http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-9gD927LD903

Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give his client
probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler. Amon, who could have
imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the former ref credit for cooperating
with investigators, but scolded him for disgracing the sport.

"The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job in an
honest manner," she said.

In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve three
years of supervised release.

Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old Donaghy
apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my family," he said.



===



Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the claims to
get a lighter sentence.

"We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with the
changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will enable us to
continue with the improvements we are making to our anti-gambling rules,
policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.

"There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison sentence,
especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their mother, but
hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for all."

The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in the wake
of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as senior vice
president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe Borgia were promoted
to new management positions and the league reassigned Ronnie Nunn, who had
been the director of officials for five years.

Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal and
betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the report, though
it did not set a date for that Tuesday.

Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were sentenced to
over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.

James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict, got 15
months in prison for making bets based on inside tips. Thomas Martino, the
scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and one day for paying the
referee thousands of dollars for the tips. The three men attended school
together in Springfield, Pa.

The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the judge
last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly by the three
defendants.

"Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or justify the
damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are glad to finally put
this behind us," said Lamell McMorris, spokesperson for the National
Basketball Referees Association.

"Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has forever
compromised the way people look at sports and officiating. However, NBA
referees will continue to officiate with the highest level of integrity and
professionalism."

"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:

> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
9gD927LD90
> 3
>
> Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give his
> client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler. Amon, who
> could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the former ref credit
> for cooperating with investigators, but scolded him for disgracing the
> sport.
>
> "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job in
> an honest manner," she said.
>
> In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
> three years of supervised release.
>
> Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old Donaghy
> apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my family," he
> said.
>
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
> Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
> claims to get a lighter sentence.
>
> "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with the
> changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will enable us
> to continue with the improvements we are making to our anti-gambling
> rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>
> "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
> sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
> mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
> all."
>
> The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in the
> wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as senior
> vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe Borgia were
> promoted to new management positions and the league reassigned Ronnie
> Nunn, who had been the director of officials for five years.
>
> Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal and
> betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the report,
> though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>
> Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
> sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>
> James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict, got
> 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips. Thomas
> Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and one day
> for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips. The three
> men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>
> The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
> judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly by
> the three defendants.
>
> "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or justify
> the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are glad to
> finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris, spokesperson for
> the National Basketball Referees Association.
>
> "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
> forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
> However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
> level of integrity and professionalism."
>
But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
nation.

Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!

--
"I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
for the office of the presidency."

- John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago

> But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
> Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
> nation.

Don't worry. Obatman will fix it.

Terraholm wrote:
> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-9gD927LD903
>
> Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give his client
> probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler. Amon, who could have
> imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the former ref credit for cooperating
> with investigators, but scolded him for disgracing the sport.

<snip>

> Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old Donaghy
> apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my family," he said.

And the NBA, dumb-ass...

> Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the claims to
> get a lighter sentence.
>
> "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with the
> changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will enable us to
> continue with the improvements we are making to our anti-gambling rules,
> policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.

<snip>

> "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or justify the
> damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are glad to finally put
> this behind us," said Lamell McMorris, spokesperson for the National
> Basketball Referees Association.
>
> "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has forever
> compromised the way people look at sports and officiating. However, NBA
> referees will continue to officiate with the highest level of integrity and
> professionalism."

That's good to know. I'll be able to sleep well tonight.


- Peter

On Jul 29, 1:04 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>
>
>
> >http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
> 9gD927LD90
> > 3
>
> > Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give his
> > client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler. Amon, who
> > could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the former ref credit
> > for cooperating with investigators, but scolded him for disgracing the
> > sport.
>
> > "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job in
> > an honest manner," she said.
>
> > In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
> > three years of supervised release.
>
> > Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old Donaghy
> > apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my family," he
> > said.
>
> > ===
>
> > Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
> > claims to get a lighter sentence.
>
> > "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with the
> > changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will enable us
> > to continue with the improvements we are making to our anti-gambling
> > rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>
> > "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
> > sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
> > mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
> > all."
>
> > The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in the
> > wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as senior
> > vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe Borgia were
> > promoted to new management positions and the league reassigned Ronnie
> > Nunn, who had been the director of officials for five years.
>
> > Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal and
> > betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the report,
> > though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>
> > Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
> > sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>
> > James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict, got
> > 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips. Thomas
> > Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and one day
> > for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips. The three
> > men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>
> > The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
> > judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly by
> > the three defendants.
>
> > "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or justify
> > the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are glad to
> > finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris, spokesperson for
> > the National Basketball Referees Association.
>
> > "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
> > forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
> > However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
> > level of integrity and professionalism."
>
> But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
> Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
> nation.
>
> Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>

I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as the
Messiah is elected.

On Jul 29, 1:26 pm, Peter Lawrence <hummb...@aol.com> wrote:
> Terraholm wrote:
> >http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-9gD927LD903
>
> > Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give his client
> > probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler. Amon, who could have
> > imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the former ref credit for cooperating
> > with investigators, but scolded him for disgracing the sport.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old Donaghy
> > apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my family," he said.
>
> And the NBA, dumb-ass...
>
> > Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the claims to
> > get a lighter sentence.
>
> > "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with the
> > changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will enable us to
> > continue with the improvements we are making to our anti-gambling rules,
> > policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>
> <snip>
>
> > "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or justify the
> > damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are glad to finally put
> > this behind us," said Lamell McMorris, spokesperson for the National
> > Basketball Referees Association.
>
> > "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has forever
> > compromised the way people look at sports and officiating. However, NBA
> > referees will continue to officiate with the highest level of integrity and
> > professionalism."

Unless they are officiating a Lakers game.

> > Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>
> I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as the
> Messiah is elected

Here he comes to save the day!
Obatman is on the way!

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:33:56 -0700 (PDT), mozark <swooning@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> > Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>>
>> I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as the
>> Messiah is elected
>
>Here he comes to save the day!
>Obatman is on the way!

Dont forget your vote counts batmozark....

On 29 Jul 2008 20:04:37 GMT, theBZA <dewey3kNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>
>> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
>9gD927LD90
>> 3
>>
>> Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give his
>> client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler. Amon, who
>> could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the former ref credit
>> for cooperating with investigators, but scolded him for disgracing the
>> sport.
>>
>> "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job in
>> an honest manner," she said.
>>
>> In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
>> three years of supervised release.
>>
>> Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old Donaghy
>> apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my family," he
>> said.
>>
>>
>>
>> ===
>>
>>
>>
>> Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
>> claims to get a lighter sentence.
>>
>> "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with the
>> changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will enable us
>> to continue with the improvements we are making to our anti-gambling
>> rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>>
>> "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
>> sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
>> mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
>> all."
>>
>> The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in the
>> wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as senior
>> vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe Borgia were
>> promoted to new management positions and the league reassigned Ronnie
>> Nunn, who had been the director of officials for five years.
>>
>> Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal and
>> betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the report,
>> though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>>
>> Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
>> sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>>
>> James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict, got
>> 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips. Thomas
>> Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and one day
>> for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips. The three
>> men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>>
>> The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
>> judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly by
>> the three defendants.
>>
>> "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or justify
>> the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are glad to
>> finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris, spokesperson for
>> the National Basketball Referees Association.
>>
>> "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
>> forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
>> However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
>> level of integrity and professionalism."
>>
>But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
>Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
>nation.
>
>Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!

Sorry, there is nothing legal done by Gonzalez. People don't
understand the DoJ has full right to hire and fire any Federal
Attorney as they please. When Clinton took over his bitch at DoJ
fired all the Federal attornies hired by George Bush Sr. Funny why
that wasn't "big news" back then.

It is only news when liberal outlets made it news, anyone that knows
the political landscape realizes it's common practice. My only
surprise is Bush Jr. failed to explain this and tried to cover it up,
what a dork he is.

Doctor Chen wrote:

> Sorry, there is nothing legal done by Gonzalez.

