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View Full Version : Trade Rumors
Chaos_Not@Home 07-31-2008, 05:10 AM I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram. If
they do, wouldn't you think there is some shot the BoSox would come
after Dunn?
Bob Braun 07-31-2008, 05:24 AM "Chaos_Not@Home" <melott@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0fc4657-ccef-47dd-b677-48b72b45f913@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram. If
> they do, wouldn't you think there is some shot the BoSox would come
> after Dunn?
The Reds filled the Hamilton hole with Corey Patterson. I shudder to think
what they will go after to replace Adam Dunn!
Manny makes Adam look like a gold glove.
Should be interesting.
Kevin McClave 07-31-2008, 11:45 AM On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:10:38 -0700 (PDT), "Chaos_Not@Home"
<melott@gmail.com> wrote:
>I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram.
Is it just me, or does baseball have some of the worst nicknames ever?
********************************************************************
Kevin McClave
"Courage, the footstool of the Virtues, upon
which they stand." ~Robert Louis Stevenson
********************************************************************
Orange J. Dood 07-31-2008, 01:08 PM Who lives in a pineapple under the sea, "Chaos_Not@Home"
<melott@gmail.com>?
> I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for
> Man-Ram. If they do, wouldn't you think there is some shot the
> BoSox would come after Dunn?
Rumor is the D-Rays are after Dunn...
--
Cheers,
--Jeff
Let's Go Orange!
Chaos_Not@Home 07-31-2008, 02:36 PM On Jul 31, 6:45 am, Kevin McClave <kmcclaveSPAM D...@HEREtwcny.rr.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:10:38 -0700 (PDT), "Chaos_Not@Home"
>
> <mel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram.
>
> Is it just me, or does baseball have some of the worst nicknames ever?
>
When I was watching the game last night, I was thinking of how
(Grande?) one of the annoucers used to add "-ie" to everyone's name...
like "Boonie", so Cordero would be "Cordie"
Keppinger - Keppie
Encarnacion - Encarnie (smells of cabbage?)
There used to be some great nicknames... I'll have to break out my
APBA cards.
tmbowman25@yahoo.com 07-31-2008, 05:04 PM On Jul 30, 9:24 pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin...@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
> "Chaos_Not@Home" <mel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f0fc4657-ccef-47dd-b677-48b72b45f913@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram. If
> > they do, wouldn't you think there is some shot the BoSox would come
> > after Dunn?
>
> The Reds filled the Hamilton hole with Corey Patterson. I shudder to think
> what they will go after to replace Adam Dunn!
I'm pretty sure Hamilton was traded with Bruce in mind. Frankly, I'm
not sure why we signed Patterson. I guess brass felt Freel/Hopper
couldnt hold down cf until May. Turns out they were right.
>
> Manny makes Adam look like a gold glove.
>
> Should be interesting.
I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
Manny while battling for first place (manny at 140 ops+ right now), or
that the Marlins would pick him up. Did manny have an incident that
caused the RS to sour on him?
I dont pay attention to anything that happens in Boston so i'm in the
dark here.
Bob Braun 07-31-2008, 08:18 PM <tmbowman25@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:781bb87a-d6c2-4270-9436-043a5f1455ba@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 30, 9:24 pm, "Bob Braun" <oxin...@hotandsunnymail.com> wrote:
> "Chaos_Not@Home" <mel...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f0fc4657-ccef-47dd-b677-48b72b45f913@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram. If
> > they do, wouldn't you think there is some shot the BoSox would come
> > after Dunn?
>
> The Reds filled the Hamilton hole with Corey Patterson. I shudder to think
> what they will go after to replace Adam Dunn!
I'm pretty sure Hamilton was traded with Bruce in mind. Frankly, I'm
not sure why we signed Patterson. I guess brass felt Freel/Hopper
couldnt hold down cf until May. Turns out they were right.
>
> Manny makes Adam look like a gold glove.
>
> Should be interesting.
I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
Manny while battling for first place (manny at 140 ops+ right now), or
that the Marlins would pick him up. Did manny have an incident that
caused the RS to sour on him?
