Reports are that The Brewers/Cleveland trade are done and CC is going
to the Brew Crew. It's been fun for us watching him develop, and it's
unfortunate that CC couldn't help Cleveland get to and/or win the
World Series. Perhaps he'll have better luck in Milwaukee.
The breaking story on ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3475667

--
Doug

"doug" <perc2100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:71e157ee-25ef-4348-aca2-56f258ca966f@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Reports are that The Brewers/Cleveland trade are done and CC is going
> to the Brew Crew. It's been fun for us watching him develop, and it's
> unfortunate that CC couldn't help Cleveland get to and/or win the
> World Series. Perhaps he'll have better luck in Milwaukee.
> The breaking story on ESPN:
> http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3475667
>
> --
> Doug

Another HG product lost due to an owner refusing to pay
for the infrastructure needed to compete in the game he chose
to buy into. Dolan shouldn't own an MLB team. It's too bad he
owns the team we follow so closely. If you can't afford to play
the game to win, go find some hobby that you can/will afford.

Combine more rebuilding with the geniuses who
judge/evaluate/develop talent for this team, and there will be
twenty years between World Series appearances.

How about that Ryan Ludwick ?
Wonder if Jeremy Guthrie could start for the Tribe now?

Losing CC had become a Fait Accompli.

Whether or not they can help the team by
getting rid of dead dead wood - Byrd and Delucci,
will be seen soon. I doubt it.

They probably will get rid of people who bloom elsewhere -
Marte, Betancourt, Perez, Peralta, Gutierrez, Cabrera,
Francisco, and Laffey.

And Hafner will still be part of the Tribe.
And Wedge will still be the Manager.
And Boy Genius will still be the GM.
And we may see the Tribe in another WS around 2017.

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:06:14 -0700 (PDT), doug <perc2100@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Reports are that The Brewers/Cleveland trade are done and CC is going
>to the Brew Crew. It's been fun for us watching him develop, and it's
>unfortunate that CC couldn't help Cleveland get to and/or win the
>World Series. Perhaps he'll have better luck in Milwaukee.
>The breaking story on ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3475667


CC could have been better sooner if he'd been less stubborn and kept
trying too punch every opposing hitter out and throwing 100 pitches in
5 innings.

i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
$80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.

given that the bucks are renting CC, getting a guy who could be our
closer in 2010 or 2011 as well as a legitimate hitter isn't bad. the
only thing is that early draft reports list this guy as 1B/DH given
his defensive deficiencies. we've already got hafner - and if he can't
hit he'll have no trade value.

--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

On Jul 7, 12:24 am, barry <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:06:14 -0700 (PDT), doug <perc2...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Reports are that The Brewers/Cleveland trade are done and CC is going
> >to the Brew Crew. It's been fun for us watching him develop, and it's
> >unfortunate that CC couldn't help Cleveland get to and/or win the
> >World Series. Perhaps he'll have better luck in Milwaukee.
> >The breaking story on ESPN:http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3475667
>
> CC could have been better sooner if he'd been less stubborn and kept
> trying too punch every opposing hitter out and throwing 100 pitches in
> 5 innings.
>
> i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
> justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
> years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
> indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
> $80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
> after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
> interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.
>
> given that the bucks are renting CC, getting a guy who could be our
> closer in 2010 or 2011 as well as a legitimate hitter isn't bad. the
> only thing is that early draft reports list this guy as 1B/DH given
> his defensive deficiencies. we've already got hafner - and if he can't
> hit he'll have no trade value.
>
> --------
> "any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

Adios! Another greedy a-hole is gone! 72M not enough! He's way over
rated I think. Remember last year's post season debacles? How many BIG
games did he win then? ZERO!! Crumbled under the pressure. And now he
can crumble under the pressure over in the NL! A LOSER!!!!

On Jul 6, 9:56 pm, "Steve-O" <steveone...@alltel.net> wrote:
> "doug" <perc2...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:71e157ee-25ef-4348-aca2-56f258ca966f@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Reports are that The Brewers/Cleveland trade are done and CC is going
> > to the Brew Crew. It's been fun for us watching him develop, and it's
> > unfortunate that CC couldn't help Cleveland get to and/or win the
> > World Series. Perhaps he'll have better luck in Milwaukee.
> > The breaking story on ESPN:
> >http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3475667
>
> > --
> > Doug
>
> Another HG product lost due to an owner refusing to pay
> for the infrastructure needed to compete in the game he chose
> to buy into. Dolan shouldn't own an MLB team. It's too bad he
> owns the team we follow so closely. If you can't afford to play
> the game to win, go find some hobby that you can/will afford.
>
> Combine more rebuilding with the geniuses who
> judge/evaluate/develop talent for this team, and there will be
> twenty years between World Series appearances.
>
> How about that Ryan Ludwick ?
> Wonder if Jeremy Guthrie could start for the Tribe now?
>
> Losing CC had become a Fait Accompli.
>
> Whether or not they can help the team by
> getting rid of dead dead wood - Byrd and Delucci,
> will be seen soon. I doubt it.
>
> They probably will get rid of people who bloom elsewhere -
> Marte, Betancourt, Perez, Peralta, Gutierrez, Cabrera,
> Francisco, and Laffey.
>
> And Hafner will still be part of the Tribe.
> And Wedge will still be the Manager.
> And Boy Genius will still be the GM.
> And we may see the Tribe in another WS around 2017.