Exactly =)


--
Laurel T
"This country has nothing to fear from the crooked man who fails.
We put him in jail. It is the crooked man who succeeds
who is a threat to this country." Theodore Roosevelt

I'm a legal dumbass, so someone explain this to me: What exactly did
Donaghy do wrong? There's a private concern -- the NBA. It has some
empoyees, including Donaghy. He behaved in a way that violated his
contract. What more is there to do than to fire him? The whole
gambling business -- the NBA stays clear of an official stake for good
reasons. Donaghy's actions may have affected that business, but it's
not like the sports books lost money -- they move the line so that
there's equal money on both sides and they make their's regardless.

Frank Rizzo <champ91917@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:c5a304a3-e4ba-4ff8-b563-3b05edb82b2e@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 29, 1:04 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> innews:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>>
>>
>>
>> >http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
>> 9gD927LD90
>> > 3
>>
>> > Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give
>> > his client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler.
>> > Amon, who could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the
>> > former ref credit for cooperating with investigators, but scolded
>> > him for disgracing the sport.
>>
>> > "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job
>> > in an honest manner," she said.
>>
>> > In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
>> > three years of supervised release.
>>
>> > Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old
>> > Donaghy apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my
>> > family," he said.
>>
>> > ===
>>
>> > Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
>> > claims to get a lighter sentence.
>>
>> > "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with
>> > the changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will
>> > enable us to continue with the improvements we are making to our
>> > anti-gambling rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>>
>> > "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
>> > sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
>> > mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
>> > all."
>>
>> > The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in
>> > the wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as
>> > senior vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe
>> > Borgia were promoted to new management positions and the league
>> > reassigned Ronnie Nunn, who had been the director of officials for
>> > five years.
>>
>> > Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal
>> > and betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the
>> > report, though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>>
>> > Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
>> > sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>>
>> > James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict,
>> > got 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips.
>> > Thomas Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and
>> > one day for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips.
>> > The three men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>>
>> > The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
>> > judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly
>> > by the three defendants.
>>
>> > "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or
>> > justify the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are
>> > glad to finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris,
>> > spokesperson for the National Basketball Referees Association.
>>
>> > "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
>> > forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
>> > However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
>> > level of integrity and professionalism."
>>
>> But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
>> Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
>> nation.
>>
>> Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>>
>
> I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as the
> Messiah is elected.
>
I thought Bush was the Messiah. After all, he talks to God.

--
"I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
for the office of the presidency."

- John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago

Doctor Chen <drchen@comcast.net> wrote in
news:ermv84dini0bju6sfbck0rorq9o65ai7jr@4ax.com:

> On 29 Jul 2008 20:04:37 GMT, theBZA <dewey3kNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>news:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>>
>>> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
>>9gD927LD90
>>> 3
>>>
>>> Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give
>>> his client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler.
>>> Amon, who could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the
>>> former ref credit for cooperating with investigators, but scolded
>>> him for disgracing the sport.
>>>
>>> "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job
>>> in an honest manner," she said.
>>>
>>> In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
>>> three years of supervised release.
>>>
>>> Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old
>>> Donaghy apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my
>>> family," he said.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
>>> claims to get a lighter sentence.
>>>
>>> "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with
>>> the changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will
>>> enable us to continue with the improvements we are making to our
>>> anti-gambling rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>>>
>>> "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
>>> sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
>>> mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
>>> all."
>>>
>>> The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in
>>> the wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as
>>> senior vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe
>>> Borgia were promoted to new management positions and the league
>>> reassigned Ronnie Nunn, who had been the director of officials for
>>> five years.
>>>
>>> Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal
>>> and betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the
>>> report, though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>>>
>>> Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
>>> sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>>>
>>> James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict, got
>>> 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips. Thomas
>>> Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and one day
>>> for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips. The three
>>> men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>>>
>>> The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
>>> judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly
>>> by the three defendants.
>>>
>>> "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or
>>> justify the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are
>>> glad to finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris,
>>> spokesperson for the National Basketball Referees Association.
>>>
>>> "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
>>> forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
>>> However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
>>> level of integrity and professionalism."
>>>
>>But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
>>Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
>>nation.
>>
>>Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>
> Sorry, there is nothing legal done by Gonzalez. People don't
> understand the DoJ has full right to hire and fire any Federal
> Attorney as they please. When Clinton took over his bitch at DoJ
> fired all the Federal attornies hired by George Bush Sr. Funny why
> that wasn't "big news" back then.
>
> It is only news when liberal outlets made it news, anyone that knows
> the political landscape realizes it's common practice. My only
> surprise is Bush Jr. failed to explain this and tried to cover it up,
> what a dork he is.
>
So glad to see you can follow current events.

--
"I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
for the office of the presidency."

- John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago

On Jul 30, 7:39 am, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a legal dumbass, so someone explain this to me: What exactly did
> Donaghy do wrong? There's a private concern -- the NBA. It has some
> empoyees, including Donaghy. He behaved in a way that violated his
> contract. What more is there to do than to fire him? The whole
> gambling business -- the NBA stays clear of an official stake for good
> reasons. Donaghy's actions may have affected that business, but it's
> not like the sports books lost money -- they move the line so that
> there's equal money on both sides and they make their's regardless.

I think he was aiding the racketeering business and obstructing the
justice department investigation. It doesn't really matter. This is
just grandstanding by the DOJ. Let's recap shall we?


2 Wars currently running, Al Qaeda threatens, Iran has mid range
missles and getting nukes, and the DOJ nabs: Martha Stewart and Tim
Donaghy, still charging Barry Bonds with Perjury, and congress is
investigating and prodding the DOJ to go after Roger Clemens. Makes
you feel safer already. Way to prioritize folks.

FYI, I offered NSA & CIA my full time analyst services at less than
25% of my current income level. I told them I have 150+ IQ that I
can document from different independent and government sponsored
entities, and that patriotism my motivation, I'd relocate to the east
coast or wherever. My father served, my uncle, my brother etc, and I
haven't. I'm too old for the armed forces. I just want to make my
country safer from all threats. They never returned the email(s). I
guess they only want the "best and brightest".

Oh and BTW, this isn't a BUSH thing. This is a US Govt is full of
complete morons rant.


At least we can sleep safely knowing that 90+% of all shipping cargo
goes uninspected through Newark, Oakland, Seattle and Long Beach. Do
the fucking math dip shits. These guys are still chasing their tails
at the airports (reactive) and not inspecting the cargo (proactive).

Rizzo

On Jul 30, 12:32 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:c5a304a3-e4ba-4ff8-b563-3b05edb82b2e@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 1:04 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> innews:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>
> >> >http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
> >> 9gD927LD90
> >> > 3
>
> >> > Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give
> >> > his client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler.
> >> > Amon, who could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the
> >> > former ref credit for cooperating with investigators, but scolded
> >> > him for disgracing the sport.
>
> >> > "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job
> >> > in an honest manner," she said.
>
> >> > In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
> >> > three years of supervised release.
>
> >> > Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old
> >> > Donaghy apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my
> >> > family," he said.
>
> >> > ===
>
> >> > Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
> >> > claims to get a lighter sentence.
>
> >> > "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with
> >> > the changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will
> >> > enable us to continue with the improvements we are making to our
> >> > anti-gambling rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>
> >> > "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
> >> > sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
> >> > mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
> >> > all."
>
> >> > The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in
> >> > the wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as
> >> > senior vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe
> >> > Borgia were promoted to new management positions and the league
> >> > reassigned Ronnie Nunn, who had been the director of officials for
> >> > five years.
>
> >> > Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal
> >> > and betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the
> >> > report, though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>
> >> > Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
> >> > sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>
> >> > James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict,
> >> > got 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips.
> >> > Thomas Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and
> >> > one day for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips.
> >> > The three men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>
> >> > The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
> >> > judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly
> >> > by the three defendants.
>
> >> > "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or
> >> > justify the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are
> >> > glad to finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris,
> >> > spokesperson for the National Basketball Referees Association.
>
> >> > "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
> >> > forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
> >> > However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
> >> > level of integrity and professionalism."
>
> >> But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
> >> Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
> >> nation.
>
> >> Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>
> > I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as the
> > Messiah is elected.
>
> I thought Bush was the Messiah. After all, he talks to God.
>
> --
> "I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
> as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
> for the office of the presidency."
>
> - John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
> in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago

Bush is not the Messiah. He is a religious guy who wants to protect
the country and bankrupt it at the same time. He wrote another $300
Billion check this AM. Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
campaign staff.

