Is Bud on the hot seat or are the AAA beaver team tryouts giving him a pass?

I for one enjoy watching the young team play with a little more hitting in the
lineup than the early year "veteran" roster which totally sucked offensively,
but I still find Bud completely boring and unimaginative as a manager.
At times his decisions are downright befuddling.

I don't think ownership gives a shit and plays moneyball
with the coaches just much as the players.

ScottW

> Is Bud on the hot seat or are the AAA beaver team tryouts giving him a
> pass?

I can't picture this organization paying two managers for two years. If
we're still in the same position a year from today, he's probably on the hot
seat. But not now.

"badlands420" <bung@hole.com> wrote in message
news:96Qhk.5098$8R1.4329@newsfe03.iad...
>> Is Bud on the hot seat or are the AAA beaver team tryouts giving him a pass?
>
> I can't picture this organization paying two managers for two years. If we're
> still in the same position a year from today, he's probably on the hot seat.
> But not now.

Well....he's on my hotseat. I haven't seen this guy make a move that
I thought was really smart and damned few pay off in any way.

I still don't like walking the bases loaded. I sure as hell won't do
it with a tie score in the bottom of the 9th and 1 out with a man on
first. I don't care how good a batter is, you load the bases and let
a batter know a walk wins the game, that guy is gonna see some
hittable pitches.

Most of the moves the guys in the booth are calling before he
make's 'em. Let Matt manage from the booth and save the
$$ for a stick.

ScottW

On Jul 23, 5:34 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> > Is Bud on the hot seat or are the AAA beaver team tryouts giving him a
> > pass?
>
> I can't picture this organization paying two managers for two years. If
> we're still in the same position a year from today, he's probably on the hot
> seat. But not now.

You're probably right. Also, the part of the moneyball philosophy is
that managers aren't all that important. It would be kind of
disingenous of them to say that the manager doesn't matter when things
are going well, and then turn around and blame the manager when things
aren't going well.

Even though Black probably isn't going anywhere, it might be fun to
throw around some names of possible replacements. Tim Flannery? I
think he'd be a popular choice with the fans, though I'm not sure what
kind of manager he'd be. After nice guy Bochy, and Bochy clone Black,
I'd like to see them bring somebody in who's more of a hardass.
Flannery has the laid back surfer boy image off the field, but he was
anything but laid back as a player.

If we want somebody who we know would be more of a tyrant, how about
Larry Bowa? His first stint here was a failure, but maybe he's
learned some things in the last twenty years.

On Jul 23, 11:47 pm, Seapig <sea...@altavista.com> wrote:
> On Jul 23, 5:34 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>
> > > Is Bud on the hot seat or are the AAA beaver team tryouts giving him a
> > > pass?
>
> > I can't picture this organization paying two managers for two years. If
> > we're still in the same position a year from today, he's probably on the hot
> > seat. But not now.
>
> You're probably right.  Also, the part of the moneyball philosophy is
> that managers aren't all that important.  It would be kind of
> disingenous of them to say that the manager doesn't matter when things
> are going well, and then turn around and blame the manager when things
> aren't going well.
>
> Even though Black probably isn't going anywhere, it might be fun to
> throw around some names of possible replacements.  Tim Flannery?  I
> think he'd be a popular choice with the fans, though I'm not sure what
> kind of manager he'd be.  After nice guy Bochy, and Bochy clone Black,
> I'd like to see them bring somebody in who's more of a hardass.
> Flannery has the laid back surfer boy image off the field, but he was
> anything but laid back as a player.



Flan's not laid back when he's coach. That's why he got fired from 3rd
base coach a few years ago.

On Jul 23, 12:57 pm, "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think ownership gives a shit and plays moneyball
> with the coaches just much as the players.
>
> ScottW

This is the most accurate statement about the current Padre
organization, period. John Moores does not appear to give a shit about
this team anymore. And why should he? He got his ballpark, along with
all that prime downtown property, courtesy of the city. We made him a
very rich man.We have a roster that's top heavy with triple A players
who cannot cut it in the bigs, players who get exposed on the waiver
wire when they get sent down, and none get claimed. Players who look
like they don't give a shit, so no other teams give a shit. Moneyball
coaches? I don't know why we have Glenn Hoffman, other than he is
Trevor's brother. Whatever he is getting paid is too much. There are
times when it looks like he doesnt give a shit out there. How much
longer will the fans give a shit? The dollar hotdogs and cokes will
keep some fannies in the seats, but they better extend it beyond July.
When football season starts, attention to this "I don't give a shit"
brand of baseball is going to go down the drain. God forbid the
Chargers leave San Diego, and leaves the John Moores Padres as the
only act in town. You think he doesnt give a shit now? Wait till he
has no competition for your sports dollar. He really wont give a shit
if that happens. Unless he loses ownership of the Padres in his
divorce case, that is. It's a good bet the divorce is why John Moores
doesnt give a shit anymore. How many times I can use "don't give a
shit" in a post? Hey, it's some of the worst baseball I've seen in 40
years as a Padre fan, so I don't give a shit.

