so much more money. In a way, the Twins
are fortunate that Mauer and Morneau are REALLY REALLY good but not so
unbelievably good like Miggy's and Giambi's MVP seasons that they could
command those monster contracts that are just totally out of the realm of
what the Twins will do.

It also helps that Mauer is criminally underrated... all people see is he
doesn't hit a lot of HRs.... and miss the fact that he's so easily the best
hitting catcher of his generation with a great glove to boot... the Twins
are getting a huge bargain on him.

brink