An analogy that is appropriate to the Obama (w/Reid and Pelosi) vs
McCain (Kyl) is "Would you rather be kicked in the balls or punched in
the eye". We're screwed either way, we're giving away our money and
our future and our freedoms. AND we're doing it enthusiastically.

you go on cheering for that Messiah.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Frank Rizzo
<champ91917@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jul 30, 12:32 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:c5a304a3-e4ba-4ff8-b563-3b05edb82b2e@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 29, 1:04 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> >> innews:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>>
>> >> >http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
>> >> 9gD927LD90
>> >> > 3
>>
>> >> > Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give
>> >> > his client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler.
>> >> > Amon, who could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the
>> >> > former ref credit for cooperating with investigators, but scolded
>> >> > him for disgracing the sport.
>>
>> >> > "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job
>> >> > in an honest manner," she said.
>>
>> >> > In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
>> >> > three years of supervised release.
>>
>> >> > Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old
>> >> > Donaghy apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my
>> >> > family," he said.
>>
>> >> > ===
>>
>> >> > Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
>> >> > claims to get a lighter sentence.
>>
>> >> > "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with
>> >> > the changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will
>> >> > enable us to continue with the improvements we are making to our
>> >> > anti-gambling rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>>
>> >> > "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
>> >> > sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
>> >> > mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
>> >> > all."
>>
>> >> > The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in
>> >> > the wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as
>> >> > senior vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe
>> >> > Borgia were promoted to new management positions and the league
>> >> > reassigned Ronnie Nunn, who had been the director of officials for
>> >> > five years.
>>
>> >> > Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal
>> >> > and betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the
>> >> > report, though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>>
>> >> > Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
>> >> > sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>>
>> >> > James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict,
>> >> > got 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips.
>> >> > Thomas Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and
>> >> > one day for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips.
>> >> > The three men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>>
>> >> > The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
>> >> > judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly
>> >> > by the three defendants.
>>
>> >> > "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or
>> >> > justify the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are
>> >> > glad to finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris,
>> >> > spokesperson for the National Basketball Referees Association.
>>
>> >> > "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
>> >> > forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
>> >> > However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
>> >> > level of integrity and professionalism."
>>
>> >> But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
>> >> Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
>> >> nation.
>>
>> >> Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>>
>> > I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as the
>> > Messiah is elected.
>>
>> I thought Bush was the Messiah. After all, he talks to God.
>>
>> --
>> "I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
>> as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
>> for the office of the presidency."
>>
>> - John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
>> in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago
>
>Bush is not the Messiah. He is a religious guy who wants to protect
>the country and bankrupt it at the same time. He wrote another $300
>Billion check this AM. Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
>haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
>They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
>policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
>campaign staff.
>
>An analogy that is appropriate to the Obama (w/Reid and Pelosi) vs
>McCain (Kyl) is "Would you rather be kicked in the balls or punched in
>the eye". We're screwed either way, we're giving away our money and
>our future and our freedoms. AND we're doing it enthusiastically.
>
>you go on cheering for that Messiah.

Who bush??? LOL!!!

On Jul 30, 6:48 pm, Syfo-Dyas <Syfo-D...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Frank Rizzo
>
>
>
> <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 30, 12:32 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:c5a304a3-e4ba-4ff8-b563-3b05edb82b2e@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > On Jul 29, 1:04 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> >> innews:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>
> >> >> >http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
> >> >> 9gD927LD90
> >> >> > 3
>
> >> >> > Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to give
> >> >> > his client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological gambler.
> >> >> > Amon, who could have imposed a sentence of 33 months, gave the
> >> >> > former ref credit for cooperating with investigators, but scolded
> >> >> > him for disgracing the sport.
>
> >> >> > "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his job
> >> >> > in an honest manner," she said.
>
> >> >> > In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to serve
> >> >> > three years of supervised release.
>
> >> >> > Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old
> >> >> > Donaghy apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and my
> >> >> > family," he said.
>
> >> >> > ===
>
> >> >> > Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
> >> >> > claims to get a lighter sentence.
>
> >> >> > "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together with
> >> >> > the changes we have made to our referee operations staff, will
> >> >> > enable us to continue with the improvements we are making to our
> >> >> > anti-gambling rules, policies and procedures," Stern said Tuesday.
>
> >> >> > "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
> >> >> > sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and their
> >> >> > mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in earnest for
> >> >> > all."
>
> >> >> > The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program in
> >> >> > the wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was hired as
> >> >> > senior vice president of referee operations, Bernie Fryer and Joe
> >> >> > Borgia were promoted to new management positions and the league
> >> >> > reassigned Ronnie Nunn, who had been the director of officials for
> >> >> > five years.
>
> >> >> > Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy scandal
> >> >> > and betting among officials. The NBA has promised to release the
> >> >> > report, though it did not set a date for that Tuesday.
>
> >> >> > Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
> >> >> > sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the scheme.
>
> >> >> > James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict,
> >> >> > got 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips.
> >> >> > Thomas Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year and
> >> >> > one day for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the tips.
> >> >> > The three men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>
> >> >> > The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But the
> >> >> > judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid jointly
> >> >> > by the three defendants.
>
> >> >> > "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or
> >> >> > justify the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are
> >> >> > glad to finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris,
> >> >> > spokesperson for the National Basketball Referees Association.
>
> >> >> > "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
> >> >> > forever compromised the way people look at sports and officiating.
> >> >> > However, NBA referees will continue to officiate with the highest
> >> >> > level of integrity and professionalism."
>
> >> >> But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
> >> >> Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
> >> >> nation.
>
> >> >> Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>
> >> > I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as the
> >> > Messiah is elected.
>
> >> I thought Bush was the Messiah. After all, he talks to God.
>
> >> --
> >> "I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
> >> as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
> >> for the office of the presidency."
>
> >> - John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
> >> in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago
>
> >Bush is not the Messiah. He is a religious guy who wants to protect
> >the country and bankrupt it at the same time. He wrote another $300
> >Billion check this AM. Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
> >haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
> >They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
> >policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
> >campaign staff.
>
> >An analogy that is appropriate to the Obama (w/Reid and Pelosi) vs
> >McCain (Kyl) is "Would you rather be kicked in the balls or punched in
> >the eye". We're screwed either way, we're giving away our money and
> >our future and our freedoms. AND we're doing it enthusiastically.
>
> >you go on cheering for that Messiah.
>
> Who bush??? LOL!!!

I was referring to the Obama Messiah, but as I said, we're screwed
either way.

On Jul 30, 8:41 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
> haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
> They just like him.  The other guy is a war hero with an open border
> policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
> campaign staff.

Saying Obama has fans that may not know his policies, and saying that
McCain has an illegal alien working on his campaign staff, says
nothing of substance -- good or bad -- about either candidate.
Certainly McCain also has plenty of fans cheering for him that haven't
a clue what he's up to (does he even?), and I'd bet Obama's got a few
immigrants without papers working on his staff somewhere too (if just
cleaning the toilets at the office).

So that diatribe is pointless. Both have spoken plenty about their
supposed policies -- like any politician up for election, much of it
is probably bullshit and it should all be taken with a grain of salt
-- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.