On Jul 24, 10:56 am, "Kurgan Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Jul 23, 11:47 pm, Seapig <sea...@altavista.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 5:34 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Is Bud on the hot seat or are the AAA beaver team tryouts giving him a
> > > > pass?
>
> > > I can't picture this organization paying two managers for two years. If
> > > we're still in the same position a year from today, he's probably on the hot
> > > seat. But not now.
>
> > You're probably right.  Also, the part of the moneyball philosophy is
> > that managers aren't all that important.  It would be kind of
> > disingenous of them to say that the manager doesn't matter when things
> > are going well, and then turn around and blame the manager when things
> > aren't going well.
>
> > Even though Black probably isn't going anywhere, it might be fun to
> > throw around some names of possible replacements.  Tim Flannery?  I
> > think he'd be a popular choice with the fans, though I'm not sure what
> > kind of manager he'd be.  After nice guy Bochy, and Bochy clone Black,
> > I'd like to see them bring somebody in who's more of a hardass.
> > Flannery has the laid back surfer boy image off the field, but he was
> > anything but laid back as a player.
>
> Flan's not laid back when he's coach. That's why he got fired from 3rd
> base coach a few years ago.

We need to go get Wally Backman from the Joliet Jackhamers. He is a
proven manager and knows how to win. AZ screwed the guy. He would be
great in the division, especially when we play the DBacks.

Dano

On Jul 24, 11:46 am, Padredog <padredo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey, it's some of the worst baseball I've seen in 40
> years as a Padre fan, so I don't give a shit.

I give a shit. I really do...give a shit.

> He got his ballpark, along with
all that prime downtown property, courtesy of the city.

You are aware that ownership of the ballpark reverts to the city after 20
years, aren't you?

>We made him a
very rich man.

We did? Last time I checked, dude was already a billionaire before they
broke ground on Petco.

> Even though Black probably isn't going anywhere, it might be fun to
throw around some names of possible replacements.

If it was a situation where they needed to rejuvenate interest in the club
and get asses back in the seats, I imagine Tony Gwynn would be the only name
on the short list.

On Jul 24, 7:41 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> > He got his ballpark, along with
>
> all that prime downtown property, courtesy of the city.
>
> You are aware that ownership of the ballpark reverts to the city after 20
> years, aren't you?



He's talking about all the condo property around the ballpark that
they eminent-domain-ed.

On Jul 24, 11:46 am, Padredog <padredo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 23, 12:57 pm, "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't think ownership gives a shit and plays moneyball
> > with the coaches just much as the players.
>
> > ScottW
>
> This is the most accurate statement about the current Padre
> organization, period. John Moores does not appear to give a shit about
> this team anymore. And why should he? He got his ballpark, along with
> all that prime downtown property, courtesy of the city. We made him a
> very rich man.We have a roster that's top heavy with triple A players
> who cannot cut it in the bigs, players who get exposed on the waiver
> wire when they get sent down, and none get claimed. Players who look
> like they don't give a shit, so no other teams give a shit. Moneyball
> coaches? I don't know why we have Glenn Hoffman, other than he is
> Trevor's brother. Whatever he is getting paid is too much. There are
> times when it looks like he doesnt give a shit out there. How much
> longer will the fans give a shit? The dollar hotdogs and cokes will
> keep some fannies in the seats, but they better extend it beyond July.
> When football season starts, attention to this "I don't give a shit"
> brand of baseball is going to go down the drain. God forbid the
> Chargers leave San Diego, and leaves the John Moores Padres as the
> only act in town. You think he doesnt give a shit now? Wait till he
> has no competition for your sports dollar. He really wont give a shit
> if that happens. Unless he loses ownership of the Padres in his
> divorce case, that is. It's a good bet the divorce is why John Moores
> doesnt give a shit anymore. How many times I can use "don't give a
> shit" in a post? Hey, it's some of the worst baseball I've seen in 40
> years as a Padre fan, so I don't give a shit.