I hope you understand that the sticking point in keeping CC was the
length of the contract - and Dolan was wise not to even consider
signing him for 7 years.

On Jul 7, 6:33 am, wolfagain <w...@provide.net> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 12:24 am, barry <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:06:14 -0700 (PDT), doug <perc2...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Reports are that The Brewers/Cleveland trade are done and CC is going
> > >to the Brew Crew. It's been fun for us watching him develop, and it's
> > >unfortunate that CC couldn't help Cleveland get to and/or win the
> > >World Series. Perhaps he'll have better luck in Milwaukee.
> > >The breaking story on ESPN:http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3475667
>
> > CC could have been better sooner if he'd been less stubborn and kept
> > trying too punch every opposing hitter out and throwing 100 pitches in
> > 5 innings.
>
> > i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
> > justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
> > years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
> > indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
> > $80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
> > after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
> > interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.
>
> > given that the bucks are renting CC, getting a guy who could be our
> > closer in 2010 or 2011 as well as a legitimate hitter isn't bad. the
> > only thing is that early draft reports list this guy as 1B/DH given
> > his defensive deficiencies. we've already got hafner - and if he can't
> > hit he'll have no trade value.
>
> > --------
> > "any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"
>
> Adios! Another greedy a-hole is gone! 72M not enough! He's way over
> rated I think. Remember last year's post season debacles? How many BIG
> games did he win then? ZERO!! Crumbled under the pressure. And now he
> can crumble under the pressure over in the NL! A LOSER!!!!

Nah thats not overboard.

CC has earned the right to explore free agency. And with Barry Zito
still cashing pay checks, don't you think CC expects to rake in a huge
contract? He isn't greedy - he is just doing what everyone else would
do had they the opportunity.

"wolfagain" <wolf@provide.net> wrote in message
news:659cf060-b4de-430c-a1e1-d4ff782f2235@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

> Adios! Another greedy a-hole is gone! 72M not enough! He's way over
> rated I think. Remember last year's post season debacles? How many BIG
> games did he win then? ZERO!! Crumbled under the pressure. And now he
> can crumble under the pressure over in the NL! A LOSER!!!!

The strength of this team was its starters. Quality starters
are rarer than good corner outfielders with defensive liabilities.

This team was broken in the offseason and spring due to not being
able to find/develop run producers. Then, losses piled up wasting
great pitching. Now, a homegrown Cy Young winner is lost.

You cannot blame a player for taking the money he will be offered.

You can blame an owner who refuses to to reinvest in the talent
that the team has produced, and a known quantity.

Now the "management" of the Tribe has three or four Minor
leaguers instead of a Cy Young winner. Just based upon
recent history, maybe one will somewhat pan out.

Maybe next year.....

"MikeS" <mmsopp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c409f088-bdfe-4c8c-b0ab-36a6a06a1db6@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

> I hope you understand that the sticking point in keeping CC was the
> length of the contract - and Dolan was wise not to even consider
> signing him for 7 years.

Hadn't heard the seven year contract stipulation.
Not even the Yankees will give him that.
Five years max....

"barry" <toisan_boy@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k3a374l7boso3cpoi0afhsan8vedc1q1hd@4ax.com...
>
> i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
> justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
> years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
> indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
> $80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
> after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
> interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.
>

Barry -
I wonder how much leeway players really have with accepting offers.
What's the chance that the Union has a great big say on what a player
accepts or rejects. My guess is a whole lot.

These kids have to be overwhelmed with the publicity, and being
pulled back and forth by team loyalty, agents, and the union.

And, yes....23 to 28 year olds IMHO are still kids, especially
when dealing with amounts of money that'd get the attention
of medium sized countries.

