After the high of Sunday, with Liriano up and the Twins in first,
we've had to endure THIS against one of the most pathetic teams in the
bigs. Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the way we've lost these
two games making the losses seem bigger than they are?

With the schedule favoring Chicago from here out, I say these losses
are beyond what the team can afford. I don't see it happening at this
point.

Matt

Matt wrote:
> After the high of Sunday, with Liriano up and the Twins in first,
> we've had to endure THIS against one of the most pathetic teams in the
> bigs. Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the way we've lost these
> two games making the losses seem bigger than they are?

Soul-crushers no doubt... but I'll vote for the latter. Interesting that 2
years ago close to this time we had a turning point in the season with
Liriano going OUT in a 1-0 loss to the A's... it looked bleak then... that
turned out OK.

> With the schedule favoring Chicago from here out, I say these losses
> are beyond what the team can afford. I don't see it happening at this
> point.

Maybe... Chicago has been doing everything they can to make this a race
though. I definitely give them the edge but it's no decisive edge... more
like 60/40.

We just might have seen the last of the Tiggers... time to start calling
this a 2-horse race for sure.

brink

On Aug 6, 12:34 am, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Matt wrote:
> > After the high of Sunday, with Liriano up and the Twins in first,
> > we've had to endure THIS against one of the most pathetic teams in the
> > bigs. Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the way we've lost these
> > two games making the losses seem bigger than they are?
>
> Soul-crushers no doubt...  but I'll vote for the latter.  Interestingthat 2
> years ago close to this time we had a turning point in the season with
> Liriano going OUT in a 1-0 loss to the A's...  it looked bleak then...  that
> turned out OK.
>
> > With the schedule favoring Chicago from here out, I say these losses
> > are beyond what the team can afford. I don't see it happening at this
> > point.
>
> Maybe...  Chicago has been doing everything they can to make this a race
> though.  I definitely give them the edge but it's no decisive edge...  more
> like 60/40.
>
> We just might have seen the last of the Tiggers...  time to start calling
> this a 2-horse race for sure.
>
> brink

Yeah it was a tough loss, but I don't think tough losses are the same
in Baseball as in some other sports. The seasons too long. I agree
with something Blyleven said tonight, the starters need to produce
more innings, and give the bullpen a break. There were a lot of
positives within this game. Kubel was terrific. Morneau has no quit
in him, and how about Mike Lamb. The forgotten, little used Mike Lamb.
That at bat showed me he has a lot of spunk, and can contribute a lot
in a pennant race. Put me down as optimistic. Tonight while tough to
swallow, was a great game.

"Matt" <AcesWired@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ca8aad2e-6237-49c8-a758-fa8f15afb2c5@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> After the high of Sunday, with Liriano up and the Twins in first,
> we've had to endure THIS against one of the most pathetic teams in the
> bigs. Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the way we've lost these
> two games making the losses seem bigger than they are?
>
> With the schedule favoring Chicago from here out, I say these losses
I don't really agree that the schedule favors Chicago.
Excluding the "minny math" games, twins play 11 games against
possible playoff bound teams (14 if you include Scott's fav. team:-)
The whitesox play 17 games against possible playoff bound teams
(22 if you include the tigers).
The twins still have 7 games against mariners(not sure if this is a good
thing though) and 9 against KC( 6 at home) while the white sox play the
mariners only 3 times and KC 9 times(only 3 at home).

infield homerun wrote:
> "Matt" <AcesWired@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ca8aad2e-6237-49c8-a758-fa8f15afb2c5@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> After the high of Sunday, with Liriano up and the Twins in first,
>> we've had to endure THIS against one of the most pathetic teams in
>> the bigs. Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the way we've lost
>> these two games making the losses seem bigger than they are?
>>
>> With the schedule favoring Chicago from here out, I say these losses
> I don't really agree that the schedule favors Chicago.
> Excluding the "minny math" games, twins play 11 games against
> possible playoff bound teams (14 if you include Scott's fav. team:-)
> The whitesox play 17 games against possible playoff bound teams
> (22 if you include the tigers).
> The twins still have 7 games against mariners(not sure if this is a
> good thing though) and 9 against KC( 6 at home) while the white sox
> play the mariners only 3 times and KC 9 times(only 3 at home).

Good points, all. The problem is that the Twins have been pretty bad on the
road... not to read too much into 2 games but it's very discouraging to see
the pitching mightily struggle on the road to start this trip.

Minny had a chance to pretty well even their road record with a strong
showing on this trip -- now they'll be fortunate to "survive" it at 3-3 and
could well be worse.

It's tough to get a read on this team -- the one facet that has really hurt
the team in Gardenhire's tenure has been offense. And this year that's
probably the strongest part of their game! And it keeps getting better...
the team OPS has been rising every month - significantly - they put up an
OPS north of .800 in July and have started out even stronger in August.

Meanwhile, the traditional strengths of this team -- starting, bullpen, and
defense -- have all been disappointing.