I dont pay attention to anything that happens in Boston so i'm in the
dark here.
*********************************
Yeah, he shoved the traveling secretary and knocked him down. Some sort of
dispute over leaving tickets. Another 'Manny being Manny' reference.
Can he out-hit his defense and personality?
tmbowman25@yahoo.com 07-31-2008, 10:37 PM On Jul 31, 3:45 am, Kevin McClave <kmcclaveSPAM D...@HEREtwcny.rr.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:10:38 -0700 (PDT), "Chaos_Not@Home"
>
> <mel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram.
>
> Is it just me, or does baseball have some of the worst nicknames ever?
>
Actually, this is this first time i'd ever heard him refered to as Man-
Ram. Is it necessary? Does he even need a nickname or was he going to
be confused with all the other mannys out there. I dont think so. Only
one player comes to mind when i hear "manny" or "pedro" or even "pete"
for that matter.
On an aside, i think baseball has a very inneresting history with
regards to accepted nicknames and how they've changed over the years.
Many of them used to be dreamed up by sportswriters. Nowadays, many of
them seem to have a "street" feel and tend to be contractions of the
players name. personally, i dont like the current trends. Maybe things
will come full circle and we'll have nicknames again like "the staten
island scot"; or maybe they wont but they will seem to and players
will have nicknames like "Nig" or "Whitey".
I'm listening to XM 70's station and they're playing "Beth" by Kiss.
It was a huge hit for them. I think its probably the worst song i've
ever heard.
tom dunne 07-31-2008, 10:49 PM On Jul 31, 12:04 pm, tmbowma...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
> Manny while battling for first place
It turns out that the Red Sox flipped for Jason Bay, an equivalent
hitter who plays much better defense, is younger and under contract
through 2009 for about $13 million less. Moreover, he's not an idiot
malcontent who dodges tough pitchers or assaults clubhouse staff. It
costs the Sox some prospects to make the deal, but this sort of move
is why they're the best run organization in MLB.
Chaos_Not@Home 08-01-2008, 02:30 AM On Jul 31, 5:49 pm, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 31, 12:04 pm, tmbowma...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
> > Manny while battling for first place
>
> It turns out that the Red Sox flipped for Jason Bay, an equivalent
> hitter who plays much better defense, is younger and under contract
> through 2009 for about $13 million less. Moreover, he's not an idiot
> malcontent who dodges tough pitchers or assaults clubhouse staff. It
> costs the Sox some prospects to make the deal, but this sort of move
> is why they're the best run organization in MLB.
Jason Bay is equivalent to Ramirez?
David Short 08-01-2008, 04:06 AM "Chaos_Not@Home" <melott@gmail.com> wrote in message
On Jul 31, 5:49 pm, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 31, 12:04 pm, tmbowma...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> > I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
>> > Manny while battling for first place
>>
>> It turns out that the Red Sox flipped for Jason Bay, an equivalent
>> hitter who plays much better defense, is younger and under contract
>> through 2009 for about $13 million less. Moreover, he's not an idiot
>> malcontent who dodges tough pitchers or assaults clubhouse staff. It
>> costs the Sox some prospects to make the deal, but this sort of move
>> is why they're the best run organization in MLB.
>
>Jason Bay is equivalent to Ramirez?
Not that Tom needs my help, but look at the ops+ for the last 5 season
A B C
04 132 152 146
05 150 153 141
06 138 165 114
07 98 126 136
08 135 140 143
Age 29 36 28
Makes 3mill 20 mill 10 mill
Player B is a pain in the rear and can't play defense.
Player C can't play defense
Bay is A. Many is B. Going forward I would just as soon have A than B. Given
the money situation, it's a no brainer.
Player C of course is Adam Dunn. Dang I hope the reds get a contract worked
out with him.
dfs
tom dunne 08-01-2008, 04:39 AM On Jul 31, 9:30 pm, "Chaos_Not@Home" <mel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 31, 5:49 pm, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 31, 12:04 pm, tmbowma...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
> > > Manny while battling for first place
>
> > It turns out that the Red Sox flipped for Jason Bay, an equivalent
> > hitter who plays much better defense, is younger and under contract
> > through 2009 for about $13 million less. Moreover, he's not an idiot
> > malcontent who dodges tough pitchers or assaults clubhouse staff. It
> > costs the Sox some prospects to make the deal, but this sort of move
> > is why they're the best run organization in MLB.