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 18:01:20 -0400, "Steve-O" <steveoneill@alltel.net>
wrote:

>
>"barry" <toisan_boy@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:k3a374l7boso3cpoi0afhsan8vedc1q1hd@4ax.com...
>>
>> i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
>> justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
>> years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
>> indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
>> $80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
>> after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
>> interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.
>>
>
>Barry -
>I wonder how much leeway players really have with accepting offers.
>What's the chance that the Union has a great big say on what a player
>accepts or rejects. My guess is a whole lot.
>
>These kids have to be overwhelmed with the publicity, and being
>pulled back and forth by team loyalty, agents, and the union.
>
>And, yes....23 to 28 year olds IMHO are still kids, especially
>when dealing with amounts of money that'd get the attention
>of medium sized countries.
>

i would say more pressure from their agents - who make a percentage of
what their clients earn. but it's still a legitimate point. so why
didn't a reporter phrase the question that way:

hey cc, let's do the math: 72 million, minus 10% to your agent is 65
mil. 50% to uncle sam leaves 32 mil and change. let's say you spend a
million a year. so in 2014, you still have $28 million in the bank -
plus whatever you've saved up, plus whatever you've earned in interest
during that time. so at a VERY conservative estimate of 4% interest,
you'll get a million bucks a year JUST IN INTEREST - or about $80k a
month - wiithout ever touching your savings. can you help the fans
understand just exactly

WHAT KIND OF F--KING FINANCIAL SECURITY DO YOU WANT? ARE YOU WORRIED
ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD EXTRA CHEESE ON YOUR WHOPPERS OR WHAT?

------------
ok rant over. what's done is done.

laporta is the brewers' version of sean casey - 24 year old 2008 all
star ryan braun currently occupies LF while 24 year old prince fielder
(50 HR 119 RBIs in 2007) currently occupies 1B. that's probably the
only reason laporta was playing RF for the brewers. his best fit will
probably be either 1B or LF given his defensive deficiencies. or if
hafner somehow never recovers, new DH.

the player TBD could be very significant - that's how we got coco
crisp when we dumped chuck finley - and you can be sure tribe mgmt
will be scouting these players for the rest of the season. i was
surprised to see in the milwaukee sentinel a comment that prospect
green currently playing 3B would be be a candidate to swap to 2B. WHY?
between cabrera & barfield we should have at least one viable 2B. but
by the end of the season, we'll know, so get something for blake and
play marte for the rest of the year. if he proves himself, great, if
not, take green. but brantley & cain are intriguing prospects too.

bryson - best case scenario - 2010 closer, given his K/innings ratio.

jackson - eh, but we needed to get a starter back for depth,
acquisition of jeff weaver off waivers not withstanding.

could be good/good good/bad bad/good or bad/bad trade but only time
will tell. the bullpen wasn't going to improve anytime soon, so CC
gives the brewers 14-15 starts barring injury and we get more than two
compensation picks in the upcoming draft plus the years in
development.
------------------
we should hire somebody from milwaikee to evaluate the draft for us -
braun and fielder are top 10 picks. but the coaching might have
something to do with it
-----------------
jason michaels has dropped to about .260 but he still hit .300 for a
month after leaving cleveland. that suggests to me that *something* in
the environment in cleveland needs to be addressed.

is alvaro espinoza still playing? he was always reliable for sticking
chewing gum in somebody's cap at least once a day. hyuk hyuk. but IMO
the indians need *somebody* in the clubhouse that'll loosen things up.
maybe one day wedge comes out wearing groucho marx glasses or with a
long stream of toilet paper stuck to his cleats - or wearing scuba
flippers - when he walks the lineup out to the umpire one day....


--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 09:06:47 -0400, "Steve-O" <steveoneill@alltel.net>
wrote:

>
>"MikeS" <mmsopp@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:c409f088-bdfe-4c8c-b0ab-36a6a06a1db6@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I hope you understand that the sticking point in keeping CC was the
>> length of the contract - and Dolan was wise not to even consider
>> signing him for 7 years.
>
>Hadn't heard the seven year contract stipulation.
>Not even the Yankees will give him that.
>Five years max....
>

i'm hard pressed to recall any marquee pitcher who proved to be a
bargain in a 5+ year contract. four years was prudent fiscal judgement
IMO. and that's not even dredging up the memories of wayne garland and
jack mcdowell.

of course, having said that, CC will now sign a 10 year contract for a
gazlillion dollars and pitch without further injury until the age of
45 and win 400 games.


--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

On Jul 7, 9:06 am, "Steve-O" <steveone...@alltel.net> wrote:
> "MikeS" <mms...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c409f088-bdfe-4c8c-b0ab-36a6a06a1db6@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I hope you understand that the sticking point in keeping CC was the
> > length of the contract - and Dolan was wise not to even consider
> > signing him for 7 years.
>
> Hadn't heard the seven year contract stipulation.
> Not even the Yankees will give him that.
> Five years max....