Frank Rizzo <champ91917@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:68f827ec-1cf9-4cec-8b0d-350f4911229d@a8g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 30, 12:32 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> innews:c5a304a3-e4ba-4ff8-b563-
3b05edb82b2e@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.c
>> om:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 29, 1:04 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> >> innews:6f9b26Fa948oU2@mid.individual.net:
>>
>> >> >http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hS3sRBxzqMNDpuu9I32UWisA_-
>> >> 9gD927LD90
>> >> > 3
>>
>> >> > Donaghy's lawyer had asked U.S. District Judge Carol Amon to
>> >> > give his client probation, arguing Donaghy is a pathological
>> >> > gambler. Amon, who could have imposed a sentence of 33 months,
>> >> > gave the former ref credit for cooperating with investigators,
>> >> > but scolded him for disgracing the sport.
>>
>> >> > "The NBA, the players and the fans relied on him to perform his
>> >> > job in an honest manner," she said.
>>
>> >> > In addition to the prison time, the judge ordered Donaghy to
>> >> > serve three years of supervised release.
>>
>> >> > Folding his arms but showing no other emotion, the 41-year-old
>> >> > Donaghy apologized to the court. "I brought shame on myself and
>> >> > my family," he said.
>>
>> >> > ===
>>
>> >> > Both Stern and the league's officials have said Donaghy made the
>> >> > claims to get a lighter sentence.
>>
>> >> > "We anticipate that the judge's sentencing decision, together
>> >> > with the changes we have made to our referee operations staff,
>> >> > will enable us to continue with the improvements we are making
>> >> > to our anti-gambling rules, policies and procedures," Stern said
>> >> > Tuesday.
>>
>> >> > "There is little comfort to be gained from the mandatory prison
>> >> > sentence, especially as it affects Mr. Donaghy's children and
>> >> > their mother, but hopefully the healing process can begin in
>> >> > earnest for all."
>>
>> >> > The NBA has made a number of changes to its officiating program
>> >> > in the wake of the scandal. Former Army Gen. Ron Johnson was
>> >> > hired as senior vice president of referee operations, Bernie
>> >> > Fryer and Joe Borgia were promoted to new management positions
>> >> > and the league reassigned Ronnie Nunn, who had been the director
>> >> > of officials for five years.
>>
>> >> > Still pending is a report from the league into the Donaghy
>> >> > scandal and betting among officials. The NBA has promised to
>> >> > release the report, though it did not set a date for that
>> >> > Tuesday.
>>
>> >> > Last week, two of Donaghy's former high school classmates were
>> >> > sentenced to over a year in prison for their roles in the
>> >> > scheme.
>>
>> >> > James Battista, a professional gambler and admitted drug addict,
>> >> > got 15 months in prison for making bets based on inside tips.
>> >> > Thomas Martino, the scheme's middleman, was sentenced to a year
>> >> > and one day for paying the referee thousands of dollars for the
>> >> > tips. The three men attended school together in Springfield, Pa.
>>
>> >> > The league had demanded nearly $1.4 million in restitution. But
>> >> > the judge last week set the restitution at $217,266, to be paid
>> >> > jointly by the three defendants.
>>
>> >> > "Though we believe no sentence would ever be able to repair or
>> >> > justify the damage caused by this criminal and scoundrel, we are
>> >> > glad to finally put this behind us," said Lamell McMorris,
>> >> > spokesperson for the National Basketball Referees Association.
>>
>> >> > "Tim acted in a completely selfish and unforgivable way, and has
>> >> > forever compromised the way people look at sports and
>> >> > officiating. However, NBA referees will continue to officiate
>> >> > with the highest level of integrity and professionalism."
>>
>> >> But no one will do time for the illegal hiring (and firing) at
>> >> Albertorture Gonzalez DoJ. What fucked up priorities we have as a
>> >> nation.
>>
>> >> Vote for McCain! The Whiners' Candidate!
>>
>> > I'm so glad that everything will be all better for you as soon as
>> > the Messiah is elected.
>>
>> I thought Bush was the Messiah. After all, he talks to God.
>>
>> --
>> "I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
>> as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
>> for the office of the presidency."
>>
>> - John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
>> in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago
>
> Bush is not the Messiah. He is a religious guy who wants to protect
> the country and bankrupt it at the same time. He wrote another $300
> Billion check this AM. Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who

"I was chosen by God"
- George W. Bush, Fedruary 5, 2007

"He was hand picked by the man upstairs and that's good enough for me,"
- Tammy Foster, a spot welder from Norman, Oklahoma

"There was only one Jesus, but in all humility I probably come closer to
him than anyone else this millennium."
- George W. Bush

"I was just walking across the parking lot and suddenly saw Bush rising
from the dead - bugs that is. Witnessing that miracle was awe-inspiring.
I've decided to devote the rest of my life to giving Bush a life term as
president."
- Wilma Featherling

"God speaks through me."
- George W. Bush

"Anybody looking at the 2000 election would have to say it was.a
miraculous deliverance, and I think people felt it again this year
[2004].God is giving us a chance to repent and to restore some moral
sanity to American life."
- Evangelical Leader Charles Colson

"The Bible says godly leadership is a sign of God's blessings and a lack
of godly leadership is a sign of God's judgment. I don't see Kerry as a
godly leader."
- Richard Land, Baptist Minister

"God gave this President and this President's Party one more chance.God
heard the fervent prayers of millions of values voters to keep His hand
on America one more time despite our national sins of denying the right
to life, despite ignoring the Biblical injunction against acts which are
`an abomination unto the Lord' and despite the blatant attempt to remove
God from the public square."
- Paul Weyrich, founder of the Free Congress Foundation

"Yesterday America cried out and He heard from heaven and answered our
prayers. PRAISE GOD!!"
- email sent by Jim Rogers of the group Mission America the day after
the 2004 election

"God has graciously granted America-though she doesn't deserve it-a
reprieve from the agenda of paganism."
- OPen letter from the president of Bob Jones University, posted on
their website the day after the election

Bush's reelection "was God's signal that he's giving us more time to get
our act together. I think this nation is going down the tubes very
quickly."
- Diana Sheehan, a Pennsylvania mother and housewife

> haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
> They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
> policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
> campaign staff.
>
> An analogy that is appropriate to the Obama (w/Reid and Pelosi) vs
> McCain (Kyl) is "Would you rather be kicked in the balls or punched in
> the eye". We're screwed either way, we're giving away our money and
> our future and our freedoms. AND we're doing it enthusiastically.
>
> you go on cheering for that Messiah.
>
Bush is the Messiah. By your own standard.


--
"I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
for the office of the presidency."

- John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago

Noah <dontsendmeyerspam@yahoo.com> wrote in news:7a02aa71-2ec9-432b-
ba28-e41fcb20b245@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 30, 8:41 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
>> haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
>> They just like him.  The other guy is a war hero with an open border
>> policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
>> campaign staff.
>
> Saying Obama has fans that may not know his policies, and saying that
> McCain has an illegal alien working on his campaign staff, says
> nothing of substance -- good or bad -- about either candidate.
> Certainly McCain also has plenty of fans cheering for him that haven't
> a clue what he's up to (does he even?), and I'd bet Obama's got a few
> immigrants without papers working on his staff somewhere too (if just
> cleaning the toilets at the office).
>
> So that diatribe is pointless. Both have spoken plenty about their
> supposed policies -- like any politician up for election, much of it
> is probably bullshit and it should all be taken with a grain of salt
> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.

Very true and well put. Consider for example that McCain, after touting
how different he is from Bush and how often he has "stood up" to Bush,
then goes on to say he will extend the Bush tax-cuts for ever (despite
calling them a disaster in 2003) and will keep our troops in Iraq
virtually forever (despite the Iraqi parliament wanting a concrete
timeline for withdrawal - so much for Sovereignty) and he voted against
his own anti-torture bill in the Senate - not to mention he voted
against his own immigration reform bill as well.

Bottom line: Obama is far from perfect and may not even be very good,
but McCain is an absolute disaster. Bush's fucked up policies put this
country in the toilet and McCain, former maverick who used to oppose
these policies, is now embracing them. That's a flip-flop that could
make Mitt Romney blush.

If nothing else, with Obama the decline into the cesspoll will slow down
a little. With McCain it would only accelerate. It may only be a choice
between drinking spoiled milk that will make you sick and drinking
cyanide that will kill you, but it's a choice.

--
"I would much prefer to [give a speech in a foreign country]
as president of the United States rather than as a candidate
for the office of the presidency."

- John McCain, apparently forgetting that he gave speeches
in Colombia and Mexico just a couple of weeks ago

On Jul 31, 8:47 am, Noah <dontsendmeyers...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 8:41 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
> > haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
> > They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
> > policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
> > campaign staff.
>
> Saying Obama has fans that may not know his policies, and saying that
> McCain has an illegal alien working on his campaign staff, says
> nothing of substance -- good or bad -- about either candidate.