>
> Jason Bay is equivalent to Ramirez?
David posted the numbers, but yeah, more or less. The five points of
OPS+ that Ramirez has on Bay this year don't mean much, especially
considering four of the nine games Ramirez has missed this year came
against Justin Duchscherer, Joba Chamberlain and *twice* against Felix
Hernandez. When your .929 OPS leftfielder mysteriously gets an achy
knee when dominant pitchers are on the hill, then it's a question of
having Bay in the lineup or your team's fourth outfielder taking the
ABs.
JustTom 08-01-2008, 12:47 PM On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:04:09 -0700 (PDT), tmbowman25@yahoo.com wrote:
> I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
>Manny while battling for first place (manny at 140 ops+ right now), or
>that the Marlins would pick him up. Did manny have an incident that
>caused the RS to sour on him?
>
> I dont pay attention to anything that happens in Boston so i'm in the
>dark here.
>
Aah, let me count the ways.
First, during the Coco Crisp "scuffle", cameras caught him lolling
around jogging with Sabathia, very late to the affair and apparanlty
laughing at the whole thing. His teammates, especially Youkilis,
didn't appreciate it and they got into a scuffle in the dugout later
in the game..
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/06/06/no_dirt_on_ramrez_youkilis_dust_up/
Not a big deal in itself, and the papers left it alone..
Then, only days after Chacon made headlines by knocking down the aging
GM of the astros and basically ending his career, Manny knocks down
the aging travelling secretary in a parking lot because he couldn't
get him as many tickets to a game in Houston as he wanted, and had to
be pulled off by onlookers. Bad enough to publically beat up on a
guy in his mid 60's, but to do it in Houston on heels of Chacon
incident magnified it. And to make it worse, the Sox didn't punish
him at all. This time writers were all over it, and openly questioned
why the sox were being so lax on it, and espn got to do the "superstar
vs grunt" angle, since chacon and ramirez did exactly the same thing,
yet the punishments were miles apart. One guy got kicked off the
team and out of the league while the other got nothing.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/06/manny_ramirez_w.html
But the topper was last weekend. In this espn slanted world, red
sox vs yankees are the end all be all of everything, and I think even
the teams try to support the hype and many buy into it.
Friday night, without telling anyone beforehand, he pulled himself out
of the lineup jsut before the start with a "knee problem". It
pissed off Francona, Epstein, and the owner to the point that they
called his bluff and forced him to have an MRI, which revealed nothing
was wrong. After the game, Francona was clearly irritated, and
basically refused to defend him.
Sportwriters all over that one, including Gammons, who's pointed out
that Manny has been getting into the habit of ducking good pitchers
with phantom injuries, usually when they really need him.
Check out this quote:
<paste>
Everyone in the clubhouse knows the names. Joba Chamberlain (twice),
Felix Hernandez (twice), Edinson Volquez, Justin Verlander -- pitchers
that Manny Ramirez didn't feel quite right to face, be it a knee, a
hamstring, his contract or the pitcher's velocity, and those he left
for someone else in the Red Sox "family" to face.
Everyone knows what this latest soap opera is about. It's about Manny
being only about Manny -- not the team that will have paid him $168
million when this season's over, not "teammates" he leaves to answer
for him, not winning or any competitive motivation.
No. Manny being Manny means Manny wanting money. He doesn't want to
wait for the Red Sox to exercise the right he gave them for the first
$168M, the right to decide at the end of the season whether or not to
pick up his option for 2009 at $20M. The Red Sox fulfilled their end
of the contract; now he doesn't want to fulfill his obligation, the
same way he watched his teammates fade in 2006.
Oh, we all hear the analysis of how much the Red Sox need him. That
is, if he doesn't bag it, which he was willing to do until John Henry
and Tom Werner joined with Theo Epstein and Terry Francona on Friday,
enraged at him for skipping Chamberlain, and forced him to take an MRI
for the knee affliction known as Felix-Joba-itis.