Its been said that he wants a contract similar to what Santana signed
with the Mets.

On Jul 7, 7:35 pm, barry <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 18:01:20 -0400, "Steve-O" <steveone...@alltel.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"barry" <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:k3a374l7boso3cpoi0afhsan8vedc1q1hd@4ax.com...
>
> >> i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
> >> justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
> >> years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
> >> indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
> >> $80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
> >> after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
> >> interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.
>
> >Barry -
> >I wonder how much leeway players really have with accepting offers.
> >What's the chance that the Union has a great big say on what a player
> >accepts or rejects. My guess is a whole lot.
>
> >These kids have to be overwhelmed with the publicity, and being
> >pulled back and forth by team loyalty, agents, and the union.
>
> >And, yes....23 to 28 year olds IMHO are still kids, especially
> >when dealing with amounts of money that'd get the attention
> >of medium sized countries.
>
> i would say more pressure from their agents - who make a percentage of
> what their clients earn. but it's still a legitimate point. so why
> didn't a reporter phrase the question that way:
>
> hey cc, let's do the math: 72 million, minus 10% to your agent is 65
> mil. 50% to uncle sam leaves 32 mil and change. let's say you spend a
> million a year. so in 2014, you still have $28 million in the bank -
> plus whatever you've saved up, plus whatever you've earned in interest
> during that time. so at a VERY conservative estimate of 4% interest,
> you'll get a million bucks a year JUST IN INTEREST - or about $80k a
> month - wiithout ever touching your savings. can you help the fans
> understand just exactly
>
> WHAT KIND OF F--KING FINANCIAL SECURITY DO YOU WANT? ARE YOU WORRIED
> ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD EXTRA CHEESE ON YOUR WHOPPERS OR WHAT?
>
> ------------
> ok rant over. what's done is done.
>
> laporta is the brewers' version of sean casey - 24 year old 2008 all
> star ryan braun currently occupies LF while 24 year old prince fielder
> (50 HR 119 RBIs in 2007) currently occupies 1B. that's probably the
> only reason laporta was playing RF for the brewers. his best fit will
> probably be either 1B or LF given his defensive deficiencies. or if
> hafner somehow never recovers, new DH.
>
> the player TBD could be very significant - that's how we got coco
> crisp when we dumped chuck finley - and you can be sure tribe mgmt
> will be scouting these players for the rest of the season. i was
> surprised to see in the milwaukee sentinel a comment that prospect
> green currently playing 3B would be be a candidate to swap to 2B. WHY?
> between cabrera & barfield we should have at least one viable 2B. but
> by the end of the season, we'll know, so get something for blake and
> play marte for the rest of the year. if he proves himself, great, if
> not, take green. but brantley & cain are intriguing prospects too.
>
> bryson - best case scenario - 2010 closer, given his K/innings ratio.
>
> jackson - eh, but we needed to get a starter back for depth,
> acquisition of jeff weaver off waivers not withstanding.
>
> could be good/good good/bad bad/good or bad/bad trade but only time
> will tell. the bullpen wasn't going to improve anytime soon, so CC
> gives the brewers 14-15 starts barring injury and we get more than two
> compensation picks in the upcoming draft plus the years in
> development.
> ------------------
> we should hire somebody from milwaikee to evaluate the draft for us -
> braun and fielder are top 10 picks. but the coaching might have
> something to do with it
> -----------------
> jason michaels has dropped to about .260 but he still hit .300 for a
> month after leaving cleveland. that suggests to me that *something* in
> the environment in cleveland needs to be addressed.
>
> is alvaro espinoza still playing? he was always reliable for sticking
> chewing gum in somebody's cap at least once a day. hyuk hyuk. but IMO
> the indians need *somebody* in the clubhouse that'll loosen things up.
> maybe one day wedge comes out wearing groucho marx glasses or with a
> long stream of toilet paper stuck to his cleats - or wearing scuba
> flippers - when he walks the lineup out to the umpire one day....
>
> --------
> "any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

I've read different reports that LaPorta is not as poor a defensive OF
as previously mentioned/assumed. His value to the team is greater if
he can play the OF, but even if he is limited to 1b/dh he has to
become the best prospect in the system immediately.

