The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams behind
them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the Jays. SBs
and runs scored are not directly proportional.
The Jays currently have 83 HRs for the season, and the teams ahead of them
in that department are..... well... every one in the league.
The immediate need is for a proven slugger to hit around/between Wells and
Rios.

"Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams behind
> them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the Jays. SBs
> and runs scored are not directly proportional.
> The Jays currently have 83 HRs for the season, and the teams ahead of them
> in that department are..... well... every one in the league.
> The immediate need is for a proven slugger to hit around/between Wells and
> Rios.
>
Frank Thomas was a "proven" slugger but he didn't work out very well, Bill.
The problem is that past performance is no guarantee of present or future
performance.
The Jays should give a rookie a shot at DH. for the rest of this season.
They could start now with Travis Snider (S) or Ryan Patterson (NH). These
kids would not be much worse than Thomas, Stairs, Wilkerson or Mench have
been.

"Proteus" <proteus@ambiance.com> wrote in message
news:23gqk.44932$5p1.20856@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
>> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams behind
>> them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the Jays. SBs
>> and runs scored are not directly proportional.
>> The Jays currently have 83 HRs for the season, and the teams ahead of
>> them in that department are..... well... every one in the league.
>> The immediate need is for a proven slugger to hit around/between Wells
>> and Rios.
>>
> Frank Thomas was a "proven" slugger but he didn't work out very well,
> Bill.



your example, not mine. Frank Thomas is clearly past his prime.





> The problem is that past performance is no guarantee of present or future
> performance.
> The Jays should give a rookie a shot at DH. for the rest of this season.
> They could start now with Travis Snider (S) or Ryan Patterson (NH). These
> kids would not be much worse than Thomas, Stairs, Wilkerson or Mench have
> been.
>

From: billkawalec@yahoo.com (Bill Kawalec)

The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams behind
them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the Jays.
SBs and runs scored are not directly proportional. The Jays currently
have 83 HRs for the season, and the teams ahead of them in that
department are..... well... every one in the league. The immediate need
is for a proven slugger to hit around/between Wells and Rios.

doc>
Just to remind you although.i don't recall anybody in here saying
that speed was the answer to all the jays woes.

As usual you take it upon yourself to answer
a question that was never asked.

FYI,of those 8 teams you referred to behind the
jays in swiped bases,only one of those teams
has a realistic chance at post season,as for the
teams who have hit more hrs,one team the twins is just barley ahead of
the jays & may
still contend for a wc or even pass the wsox
and is 6th in runs scored.While the two top
teams in mlb,the rays and the halos are just
ahead of the jays in runs scored,but are in the
top three in swiped bases including the bosox.
1,2.3 and the yanks are in 4th.

Your woeful tig's have scored many more
runs and hit a ton of hr's,but may finish dead
last in the alc,who btw are dead last in swiped
bases in the al as well,along with,kc,o's a's,
and the tribe.(So whats your answer to their
much acclaimed pitiful season??)

There are exceptions to every theory of course
and that would be the wsox,and the rangers who lead the al in hrs ranked
1st and 2nd,and
in runs scored 1st and 4th.
While 9th&13th in swiped bases.

??One team still with a chance at post (cws) season.with the twins
breathing down their
necks who rank way below in both runs
scored and just ahead of the jays in hr's and just behind
the jays in stolen bases.??


And the teams who have outhit the jays in hr's
the rays and the halos rank 6th and 8th(hrs)
respectively and rank 9th&10th in runs scored
but are leaders in stolen bases,,go figure.

I am not saying of course the resident self
proclaimed all knowing and seeing bk is
entirely wrong.

And i agree the jays need some more pop
in the lineup,but who would have thought
that vw,and rios would have had such off
seasons.vw has missed well over1/3 of the season to injury and rios may
be the victim of
a hitting coach?

But when you look at the league leaders and
the teams that are pretty much a lock for
post season,halos,rays,and bosox all lead
the al in stolen bases,there must be more
than shit luck involved.While all of the top
three or four lead in swiped bases and are
well below in runs scored and hrs,with the
exception to the bosox,who are one of the
worst teams on the road,but as we all know
fenway can be a huge advantage to the home
team.

justmy.02centsofcourse

"Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams behind
> them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the Jays. SBs
> and runs scored are not directly proportional.

Just maybe Jays' pathethic BA with runners in scoring position (as well as
pathetic overall BA)has something to do with that.

"David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
news:g8fl1n021sc@news4.newsguy.com...
> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
>> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams behind
>> them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the Jays. SBs
>> and runs scored are not directly proportional.
>
> Just maybe Jays' pathethic BA with runners in scoring position (as well as
> pathetic overall BA)has something to do with that.
>




pretty much my point. they need a proven power hitter (NOT a has-been) far
more than they need "speed."