I didn't say McCain has an illegal alien working on his staff. I said
one of his senior advisors is an open border advocate, Juan
Hernandez. HUGE difference. What I said about the Obamamaniacs are
that they don't know what the change is, from what to what. What it
says about the candidates is that people vote without knowledge of
policy. That in and of itself should not be allowed.


> Certainly McCain also has plenty of fans cheering for him that haven't
> a clue what he's up to (does he even?), and I'd bet Obama's got a few
> immigrants without papers working on his staff somewhere too (if just
> cleaning the toilets at the office).

No doubt that is true that. When you have millions, you are going to
find some idiots. But surveys show the supporters of Obama are
undereducated, underinformed, underskilled.


>
> So that diatribe is pointless. Both have spoken plenty about their
> supposed policies -- like any politician up for election, much of it
> is probably bullshit and it should all be taken with a grain of salt
> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.

This was more an indictment of all of us, as citizens than it was on
these two jokers. Neither one of them should be in line to be leader
of the free world, but for the fact that our ignorant, uninformed,
government educated idiots put them up there. That was the point.
Those of us that work and contribute to GDP are fucked because of it.
Get it?

Rizzo

On Jul 31, 9:50 am, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:


As long as Tammy Foster said so, then I guess that's my standard.

"The only thing we have to fear is George W Bush, the Republicans and
any person who does not identify himself as either a liberal or a
progressive...Everyone else should be shot and killed immediately"
theBZA as posted Jan 19, 2006

I guess you are judge and jury.

On Jul 31, 9:54 am, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
It may only be a choice
> between drinking spoiled milk that will make you sick and drinking
> cyanide that will kill you, but it's a choice.
>


I like that analogy. That may be your most accurate post ever, except
I would put one tweak. Choice is Cyanide and Arsenic. Thankfully
this is not a dictatorship and neither of these idiots can rule
absolutely.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT), Frank Rizzo
<champ91917@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jul 31, 8:47 am, Noah <dontsendmeyers...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 30, 8:41 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
>> > haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
>> > They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
>> > policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
>> > campaign staff.
>>
>> Saying Obama has fans that may not know his policies, and saying that
>> McCain has an illegal alien working on his campaign staff, says
>> nothing of substance -- good or bad -- about either candidate.
>
>I didn't say McCain has an illegal alien working on his staff. I said
>one of his senior advisors is an open border advocate, Juan
>Hernandez. HUGE difference. What I said about the Obamamaniacs are
>that they don't know what the change is, from what to what. What it
>says about the candidates is that people vote without knowledge of
>policy. That in and of itself should not be allowed.
>

Well that has been going on far longer than you have been on the
planet and I dont think it will stop when I leave the planet. That
said is an Obamaniac (as you so eloquently put it) the same as a
McCainiac??? I mean is it different than a Clintoniac or any damn
maniac knick fan???

>
>> Certainly McCain also has plenty of fans cheering for him that haven't
>> a clue what he's up to (does he even?), and I'd bet Obama's got a few
>> immigrants without papers working on his staff somewhere too (if just
>> cleaning the toilets at the office).
>
>No doubt that is true that. When you have millions, you are going to
>find some idiots. But surveys show the supporters of Obama are
>undereducated, underinformed, underskilled.
>

First you dont need millions you just need a newsreader.
Second, actually you are wrong with the surveys, they say the actual
opposite. Obama's supporters are the highly educated, highly informed
and highly skilled. Normally the well to do white folks with good jobs
and high education.

>>
>> So that diatribe is pointless. Both have spoken plenty about their
>> supposed policies -- like any politician up for election, much of it
>> is probably bullshit and it should all be taken with a grain of salt
>> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
>> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
>> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.
>
>This was more an indictment of all of us, as citizens than it was on
>these two jokers. Neither one of them should be in line to be leader
>of the free world, but for the fact that our ignorant, uninformed,
>government educated idiots put them up there. That was the point.
>Those of us that work and contribute to GDP are fucked because of it.
>Get it?
>

We have always been fucked as you put it. I get it, do you???

>Rizzo

sv0f wrote:
> I'm a legal dumbass, so someone explain this to me: What exactly did
> Donaghy do wrong? There's a private concern -- the NBA. It has some
> empoyees, including Donaghy.

According to the indictment he defrauded the NBA by taking 30K to pass
confidential information to bookies and people placing bets. And broke
federal laws in the process. He pleaded guilty to "conspiracy to engage in
wire fraud and transmitting wagering information through interstate
commerce".



=============

What he pleaded guilty to...The Wire Act was intended to assist the states,
territories and possessions of the United States, as well as the District of
Columbia, in enforcing their respective laws on gambling and bookmaking and
to suppress organized gambling activities.[58] Subsection (a) of the Wire
Act, a criminal provision, provides:

Whoever being engaged in the business of betting or wagering knowingly
uses a wire communication facility for the transmission in interstate or
foreign commerce of bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing
of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest, or for the transmission
of a wire communication which entitles the recipient to receive money or
credit as a result of bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the
placing of bets or wagers, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than two years, or both.[59]
In order to prove a prima facie case, the government must establish that:

1.. The person was "engaged in the business of betting or wagering"
2.. (compared with a casual bettor);
3.. The person transmitted in interstate or foreign commerce:
1.. bets or wagers,
2.. information assisting in the placement of bets or wagers, or
3.. a communication that entitled the recipient to receive money or
credit as a result of a bet or wager;
4.. The person used a " wire communication facility;" and
5.. The person knowingly used a wire communication facility to engage in
one of the three prohibited forms of transmissions.
In analyzing the first element, the legislative history[60] of the Wire Act
seems to support the position that casual bettors would fall outside of the
prosecutorial reach of the statute. During the House of Representatives
debate on the bill, Congressman Emanuel Celler, Chairman of the House
Judiciary Committee stated "[t]his bill only gets after the bookmaker, the
gambler who makes it his business to take bets or to lay off bets. . . It
does not go after the causal gambler who bets $2 on a race. That type of
transaction is not within the purvue of the statute."[61] In Baborian, the
federal district court concluded that Congress did not intend to include
social bettors within the umbrella of the statute, even those bettors that
bet large sums of money and show a certain degree of sophistication.[62]
=========================

> He behaved in a way that violated his
> contract. What more is there to do than to fire him? The whole
> gambling business -- the NBA stays clear of an official stake for good
> reasons.

The business of gambling on sporting events in most states is illegal by
federal law even if the casual gambling is not.
The betting was not done in Nevada casinos.

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/sports-protection.htm

As a result, Congress found that "sports gambling is a national problem. The
harms it inflicts are felt beyond the borders of those States that sanction
it." [183] Moreover, the Senate Judiciary Committee agreed with the
testimony of "David Stern, commissioner for the National Basketball
Association, that '[t]he interstate ramifications of sports betting are a
compelling reason for federal legislation.'" [184] In light of these
findings, it appears that Congress exercised its authority under the
Commerce Clause [185] to enact the Professional and Amateur Sports
Protection Act (PASPA) in 1992
Specifically, PASPA makes it unlawful for:
(1) a government entity [187] to sponsor, operate, advertise, promote,
license, or authorize by law or compact, or
(2) a person to sponsor, operate, advertise, promote, pursuant to the law
or compact of a government entity, a lottery, sweepstakes, or other betting,
gambling, or wagering scheme based, directly or indirectly (through the use
of geographical references or otherwise), on one or more competitive games
in which amateur or professional athletes participate, or are intended to
participate, or on one or more performances of such athletes in such games.
[188]

As of Mar. 5, 2007,the only states grandfathered from the PASPA: Delaware,
Montana, Nevada and Oregon.

>Donaghy's actions may have affected that business, but it's
> not like the sports books lost money -- they move the line so that
> there's equal money on both sides and they make their's regardless.

How about the legal betters that lost?
How about if Donaghy's friends made bets with illicit bookmakers who then
may have balanced their positions by placing bets at legitimate sports
books?