I think the Twins scoring 6 and 7 runs in these first two games in Seattle
and losing both of them to a lousy offensive ballclub says a lot about where
the Twins are WRT to their road mojo this season...

brink

On Aug 6, 2:47 pm, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> infield homerun wrote:
> > "Matt" <AcesWi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:ca8aad2e-6237-49c8-a758-fa8f15afb2c5@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com....
> >> After the high of Sunday, with Liriano up and the Twins in first,
> >> we've had to endure THIS against one of the most pathetic teams in
> >> the bigs. Is this the beginning of the end? Or is the way we've lost
> >> these two games making the losses seem bigger than they are?
>
> >> With the schedule favoring Chicago from here out, I say these losses
> > I don't really agree that the schedule favors Chicago.
> > Excluding the "minny math" games, twins play 11 games against
> > possible playoff bound teams (14 if you include Scott's fav. team:-)
> > The whitesox play 17 games against possible playoff bound teams
> > (22 if you include the tigers).
> > The twins still have 7 games against mariners(not sure if this is a
> > good thing though) and 9 against KC( 6 at home) while the white sox
> > play the mariners only 3 times and KC 9 times(only 3 at home).
>
> Good points, all.  The problem is that the Twins have been pretty bad on the
> road...  not to read too much into 2 games but it's very discouraging to see
> the pitching mightily struggle on the road to start this trip.
>
> Minny had a chance to pretty well even their road record with a strong
> showing on this trip -- now they'll be fortunate to "survive" it at 3-3 and
> could well be worse.
>
> It's tough to get a read on this team -- the one facet that has really hurt
> the team in Gardenhire's tenure has been offense.  And this year that's
> probably the strongest part of their game!  And it keeps getting better....
> the team OPS has been rising every month - significantly - they put up an
> OPS north of .800 in July and have started out even stronger in August.
>
> Meanwhile, the traditional strengths of this team -- starting, bullpen, and
> defense -- have all been disappointing.
>
> I think the Twins scoring 6 and 7 runs in these first two games in Seattle
> and losing both of them to a lousy offensive ballclub says a lot about where
> the Twins are WRT to their road mojo this season...
>
> brink- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Does anyone think Delmon would be playing left field for Tom Kelly?

On Aug 6, 12:34 am, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe...  Chicago has been doing everything they can to make this a race
> though.  I definitely give them the edge but it's no decisive edge...  more
> like 60/40.

The good news is that we're 3-3 on the road trip. The bad news is the
games were against two of baseball's worst teams. Not sure 3-3 is
gonna get it done. Now you've got to go and win a series against the
Yankees.

Matt

Matt wrote:
> On Aug 6, 12:34 am, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe... Chicago has been doing everything they can to make this a
>> race though. I definitely give them the edge but it's no decisive
>> edge... more like 60/40.
>
> The good news is that we're 3-3 on the road trip. The bad news is the
> games were against two of baseball's worst teams. Not sure 3-3 is
> gonna get it done. Now you've got to go and win a series against the
> Yankees.

I honestly think this is going to come down to hopefully dominating that HTH
matchup with Chicago in the penultimate series in Minny. Chicago could
easily come in with a several game lead -- but the Twins have been really,
really good at home and as badly as they seem to play on the road everything
is reversed at home.

Chicago does not have an easy schedule and in fact as far as opponents go is
more difficult. However they too have been a strong home team and they do
have an extra 3-4 home games down the stretch. Their bullpen has been even
worse than the Twins' lately though and their starting rotation is just a
mess right now. They have plenty to worry about themselves.

The entire AL Central bullpens have been a total disaster lately except --
wait for it -- the Royals! I mean... the Twins' has been bad... but then
the ChiSox' has been worse... and the Tiggers' has been execrable... and
the Indians has been just legendarily horrible...

I thought it was telling yesterday as the Royals kept trotting out reliever
after reliever with pretty dang good numbers -- low ERAs, low WHIPs, good
K/BB ratios... they have quietly put together a pretty good pitching staff.
If they could get some hitting out there, they'd be dangerous.

brink

> On Aug 11, 10:34 pm, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I honestly think this is going to come down to hopefully dominating that HTH
> matchup with Chicago in the penultimate series in Minny.  Chicago could
> easily come in with a several game lead -- but the Twins have been really,
> really good at home and as badly as they seem to play on the road everything
> is reversed at home.

I agree and I've already got tickets for the last game against Chicago
on that Thursday night.


> I thought it was telling yesterday as the Royals kept trotting out reliever
> after reliever with pretty dang good numbers -- low ERAs, low WHIPs, good
> K/BB ratios...

So I wasn't the only one that noticed that....

powrwrap wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 10:34 pm, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I honestly think this is going to come down to hopefully dominating
>> that HTH matchup with Chicago in the penultimate series in Minny.
>> Chicago could easily come in with a several game lead -- but the
>> Twins have been really, really good at home and as badly as they
>> seem to play on the road everything is reversed at home.
>
> I agree and I've already got tickets for the last game against Chicago
> on that Thursday night.
>
>
>> I thought it was telling yesterday as the Royals kept trotting out
>> reliever after reliever with pretty dang good numbers -- low ERAs,
>> low WHIPs, good K/BB ratios...
>
> So I wasn't the only one that noticed that....