>
>

"Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_vWdnZzNQul4OTbVnZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
> news:g8fl1n021sc@news4.newsguy.com...
>> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams behind
>>> them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the Jays.
>>> SBs and runs scored are not directly proportional.
>>
>> Just maybe Jays' pathethic BA with runners in scoring position (as well
>> as pathetic overall BA)has something to do with that.
>>
>
>
>
>
> pretty much my point. they need a proven power hitter (NOT a has-been) far
> more than they need "speed."


Comparing the Jays and Rays stats

-pitching -era and whip differences are negligible -both at the top of the
league -Jays very very slightly better
BA and OB% -virtually equal
-slg % Jays .387 Rays .417 -marginally better but still bottom half of
league
BA runners in scoring position Jays .247 Rays .242
-runs 539 -574
-hr 87- 138
sb 74-121
hits 1097 -1094
wins 65-77 (Rays best in all baseball)

So the offensive differences are hr +51, slg% +.030 sb +47

Looks like speed and hr power to me

"David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
news:g8h4800j5t@news2.newsguy.com...
> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:_vWdnZzNQul4OTbVnZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
>> news:g8fl1n021sc@news4.newsguy.com...
>>> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams
>>>> behind them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the
>>>> Jays. SBs and runs scored are not directly proportional.
>>>
>>> Just maybe Jays' pathethic BA with runners in scoring position (as well
>>> as pathetic overall BA)has something to do with that.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> pretty much my point. they need a proven power hitter (NOT a has-been)
>> far more than they need "speed."
>
>
> Comparing the Jays and Rays stats
>
> -pitching -era and whip differences are negligible -both at the top of the
> league -Jays very very slightly better
> BA and OB% -virtually equal
> -slg % Jays .387 Rays .417 -marginally better but still bottom half of
> league
> BA runners in scoring position Jays .247 Rays .242
> -runs 539 -574
> -hr 87- 138
> sb 74-121
> hits 1097 -1094
> wins 65-77 (Rays best in all baseball)
>
> So the offensive differences are hr +51, slg% +.030 sb +47
>
> Looks like speed and hr power to me



more (FAR more) the power hitting than the speed, and that is my point.







>
>

"Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_cudnS9_IZr40jHVnZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
> news:g8h4800j5t@news2.newsguy.com...
>> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:_vWdnZzNQul4OTbVnZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
>>> news:g8fl1n021sc@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams
>>>>> behind them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than the
>>>>> Jays. SBs and runs scored are not directly proportional.
>>>>
>>>> Just maybe Jays' pathethic BA with runners in scoring position (as well
>>>> as pathetic overall BA)has something to do with that.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> pretty much my point. they need a proven power hitter (NOT a has-been)
>>> far more than they need "speed."
>>
>>
>> Comparing the Jays and Rays stats
>>
>> -pitching -era and whip differences are negligible -both at the top of
>> the league -Jays very very slightly better
>> BA and OB% -virtually equal
>> -slg % Jays .387 Rays .417 -marginally better but still bottom half of
>> league
>> BA runners in scoring position Jays .247 Rays .242
>> -runs 539 -574
>> -hr 87- 138
>> sb 74-121
>> hits 1097 -1094
>> wins 65-77 (Rays best in all baseball)
>>
>> So the offensive differences are hr +51, slg% +.030 sb +47
>>
>> Looks like speed and hr power to me
>
>
>
> more (FAR more) the power hitting than the speed, and that is my point.
>

That is your opinion. A SB puts a runner in scoring position, or on 3rd base
for a sac fly. So far you have not backed it up with any concrete evidence.
Having 47 more runners in scoring position certainly makes a difference.
Even for a weak hitting team.

David Smith in reply to bk>

Comparing the Jays and Rays stats

  -pitching -era and whip differences are negligible -both at the
top of the league

-Jays very very slightly better
BA and OB% -virtually equal

-slg % Jays .387 Rays .417 -marginally better but still bottom half of
league

BA runners in scoring position Jays .247 Rays .242 -runs 539 -574

-hr 87- 138

sb 74-121

hits 1097 -1094

wins 65-77 (Rays best in all baseball)

So the offensive differences are hr +51, slg% +.030 sb +47

Looks like speed and hr power to me.

doc>
It does not matter how you slice or
dice it bk,is never wrong.even in part.
or so his one tract mind tells him.