Article on the ban on internet gambling:
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/internet-gambling-ban.htm

theBZA wrote:
> Noah <dontsendmeyerspam@yahoo.com> wrote in news:7a02aa71-2ec9-432b-

>> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
>> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
>> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.
>
> Very true and well put. Consider for example that McCain, after
> touting how different he is from Bush and how often he has "stood up"
> to Bush, then goes on to say he will extend the Bush tax-cuts for
> ever (despite calling them a disaster in 2003) and will keep our
> troops in Iraq virtually forever (despite the Iraqi parliament
> wanting a concrete timeline for withdrawal - so much for Sovereignty)
> and he voted against his own anti-torture bill in the Senate - not to
> mention he voted against his own immigration reform bill as well.


McCain introducded a bill to get sports gambling made illegal in Nevada...

--
Laurel T
"The real victims of Fox News weren't the liberals it attacked,
but the conservatives who believed it....."
Nickolas D. Kristof

On Jul 31, 4:29 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I didn't say McCain has an illegal alien working on his staff.  I said
> one of his senior advisors is an open border advocate, Juan
> Hernandez.  HUGE difference. What I said about the Obamamaniacs are
> that they don't know what the change is, from what to what.    What it
> says about the candidates is that people vote without knowledge of
> policy.  That in and of itself should not be allowed.

True, but it happens every single election on both sides of the fence.

> No doubt that is true that.  When you have millions, you are going to
> find some idiots.  But surveys show the supporters of Obama are
> undereducated, underinformed, underskilled.

Oh, nonsense, unless you're calling every Democrat in the country
undereducated, underinformed, and underskilled. Actually it was the
opposite during the Democratic run off -- the blue collar workers and
undereducated voted for Hillary (at least by the polls) and the white
collar crowd and college-educated set were backing Obama. Where you
get that statement I have no idea, but I suspect it's free of any real
world fact support.

Most of the McCain supporters' case is that he'll make a good
president because he was a prisoner of war. Huh? So he was tied up,
tortured, and made to be miserable for years on end. Now, that's a
pretty good case for someone who might not be all that mentally
stable, sure. Someone who has a fucked up view of the world, okay,
I'll buy that. Someone who's suffered in the name of their country?
Yeah, sure, that's pretty unarguable (unless you want to argue whether
or not the war he was a prisoner in was really for the good of the
country, but that's a whole nother ball of wax). Someone who has an
uneven and non-objective view of war, yes, ok. But someone who will
make a good *president*...huh? I'm not sure how one thing has
ANYTHING to do with the other.

Right now the country is going through an economic crisis and the guy
has already admitted economics are not exactly his strong suit, and
that he wants to continue the war that's largely helped to put the
economy in the shitter. And they want to make this guy the
president? Really? That's the best the Republicans could do?

> This was more an indictment of all of us, as citizens than it was on
> these two jokers.

And how is this different from any other election year? Every year
since I can remember it's been two jokers. One red, one blue. Every
eight years or so the pendulum swings from one side to the other, and
all the monkeys and the sheep look on as if something really
interesting or different is happening.

> Neither one of them should be in line to be leader
> of the free world, but for the fact that our ignorant, uninformed,
> government educated idiots put them up there.

It's far more complicated than that simplistic view.


 

"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote in news:6fen0rFb782gU1
@mid.individual.net:

> theBZA wrote:
>> Noah <dontsendmeyerspam@yahoo.com> wrote in news:7a02aa71-2ec9-432b-
>
>>> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
>>> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
>>> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.
>>
>> Very true and well put. Consider for example that McCain, after
>> touting how different he is from Bush and how often he has "stood up"
>> to Bush, then goes on to say he will extend the Bush tax-cuts for
>> ever (despite calling them a disaster in 2003) and will keep our
>> troops in Iraq virtually forever (despite the Iraqi parliament
>> wanting a concrete timeline for withdrawal - so much for Sovereignty)
>> and he voted against his own anti-torture bill in the Senate - not to
>> mention he voted against his own immigration reform bill as well.
>
>
> McCain introducded a bill to get sports gambling made illegal in Nevada...
>

I believe that was NCAA sports...

Frank Rizzo <champ91917@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a0363db1-ee29-4eec-894e-
28fba3677754@v8g2000prm.googlegroups.com:

> But surveys show the supporters of Obama are
> undereducated, underinformed, underskilled.
>

cite please...

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Jul 31, 9:54 am, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It may only be a choice
>> between drinking spoiled milk that will make you sick and drinking
>> cyanide that will kill you, but it's a choice.
>>
>
>
> I like that analogy. That may be your most accurate post ever, except
> I would put one tweak. Choice is Cyanide and Arsenic.

You can live with arsenic...it even makes you look good in small doses... it
is used for disease prevention and growth stimulation in animal feeds and
for treating cancer.... arsenic-74 is better than Iodine in PET scans. One
type is used in integrated circuits. It is patriotically used in 4th of
July fireworks and provides beauty in bronzing... lots of good stuff if you
do not overdose...which draws the conclusion on the candidates...choose
arsenic enjoy the benefits... just do not overdose.


--
Laurel T
Every gun that is made, every warship launched,
every rocket fired signifies in the final sense,
a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers,
the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
This is not a way of life at all in any true sense.
Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
-- Dwight Eisenhower, April 16, 1953

On Jul 31, 1:39 pm, Syfo-Dyas <Syfo-D...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT), Frank Rizzo
>
>
>
> <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 31, 8:47 am, Noah <dontsendmeyers...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 30, 8:41 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
> >> > haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
> >> > They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
> >> > policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
> >> > campaign staff.
>
> >> Saying Obama has fans that may not know his policies, and saying that
> >> McCain has an illegal alien working on his campaign staff, says
> >> nothing of substance -- good or bad -- about either candidate.
>
> >I didn't say McCain has an illegal alien working on his staff. I said
> >one of his senior advisors is an open border advocate, Juan
> >Hernandez. HUGE difference. What I said about the Obamamaniacs are
> >that they don't know what the change is, from what to what. What it
> >says about the candidates is that people vote without knowledge of
> >policy. That in and of itself should not be allowed.
>
> Well that has been going on far longer than you have been on the
> planet and I dont think it will stop when I leave the planet. That
> said is an Obamaniac (as you so eloquently put it) the same as a
> McCainiac??? I mean is it different than a Clintoniac or any damn
> maniac knick fan???
>
>
>
> >> Certainly McCain also has plenty of fans cheering for him that haven't
> >> a clue what he's up to (does he even?), and I'd bet Obama's got a few
> >> immigrants without papers working on his staff somewhere too (if just
> >> cleaning the toilets at the office).
>
> >No doubt that is true that. When you have millions, you are going to
> >find some idiots. But surveys show the supporters of Obama are
> >undereducated, underinformed, underskilled.
>
> First you dont need millions you just need a newsreader.
> Second, actually you are wrong with the surveys, they say the actual
> opposite. Obama's supporters are the highly educated, highly informed
> and highly skilled. Normally the well to do white folks with good jobs
> and high education.
>
>
>
> >> So that diatribe is pointless. Both have spoken plenty about their
> >> supposed policies -- like any politician up for election, much of it
> >> is probably bullshit and it should all be taken with a grain of salt
> >> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
> >> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
> >> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.
>
> >This was more an indictment of all of us, as citizens than it was on
> >these two jokers. Neither one of them should be in line to be leader
> >of the free world, but for the fact that our ignorant, uninformed,
> >government educated idiots put them up there. That was the point.
> >Those of us that work and contribute to GDP are fucked because of it.
> >Get it?
>
> We have always been fucked as you put it. I get it, do you???
>
> >Rizzo

Not always. You weren't an econ major obviously. Nor were you a poli
sci major or minor.