The scary thing was the contrast between KC and Minny... KC has the
Mexicutioner, Ramirez, Tejeda, Nunez, and Mahay (who is hurt) all having
great years. The Twins have Nathan and Reyes pitching well... that's about
it. Crain and Breslow have been pretty good. Guerrier's been adequate but
of course has fallen apart lately.

For years we were spoiled by always having the best pen in the division...
ain't happening this year.

Still amazing that the Twins are in first place... seems like they're doing
it with mirrors...

brink

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:58:33 -0500, "brink" <brinknospam@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>powrwrap wrote:
>>> On Aug 11, 10:34 pm, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I honestly think this is going to come down to hopefully dominating
>>> that HTH matchup with Chicago in the penultimate series in Minny.
>>> Chicago could easily come in with a several game lead -- but the
>>> Twins have been really, really good at home and as badly as they
>>> seem to play on the road everything is reversed at home.
>>
>> I agree and I've already got tickets for the last game against Chicago
>> on that Thursday night.
>>
>>
>>> I thought it was telling yesterday as the Royals kept trotting out
>>> reliever after reliever with pretty dang good numbers -- low ERAs,
>>> low WHIPs, good K/BB ratios...
>>
>> So I wasn't the only one that noticed that....
>
>The scary thing was the contrast between KC and Minny... KC has the
>Mexicutioner, Ramirez, Tejeda, Nunez, and Mahay (who is hurt) all having
>great years. The Twins have Nathan and Reyes pitching well... that's about
>it. Crain and Breslow have been pretty good. Guerrier's been adequate but
>of course has fallen apart lately.
>
>For years we were spoiled by always having the best pen in the division...
>ain't happening this year.
>
>Still amazing that the Twins are in first place... seems like they're doing
>it with mirrors...

I don't know if they are doing it with mirrors. There are a few areas
where they are doing well, and exceeding expectations. The young
guys in the starting rotation are all doing fairly well lately as a
whole, guys like Span have been a surprise, the Twins offense
are doing great as far as RISP, etc.

So, there are areas that we can look at regarding just how the Twins
have been winning this season. Although at times it might *seem*
like they're "doing it with mirrors".

But, one thing is certain, the Twins are clearly exceeding what most
of us expected this season...despite the injuries and problems with
the bullpen, etc.




- Scott Smith: scott.smith@iphouse.com
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/choppersmith

S. Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:58:33 -0500, "brink" <brinknospam@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> powrwrap wrote:
>>>> On Aug 11, 10:34 pm, "brink" <brinknos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I honestly think this is going to come down to hopefully dominating
>>>> that HTH matchup with Chicago in the penultimate series in Minny.
>>>> Chicago could easily come in with a several game lead -- but the
>>>> Twins have been really, really good at home and as badly as they
>>>> seem to play on the road everything is reversed at home.
>>>
>>> I agree and I've already got tickets for the last game against
>>> Chicago on that Thursday night.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I thought it was telling yesterday as the Royals kept trotting out
>>>> reliever after reliever with pretty dang good numbers -- low ERAs,
>>>> low WHIPs, good K/BB ratios...
>>>
>>> So I wasn't the only one that noticed that....
>>
>> The scary thing was the contrast between KC and Minny... KC has the
>> Mexicutioner, Ramirez, Tejeda, Nunez, and Mahay (who is hurt) all
>> having great years. The Twins have Nathan and Reyes pitching
>> well... that's about it. Crain and Breslow have been pretty good.
>> Guerrier's been adequate but of course has fallen apart lately.
>>
>> For years we were spoiled by always having the best pen in the
>> division... ain't happening this year.
>>
>> Still amazing that the Twins are in first place... seems like
>> they're doing it with mirrors...
>
> I don't know if they are doing it with mirrors. There are a few areas
> where they are doing well, and exceeding expectations. The young
> guys in the starting rotation are all doing fairly well lately as a
> whole, guys like Span have been a surprise, the Twins offense
> are doing great as far as RISP, etc.
>
> So, there are areas that we can look at regarding just how the Twins
> have been winning this season. Although at times it might *seem*
> like they're "doing it with mirrors".
>
> But, one thing is certain, the Twins are clearly exceeding what most
> of us expected this season...despite the injuries and problems with
> the bullpen, etc.

They're testament to the power of not sucking... aside from their defense,
no aspect of the team sucks beyond all redemption... hitting is obviously
surprisingly good... starting pitching is fine... bullpen OK... all that
adds up to 14 games over .500 and a 1/2 game lead as of today. We can talk
about how the Twins owe a lot to the division being weaker than expected but
14 over .500 is not an illusion... we're not talking about the NL West
here... it will not be a cakewalk to win this division and whomever wins it
will have earned it.

I do give credit to Gardy and the organization's stability -- they do seem
to be able to plug guys in and wring quite a bit of value out of them.

brink