Tell it like it is brother!

On Jul 24, 7:58 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> > Even though Black probably isn't going anywhere, it might be fun to
>
> throw around some names of possible replacements.
>
> If it was a situation where they needed to rejuvenate interest in the club
> and get asses back in the seats, I imagine Tony Gwynn would be the only name
> on the short list.

Hiring Gwynn would accomplish the goals you mentioned, but I'm not
sure it would be a good move from a purely baseball standpoint. Great
players have rarely made great managers, and Tony's teams at State
haven't exactly set the world on fire. It could also set up a
difficult situation down the road, if things didn't work out. Nobody
wants to have to fire Mr. Padre.

On Jul 24, 11:50 am, Dano <dcashm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 10:56 am, "Kurgan Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 11:47 pm, Seapig <sea...@altavista.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 23, 5:34 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Is Bud on the hot seat or are the AAA beaver team tryouts giving him a
> > > > > pass?
>
> > > > I can't picture this organization paying two managers for two years.. If
> > > > we're still in the same position a year from today, he's probably on the hot
> > > > seat. But not now.
>
> > > You're probably right.  Also, the part of the moneyball philosophy is
> > > that managers aren't all that important.  It would be kind of
> > > disingenous of them to say that the manager doesn't matter when things
> > > are going well, and then turn around and blame the manager when things
> > > aren't going well.
>
> > > Even though Black probably isn't going anywhere, it might be fun to
> > > throw around some names of possible replacements.  Tim Flannery?  I
> > > think he'd be a popular choice with the fans, though I'm not sure what
> > > kind of manager he'd be.  After nice guy Bochy, and Bochy clone Black,
> > > I'd like to see them bring somebody in who's more of a hardass.
> > > Flannery has the laid back surfer boy image off the field, but he was
> > > anything but laid back as a player.
>
> > Flan's not laid back when he's coach. That's why he got fired from 3rd
> > base coach a few years ago.
>
> We need to go get Wally Backman from the Joliet Jackhamers.  He is a
> proven manager and knows how to win.  AZ screwed the guy.  He would be
> great in the division, especially when we play the DBacks.
>
> Dano- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That's not a name I was expecting to hear - he's been off my radar
since his brief stint with the Snakes. I would guess that the issues
that caused them to dump him might also be of concern to the Padres.
Are you in a position where you know more about Backman than the rest
of us?

On Jul 24, 7:41 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> > He got his ballpark, along with
>
> all that prime downtown property, courtesy of the city.
>
> You are aware that ownership of the ballpark reverts to the city after 20
> years, aren't you?

Uh huh. 20 years. John Moores basically owns this gift of a ballpark
until he is dead and gone. Sounds like he got a pretty sweet deal to
me.

> >We made him a
>
> very rich man.
>
> We did? Last time I checked, dude was already a billionaire before they
> broke ground on Petco.

Yeah, he was a billionaire when he arrived. Petco cost 450 million to
build. The city paid 315 million of that. The Padres paid 135 million.
What is all that downtown property valued at, that is now a part of
JMI Real Estate? You know them, they are the investment firm of the
John Moores family. In 1998, JMI Realty was appointed by the city to
be the master developer of the ballpark district. Thus began the $1.4
billion of redevelopment in the Ballpark District. Hey what's a little
eminent domain among friends. After all, Mr. Moores is going to use
those real estate profits to keep to Padres competitive, right? So
there is the 315 million the city spent, all the property taken and
handed to JMI, never mind the 15-20 million the city still spends
anually to operate Petco.You know, the Petco Park that John Moore owns
until what? 2024? Why doesnt John Moores spend that 15-20 million to
operate the park he owns until 2024? I dunno. Maybe the city of San
Diego wanted to make John Moores a very rich man. And by the looks of
it, I'd say they did a pretty good job too.

On Jul 24, 7:41 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> > He got his ballpark, along with
>
> all that prime downtown property, courtesy of the city.
>
> You are aware that ownership of the ballpark reverts to the city after 20
> years, aren't you?

Right about the time they'll be calling it old and run down and needing
replacement.

ScottW

On Jul 26, 9:37 am, "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 7:41 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>
> > > He got his ballpark, along with
>
> > all that prime downtown property, courtesy of the city.
>
> > You are aware that ownership of the ballpark reverts to the city after 20
> > years, aren't you?
>
> Right about the time they'll be calling it old and run down and needing
> replacement.




Ya, the toilets back up and suddenly you need a new building instead
of new pipes.