On Jul 31, 1:39 pm, Syfo-Dyas <Syfo-D...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT), Frank Rizzo
>
>
>
> <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 31, 8:47 am, Noah <dontsendmeyers...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 30, 8:41 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Obama is the Messiah to all the obamaniacs who
> >> > haven't a clue as to what he stands for or what he means by "change".
> >> > They just like him. The other guy is a war hero with an open border
> >> > policy who has an illegal alien advocate as a senior advisor on his
> >> > campaign staff.
>
> >> Saying Obama has fans that may not know his policies, and saying that
> >> McCain has an illegal alien working on his campaign staff, says
> >> nothing of substance -- good or bad -- about either candidate.
>
> >I didn't say McCain has an illegal alien working on his staff. I said
> >one of his senior advisors is an open border advocate, Juan
> >Hernandez. HUGE difference. What I said about the Obamamaniacs are
> >that they don't know what the change is, from what to what. What it
> >says about the candidates is that people vote without knowledge of
> >policy. That in and of itself should not be allowed.
>
> Well that has been going on far longer than you have been on the
> planet and I dont think it will stop when I leave the planet. That
> said is an Obamaniac (as you so eloquently put it) the same as a
> McCainiac??? I mean is it different than a Clintoniac or any damn
> maniac knick fan???

I don't know any McCainiacs. I know some people who are going to vote
for him as a defensive maneuver. Obama has the charisma and charm to
create Obama-mania. McCain doesn't have that. Bill Clinton had it,
as did Reagan. Neither Bush had it, nor did Carter or Ford or Nixon
before him. Kennedy had it.

Knick fans are the most knowledgeble in the NBA and I will not
disparage Knick fan.


>
>
>
> >> Certainly McCain also has plenty of fans cheering for him that haven't
> >> a clue what he's up to (does he even?), and I'd bet Obama's got a few
> >> immigrants without papers working on his staff somewhere too (if just
> >> cleaning the toilets at the office).
>
> >No doubt that is true that. When you have millions, you are going to
> >find some idiots. But surveys show the supporters of Obama are
> >undereducated, underinformed, underskilled.
>
> First you dont need millions you just need a newsreader.
> Second, actually you are wrong with the surveys, they say the actual
> opposite. Obama's supporters are the highly educated, highly informed
> and highly skilled. Normally the well to do white folks with good jobs
> and high education.
>

Bullshit.

>
>
> >> So that diatribe is pointless. Both have spoken plenty about their
> >> supposed policies -- like any politician up for election, much of it
> >> is probably bullshit and it should all be taken with a grain of salt
> >> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
> >> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
> >> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.
>
> >This was more an indictment of all of us, as citizens than it was on
> >these two jokers. Neither one of them should be in line to be leader
> >of the free world, but for the fact that our ignorant, uninformed,
> >government educated idiots put them up there. That was the point.
> >Those of us that work and contribute to GDP are fucked because of it.
> >Get it?
>
> We have always been fucked as you put it. I get it, do you???
>
> >Rizzo

On Jul 31, 1:52 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> theBZA wrote:
> > Noah <dontsendmeyers...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:7a02aa71-2ec9-432b-
> >> -- but there's been enough left on the table (pointedly or
> >> inadvertently) to get a sense of the quality of the focus of each
> >> candidate, and the probable direction they'd go in.
>
> > Very true and well put. Consider for example that McCain, after
> > touting how different he is from Bush and how often he has "stood up"
> > to Bush, then goes on to say he will extend the Bush tax-cuts for
> > ever (despite calling them a disaster in 2003) and will keep our
> > troops in Iraq virtually forever (despite the Iraqi parliament
> > wanting a concrete timeline for withdrawal - so much for Sovereignty)
> > and he voted against his own anti-torture bill in the Senate - not to
> > mention he voted against his own immigration reform bill as well.
>
> McCain introducded a bill to get sports gambling made illegal in Nevada...
>
> --

What a jackass. Nothing like the long arm of the government trying to
fix what aint broke...

On Jul 31, 1:56 pm, Noah <dontsendmeyers...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 31, 4:29 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I didn't say McCain has an illegal alien working on his staff. I said
> > one of his senior advisors is an open border advocate, Juan
> > Hernandez. HUGE difference. What I said about the Obamamaniacs are
> > that they don't know what the change is, from what to what. What it
> > says about the candidates is that people vote without knowledge of
> > policy. That in and of itself should not be allowed.
>
> True, but it happens every single election on both sides of the fence.
>
> > No doubt that is true that. When you have millions, you are going to
> > find some idiots. But surveys show the supporters of Obama are
> > undereducated, underinformed, underskilled.
>
> Oh, nonsense, unless you're calling every Democrat in the country
> undereducated, underinformed, and underskilled. Actually it was the
> opposite during the Democratic run off -- the blue collar workers and
> undereducated voted for Hillary (at least by the polls) and the white
> collar crowd and college-educated set were backing Obama. Where you
> get that statement I have no idea, but I suspect it's free of any real
> world fact support.

You're right about the post graduate degree folks. The folks with
High School diplomas or less support Obama.


>
> Most of the McCain supporters' case is that he'll make a good
> president because he was a prisoner of war. Huh? So he was tied up,
> tortured, and made to be miserable for years on end. Now, that's a
> pretty good case for someone who might not be all that mentally
> stable, sure. Someone who has a fucked up view of the world, okay,
> I'll buy that. Someone who's suffered in the name of their country?
> Yeah, sure, that's pretty unarguable (unless you want to argue whether
> or not the war he was a prisoner in was really for the good of the
> country, but that's a whole nother ball of wax). Someone who has an
> uneven and non-objective view of war, yes, ok. But someone who will
> make a good *president*...huh? I'm not sure how one thing has
> ANYTHING to do with the other.

I don't think anyone has advanced the POW = good president argument.
Haven't seen that one at all. I've seen the military officer and
volunteerism as an argument, and POW as example of patriotism. Not
saying that's a great criteria at all. Just saying I haven't heard
anyone say "Dayum, he was a fukkin PEE oh dubya so he's a gonna make a
damn good prezident"......OTOH I have seen street interviews "why are
you for Obama"...."because he's gonna make changes"...."from what to
what" UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh, that's the scary
part.

I'm just saying that the people who elect the POTUS should have a
clue and the vast majority do not. They just vote for the better
looking or more charismatic guy, historically about 90% of the time
(since TV) and now we're 6 Trillion in the red. Great...

>
> Right now the country is going through an economic crisis and the guy
> has already admitted economics are not exactly his strong suit, and
> that he wants to continue the war that's largely helped to put the
> economy in the shitter. And they want to make this guy the
> president? Really? That's the best the Republicans could do?

The Republicans are off their freakin rocker. They had a couple of
good candidates and the party wouldn't get behind them.

>
> > This was more an indictment of all of us, as citizens than it was on
> > these two jokers.
>
> And how is this different from any other election year?

It's not, except now we are teetering on the brink and it's more
critical than ever. You'd think some MFers would pay attention.

Every year
> since I can remember it's been two jokers. One red, one blue. Every
> eight years or so the pendulum swings from one side to the other, and
> all the monkeys and the sheep look on as if something really
> interesting or different is happening.

That's a great point and mostly true. Reagan was pretty good. WJC
had some good qualities but he left our flank uncovered and spent two
years spending time on a scandal that the SCOTUS never should have
allowed to happen. There were a few good candidates and potential
candidates along the way but their party didn't support them (Hart,
Bradley, Tsongas, Forbes, Romney, Gingrich). Outside the box guys,
smarter than the rest, but they either weren't good looking enough
(Newt, Forbes, Bradley, Tsongas) or the party went for the good ol boy
and screwed the good guy (Hart and Bradley)....... And the shallow
sheep bought in to what they were spoon fed by the media (Gingrich is
Evil, Hart had a GF, etc etc.)


>
> > Neither one of them should be in line to be leader
> > of the free world, but for the fact that our ignorant, uninformed,
> > government educated idiots put them up there.
>
> It's far more complicated than that simplistic view.
>

Actually, it isn't. That's the whole ball of wax right there.

Can Isiah Lord Thomas III ever become the Prez?

DG

On Jul 31, 5:47 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You're right about the post graduate degree folks.  The folks with
> High School diplomas or less support Obama.

There's really no purpose here for childlish, factless, pointless mud-
slinging. If you just want to make yourself feel better, there are
probably more appropriate ways with the internet in front of you.

> I don't think anyone has advanced the POW = good president argument.

Advanced it? No, because there's nowhere for it to advance TO. But
his POW status is among the first three things anyone says about him
whenever anyone is asked why he would make a good president. Why?