<paste>
The true story is that Manny was pouting because he wanted them to
pick up his option early, and started his yearly bullshit about
wanting out of Boston. In past years, Bosox just grit their teeth
and ride it out, because there's nothing really they could do about
it. Multiple years left on monster contract making him virtually
untradeable, and still putting up very good numbers.
This year though is the last in his deal, coupled with the fact his
numbers have been declining the past few years makes him tradable,
and with their offense, they could actually swallow the hit, and
unless they replace him with a lamppost in LF, the defense was
guaranteed to be better.
Replacing him with Bay is a really good fit and getting rid of the
drama is a huge bonus.
In a way it's sad that it took ducking a yankee game as the last straw
instead of beating up an old man, but that's one of the reasons the
red sox are becoming so universally despised as one of the bad guys,
kind of "yankee lite".
JustTom 08-01-2008, 04:32 PM On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:36:59 -0700 (PDT), "Chaos_Not@Home"
<melott@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 31, 6:45=A0am, Kevin McClave <kmcclaveSPAM D...@HEREtwcny.rr.com>
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:10:38 -0700 (PDT), "Chaos_Not@Home"
>>
>> <mel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >I've heard that the Florida Marlins might make a play for Man-Ram. =A0
>>
>> Is it just me, or does baseball have some of the worst nicknames ever?
>>
>
>When I was watching the game last night, I was thinking of how
>(Grande?) one of the annoucers used to add "-ie" to everyone's name...
>like "Boonie", so Cordero would be "Cordie"
>
>Keppinger - Keppie
>Encarnacion - Encarnie (smells of cabbage?)
>
>There used to be some great nicknames... I'll have to break out my
>APBA cards.
>
I remember a similar thread to this a couple of years ago, and I said
that the reds had the best nicknames around. Still feel that way.
At the time, we had "the kid", Harangatang, the Mayor, and one of my
all time favorites, the Big Donkey. And I'm pretty sure when I hear
the players talk about Eddie, they call him "ESquare".
I don't recall why, but I think AGon got the handle of "seabass"
early on while playing for the fish. And I think I still hear even
ESPN refer to Hamilton as "Hobbes" from time to time.
"Wily Mo", while not a nickname is still amusing to say. I can't
hear it without hearing Marty saying "Wily Mo, Wily Mo, Wily Mo" after
a particularly entertaining play in the field one day.
Homer's still a pretty screwed up nickname for a pitcher.
Chaos_Not@Home 08-01-2008, 05:04 PM On Jul 31, 11:39 pm, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 31, 9:30 pm, "Chaos_Not@Home" <mel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 31, 5:49 pm, tom dunne <dunn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 31, 12:04 pm, tmbowma...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > I dont know whats more headscratching, that the Red Sox would dump
> > > > Manny while battling for first place
>
> > > It turns out that the Red Sox flipped for Jason Bay, an equivalent
> > > hitter who plays much better defense, is younger and under contract
> > > through 2009 for about $13 million less. Moreover, he's not an idiot
> > > malcontent who dodges tough pitchers or assaults clubhouse staff. It
> > > costs the Sox some prospects to make the deal, but this sort of move
> > > is why they're the best run organization in MLB.
>
> > Jason Bay is equivalent to Ramirez?
>
> David posted the numbers, but yeah, more or less. The five points of
> OPS+ that Ramirez has on Bay this year don't mean much, especially
> considering four of the nine games Ramirez has missed this year came
> against Justin Duchscherer, Joba Chamberlain and *twice* against Felix
> Hernandez. When your .929 OPS leftfielder mysteriously gets an achy
> knee when dominant pitchers are on the hill, then it's a question of
> having Bay in the lineup or your team's fourth outfielder taking the
> ABs.
I didn't get a chance to get back on line last night. My question was
a question, not really questioning Tom persay. I did look last night
and didn't realize all of Bay's numbers. That vs HoF Ramirez made me
question it.
Well Boston may very well be in a better position.
Thanks for the input David/Tom
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