>Hiring Gwynn would accomplish the goals you mentioned, but I'm not
sure it would be a good move from a purely baseball standpoint.

I didn't say it would be a good idea, I said it's probably what would
happen.

On Jul 26, 8:12 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> >Hiring Gwynn would accomplish the goals you mentioned, but I'm not
>
> sure it would be a good move from a purely baseball standpoint.
>
> I didn't say it would be a good idea, I said it's probably what would
> happen.




I love Tony Gwynn, but he can't even win at SDSU.

> I love Tony Gwynn, but he can't even win at SDSU.

There's not really any comparison with being a college manager and a
professional manager. His lack of success at SDSU could just as well be due
to him not being a good recruiter. I don't follow college baseball closely
enough to have any insight into his skills as an in-game strategist. Maybe
you do.

On Jul 26, 8:28 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> > I love Tony Gwynn, but he can't even win at SDSU.
>
> There's not really any comparison with being a college manager and a
> professional manager. His lack of success at SDSU could just as well be due
> to him not being a good recruiter. I don't follow college baseball closely
> enough to have any insight into his skills as an in-game strategist. Maybe
> you do.



I've got no idea on the in-game strategist stuff.

One thing is: I'm really surprised that he hasn't yet been able to win
at SDSU. He's gotta have some sort of recruiting edge over his
competitors. Who better to teach a young player how to improve himself
at baseball? If I was a young player who had his choice of schools,
I'd seriously think about SDSU just because of Gwynn.

On Jul 26, 8:57 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 8:28 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>
> > > I love Tony Gwynn, but he can't even win at SDSU.
>
> > There's not really any comparison with being a college manager and a
> > professional manager. His lack of success at SDSU could just as well bedue
> > to him not being a good recruiter. I don't follow college baseball closely
> > enough to have any insight into his skills as an in-game strategist. Maybe
> > you do.
>
> I've got no idea on the in-game strategist stuff.
>
> One thing is: I'm really surprised that he hasn't yet been able to win
> at SDSU. He's gotta have some sort of recruiting edge over his
> competitors. Who better to teach a young player how to improve himself
> at baseball? If I was a young player who had his choice of schools,
> I'd seriously think about SDSU just because of Gwynn.

The problem has been that he signs kids that get drafted and either
sign or end up going to a community college so the can try and get a
better signing bonus. Sean O'Sullivan is one of those guys and there
have been plenty other. He is now recruiting the second tier kid so
they should be getting better.

Dano

On Jul 26, 8:57 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 8:28 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
>
> > > I love Tony Gwynn, but he can't even win at SDSU.
>
> > There's not really any comparison with being a college manager and a
> > professional manager. His lack of success at SDSU could just as well bedue
> > to him not being a good recruiter. I don't follow college baseball closely
> > enough to have any insight into his skills as an in-game strategist. Maybe
> > you do.
>
> I've got no idea on the in-game strategist stuff.
>
> One thing is: I'm really surprised that he hasn't yet been able to win
> at SDSU. He's gotta have some sort of recruiting edge over his
> competitors. Who better to teach a young player how to improve himself
> at baseball? If I was a young player who had his choice of schools,
> I'd seriously think about SDSU just because of Gwynn.

When he took the job there, I thought he was going to be a monster as
a recruiter, for the reasons you said, but I think I overestimated how
much the name "Tony Gwynn" means to the kids he's recruiting. Today's
eighteen-year-olds can probably only remember him as the fat old guy
who couldn't run - they would have been only seven when he won his
last batting title. There's nothing stopping them from reading about
how great he was, but they probably don't.

"Kurgan Gringioni." <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:70533a3a-e21e-463b-bbc9-a3918d7158dc@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 26, 8:28 pm, "badlands420" <b...@hole.com> wrote:
> > I love Tony Gwynn, but he can't even win at SDSU.
>
> There's not really any comparison with being a college manager and a
> professional manager. His lack of success at SDSU could just as well be due
> to him not being a good recruiter. I don't follow college baseball closely
> enough to have any insight into his skills as an in-game strategist. Maybe
> you do.



I've got no idea on the in-game strategist stuff.

One thing is: I'm really surprised that he hasn't yet been able to win
at SDSU. He's gotta have some sort of recruiting edge over his
competitors. Who better to teach a young player how to improve himself
at baseball?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tony needs to go on the Atkins plan.
I'm not sure a guy his size can do more than talk to a
kid. I don't think he can "show" them anything.
It helps to at least be able to go through the motions.
I'm not sure Tony can.

ScottW