> Haven't seen that one at all.  I've seen  the military officer and
> volunteerism as an argument, and POW as example of patriotism. Not
> saying that's a great criteria at all.  Just saying I haven't heard
> anyone say "Dayum, he was a fukkin PEE oh dubya so he's a gonna make a
> damn good prezident"......OTOH I have seen street interviews "why are
> you for Obama"...."because he's gonna make changes"...."from what to
> what"  UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh,    that's the scary
> part.

He's detailed pretty thoroughly that he wants to stop the war overseas
and focus on domestic rebuilding, stop the outsourcing of jobs and
industry that have been so prevalent under Bush and try to create
incentives for corporations to do business at home. So, to answer
your question, it's change from borrowing resources and money and
imports from other countries and then trying to kick their ass when
they ask for it to be paid back, to starting to take care of our own
here at home. Now, whether he has any chance to succeed at that, and
how vigorously he'll pursue it once in office -- that's another
matter. But arguing that he hasn't detailed what he wants to change
from or to is inaccurate.

> I'm just saying that the people who elect the POTUS should have  a
> clue and the vast majority do not.

No sense in preaching to the converted on that one. I'm sure no one
disagrees there, on either side of the fence.

>  They just vote for the better
> looking or more charismatic guy, historically about 90% of the time
> (since TV) and now we're 6 Trillion in the red.  Great...

I wonder if they ever did anything different. Kinda doubt it.

> > And how is this different from any other election year?
>
> It's not, except now we are teetering on the brink and it's more
> critical than ever. You'd think some MFers would pay attention.

All empires fall. Realistically speaking, we're just going to be
living the way most other countries have been for many years now --
gas will be expensive, richer countries will exploit us for labor and
resources and goods, we won't have the benefit of free trade, our
exchange rate will be terrible, we'll be in debt with no forseeable
relief, etc etc. It's probably our karmic justice. ;7 It could
theoretically be avoided, but not unless people get off their asses --
and there's absolutely zero evidence of that.

> That's  a great point and mostly true.  Reagan was pretty good.  WJC
> had some good qualities but he left our flank uncovered and spent two
> years spending time on a scandal that the SCOTUS never should have
> allowed to happen.

Yeah, but those two laid plenty of the groundwork for what's happening
now. It was the same investment in bubbles, outsourcing for greater
profits, warmongering and general fiscal irresponsibility. Then it
was eat now, pay later. Now it's later.

> > It's far more complicated than that simplistic view.
>
> Actually, it isn't.  That's the whole ball of wax right there.

Like most things, it's just controlled by money and those who spend it
for their interests. But that gets complicated with the sheer number
of those spending.

On Jul 31, 3:13 pm, Dan Gaters <dan.gat...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Can Isiah Lord Thomas III ever become the Prez?
>
> DG

Dan,

I think Isiah IS president because someone wrote a $300 Billion check
yesterday at taxpayer expense.

Rizzo

On Jul 31, 3:36 pm, Noah <dontsendmeyers...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 31, 5:47 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > You're right about the post graduate degree folks. The folks with
> > High School diplomas or less support Obama.
>
> There's really no purpose here for childlish, factless, pointless mud-
> slinging. If you just want to make yourself feel better, there are
> probably more appropriate ways with the internet in front of you.

How is it factless and childish? Why do you think they take such
polls if it is pointless? Check Gallup if you don't believe me.

>
> > I don't think anyone has advanced the POW = good president argument.
>
> Advanced it? No, because there's nowhere for it to advance TO. But
> his POW status is among the first three things anyone says about him
> whenever anyone is asked why he would make a good president. Why?
>
> > Haven't seen that one at all. I've seen the military officer and
> > volunteerism as an argument, and POW as example of patriotism. Not
> > saying that's a great criteria at all. Just saying I haven't heard
> > anyone say "Dayum, he was a fukkin PEE oh dubya so he's a gonna make a
> > damn good prezident"......OTOH I have seen street interviews "why are
> > you for Obama"...."because he's gonna make changes"...."from what to
> > what" UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh, that's the scary
> > part.
>
> He's detailed pretty thoroughly that he wants to stop the war overseas
> and focus on domestic rebuilding, stop the outsourcing of jobs and
> industry that have been so prevalent under Bush and try to create
> incentives for corporations to do business at home. So, to answer
> your question, it's change from borrowing resources and money and
> imports from other countries and then trying to kick their ass when
> they ask for it to be paid back, to starting to take care of our own
> here at home. Now, whether he has any chance to succeed at that, and
> how vigorously he'll pursue it once in office -- that's another
> matter. But arguing that he hasn't detailed what he wants to change
> from or to is inaccurate.

I didn't say that he didn't detail his plans. Read what I said
please. I said most of his follwers are clueless about what he is
changing. Obviously I touched an obamanerve with you. Don't be so
sensitive.

>
> > I'm just saying that the people who elect the POTUS should have a
> > clue and the vast majority do not.
>
> No sense in preaching to the converted on that one. I'm sure no one
> disagrees there, on either side of the fence.

Do you agree that you should have to be qualified to vote? I'm not
even sure our electorate should be voting for POTUS.

>
> > They just vote for the better
> > looking or more charismatic guy, historically about 90% of the time
> > (since TV) and now we're 6 Trillion in the red. Great...
>
> I wonder if they ever did anything different. Kinda doubt it.

Lincoln? Nixon? Wilson?


>
> > > And how is this different from any other election year?
>
> > It's not, except now we are teetering on the brink and it's more
> > critical than ever. You'd think some MFers would pay attention.
>
> All empires fall. Realistically speaking, we're just going to be
> living the way most other countries have been for many years now --
> gas will be expensive, richer countries will exploit us for labor and
> resources and goods, we won't have the benefit of free trade, our
> exchange rate will be terrible, we'll be in debt with no forseeable
> relief, etc etc. It's probably our karmic justice. ;7

You were correct until the part about karma.

It could
> theoretically be avoided, but not unless people get off their asses --
> and there's absolutely zero evidence of that.

Agreed....Not without a revolution.

>
> > That's a great point and mostly true. Reagan was pretty good. WJC
> > had some good qualities but he left our flank uncovered and spent two
> > years spending time on a scandal that the SCOTUS never should have
> > allowed to happen.
>
> Yeah, but those two laid plenty of the groundwork for what's happening
> now. It was the same investment in bubbles, outsourcing for greater
> profits, warmongering and general fiscal irresponsibility. Then it
> was eat now, pay later. Now it's later.

Neither were "war mongers"....

>
> > > It's far more complicated than that simplistic view.
>
> > Actually, it isn't. That's the whole ball of wax right there.
>
> Like most things, it's just controlled by money and those who spend it
> for their interests. But that gets complicated with the sheer number
> of those spending.

Agreed on that. However most of the money guys are acting like idiots
too.

On Jul 31, 6:55 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > You're right about the post graduate degree folks.  The folks with
> > > High School diplomas or less support Obama.
>
> > There's really no purpose here for childlish, factless, pointless mud-
> > slinging.  If you just want to make yourself feel better, there are
> > probably more appropriate ways with the internet in front of you.
>
> How is it factless and childish?  Why do you think they take such
> polls if it is pointless?  Check Gallup if you don't believe me.

If you really are trying to make a legitimate claim that all of those
supporting Obama in the election don't have a degree or are otherwise
uneducated (!), then back it up with some evidence. Regardless of
where you stand on politics, it's a ludicrous claim. Simple
mathematics does it in. Saying, "Everyone who backs Obama is an
uneducated idiot, check Gallup if you don't believe me" doesn't really
sell or support your silly attempt at a point to anyone and is obvious
biased conjecture. And I'm quite certain that doesn't really need
explaining to you.

> I didn't say that he didn't detail his plans.  Read what I said
> please.

You said that it wasn't being made clear to people what the change was
that was going to happen -- "from what to what". I disagreed and
showed you that it was being made clear to people. If people don't
get it, they don't get it. What else is new?

> I said most of his follwers are clueless about what he is
> changing.

Followers on both sides of the fence are largely clueless -- about
what is happening n