It's seems very ironic that the top 7 teams
in the al,and even in all of mlb,have the most stolen bases.And lead the
pac in wins except for the m's

One:
team with any hope of the post season the
twins,while the dead horse of the alc
the tigs is sucking hind tit in swiped bases.The twins btw are just
behind the
jays and barely in front of the jays in hr's
and one behind their rivals for the alc
in runs scored.
While
the tig's are 3rd in runs scored and
3rd in home runs,suck big time after
all that hype and money spent in the
off season in stolen bases..mmmmmmm
In fact the top teams in the al.in runs
scored,tex,bos,det,cws,bal,min.ny.clev.
laa,tamp,tor,sea,kc,oak.in that order,ironically are behind the jays and
9th and 10th just ahead of the jays,sea,
and oakland.Go figure..mmmmmmm

And whats more ironic,the top 7 teams in
the al have more stolen bases than the
rest.tb.boss,laa,nyy,sea,tor,min,with even
cws with slightly better #'s then the lowly
tig's.

Now for hr's.ws.tex,det,bos.tbay,nyy,clev,
laa,kc,oak,min,tor.

The only shoe in for sure are tbay,laa,and
bos.with only the cws a nose hair from
elimination to the twins who are just barely ahead of the jays in
hrs.and I
am not sure but over the last week
the jays may have over taken them(twins)
While the same twins,are now 14th in hr's
and 6th in runs scored with laa,tbay and
tor,holding down the next three spots.

Off the top 5 teams left in the top of
runs scored only one bos,has a better
than 60% chance of getting a wc and
my guess is the twins will win the weakest
link in the al,the alc.

I know you can ring up the numbers and
stats anyway you can put a different
spin on them.But it's quite obvius to
even the casual observer,bk is just
postering aother of his own therioes,
and trying to rub salt into am already
bleeding wound.

He is so found of telling us all,what
would be a sure fix for the jays,and
spouting his all knowng attitude.
Save it for your home ng,the tig's
need all the help they can get.like
you and leyland have a direct line
LMAO.


I would sure like to see the jays ad a good
dh in the lineup,but it is a no brainer when
you look at the standings who the most
succesfull teams are this season.I give
Mike Socsia credit for playing speed ball
and maufacturing runs in his very succesfull run with the halos.

Yes there is certainly a lot more to the
game of speed,but it has been proven to
be a sucess in this season than other
others,and the above #s more than prove
that.If not just not in offence but in def
as well.

But I am sure bk will pu pu it and not
back any of his theroy out,unless he can
find a ubscure gogle fact from 1888 to back it up....lolololo,wasnt the
last time
the tig's won a ws....

"David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
news:g8hklo01dkf@news2.newsguy.com...
> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:_cudnS9_IZr40jHVnZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
>> news:g8h4800j5t@news2.newsguy.com...
>>> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:_vWdnZzNQul4OTbVnZ2dnUVZ_oDinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>> "David Smith" <foo@localhost> wrote in message
>>>> news:g8fl1n021sc@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>> "Bill Kawalec" <billkawalec@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:0JCdncGPpuyWXzjVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>> The Jays rank 6th in the AL, with 74 stolen bases. Of the 8 teams
>>>>>> behind them in that category, six (75%) have scored more runs than
>>>>>> the Jays. SBs and runs scored are not directly proportional.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just maybe Jays' pathethic BA with runners in scoring position (as
>>>>> well as pathetic overall BA)has something to do with that.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> pretty much my point. they need a proven power hitter (NOT a has-been)
>>>> far more than they need "speed."
>>>
>>>
>>> Comparing the Jays and Rays stats
>>>
>>> -pitching -era and whip differences are negligible -both at the top of
>>> the league -Jays very very slightly better
>>> BA and OB% -virtually equal
>>> -slg % Jays .387 Rays .417 -marginally better but still bottom half of
>>> league
>>> BA runners in scoring position Jays .247 Rays .242
>>> -runs 539 -574
>>> -hr 87- 138
>>> sb 74-121
>>> hits 1097 -1094
>>> wins 65-77 (Rays best in all baseball)
>>>
>>> So the offensive differences are hr +51, slg% +.030 sb +47
>>>
>>> Looks like speed and hr power to me
>>
>>
>>
>> more (FAR more) the power hitting than the speed, and that is my point.
>>
>
> That is your opinion. A SB puts a runner in scoring position, or on 3rd
> base for a sac fly. So far you have not backed it up with any concrete
> evidence.



I sure did. 75% of the AL teams with fewer stolen bases than the Jays have
scored more runs. That's not my ""opinion."" It's a verifiable fact. Three
of the top four teams (again, 75%) in runs scored in the AL have fewer SBs
than the Jays. STOLEN BASES DO NOT WIN BALLGAMES. Not only that but, being
sixth (put of 14) in the AL in stolen bases hardly indicated a deficiency in
that area. Learn to observe on your own, and not just regurgitate what one
TV announcer said.



> Having 47 more runners in scoring position certainly makes a difference.
> Even for a weak hitting team.
>