On Jul 7, 7:35 pm, barry <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 18:01:20 -0400, "Steve-O" <steveone...@alltel.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"barry" <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:k3a374l7boso3cpoi0afhsan8vedc1q1hd@4ax.com...
>
> >> i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
> >> justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
> >> years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
> >> indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
> >> $80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
> >> after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
> >> interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.
>
> >Barry -
> >I wonder how much leeway players really have with accepting offers.
> >What's the chance that the Union has a great big say on what a player
> >accepts or rejects. My guess is a whole lot.
>
> >These kids have to be overwhelmed with the publicity, and being
> >pulled back and forth by team loyalty, agents, and the union.
>
> >And, yes....23 to 28 year olds IMHO are still kids, especially
> >when dealing with amounts of money that'd get the attention
> >of medium sized countries.
>
> i would say more pressure from their agents - who make a percentage of
> what their clients earn. but it's still a legitimate point. so why
> didn't a reporter phrase the question that way:
>
> hey cc, let's do the math: 72 million, minus 10% to your agent is 65
> mil. 50% to uncle sam leaves 32 mil and change. let's say you spend a
> million a year. so in 2014, you still have $28 million in the bank -
> plus whatever you've saved up, plus whatever you've earned in interest
> during that time. so at a VERY conservative estimate of 4% interest,
> you'll get a million bucks a year JUST IN INTEREST - or about $80k a
> month - wiithout ever touching your savings. can you help the fans
> understand just exactly
>
> WHAT KIND OF F--KING FINANCIAL SECURITY DO YOU WANT? ARE YOU WORRIED
> ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD EXTRA CHEESE ON YOUR WHOPPERS OR WHAT?
>
> ------------
> ok rant over. what's done is done.
>
> laporta is the brewers' version of sean casey - 24 year old 2008 all
> star ryan braun currently occupies LF while 24 year old prince fielder
> (50 HR 119 RBIs in 2007) currently occupies 1B. that's probably the
> only reason laporta was playing RF for the brewers. his best fit will
> probably be either 1B or LF given his defensive deficiencies. or if
> hafner somehow never recovers, new DH.
>
> the player TBD could be very significant - that's how we got coco
> crisp when we dumped chuck finley - and you can be sure tribe mgmt
> will be scouting these players for the rest of the season. i was
> surprised to see in the milwaukee sentinel a comment that prospect
> green currently playing 3B would be be a candidate to swap to 2B. WHY?
> between cabrera & barfield we should have at least one viable 2B. but
> by the end of the season, we'll know, so get something for blake and
> play marte for the rest of the year. if he proves himself, great, if
> not, take green. but brantley & cain are intriguing prospects too.
>
> bryson - best case scenario - 2010 closer, given his K/innings ratio.
>
> jackson - eh, but we needed to get a starter back for depth,
> acquisition of jeff weaver off waivers not withstanding.
>
> could be good/good good/bad bad/good or bad/bad trade but only time
> will tell. the bullpen wasn't going to improve anytime soon, so CC
> gives the brewers 14-15 starts barring injury and we get more than two
> compensation picks in the upcoming draft plus the years in
> development.
> ------------------
> we should hire somebody from milwaikee to evaluate the draft for us -
> braun and fielder are top 10 picks. but the coaching might have
> something to do with it
> -----------------
> jason michaels has dropped to about .260 but he still hit .300 for a
> month after leaving cleveland. that suggests to me that *something* in
> the environment in cleveland needs to be addressed.
>
> is alvaro espinoza still playing? he was always reliable for sticking
> chewing gum in somebody's cap at least once a day. hyuk hyuk. but IMO
> the indians need *somebody* in the clubhouse that'll loosen things up.
> maybe one day wedge comes out wearing groucho marx glasses or with a
> long stream of toilet paper stuck to his cleats - or wearing scuba
> flippers - when he walks the lineup out to the umpire one day....
>
> --------
> "any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

And meant to comment on Green too - an offensive minded second baseman
who can field his position is something the Indians currently do not
have. Keep in mind he is in Single A and it will be a couple of years
before Green is even on the radar.

I've read that the PTBNL is down to Brantley or Green - that Cain
isn't even on the list.

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:42:46 -0700 (PDT), MikeS <mmsopp@gmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>
>
>I've read different reports that LaPorta is not as poor a defensive OF

he's not very fleet of foot and has an average arm. . if there's a
runner on 2B, he has to hold until the ball goes through the infield
on the left side. making him less likely to score on a hit to LF so
the LF mainly needs to be able to hit the cutoff man who will be in
short LF anyway.

but i could see a lot of runners going from 1st to 3rd or jogging home
(figuratively speaking) from 2B on a hit to RF, or trying to stretch
a double into a triple if the RF is slow and has a weak-to-average
arm.

>as previously mentioned/assumed. His value to the team is greater if
>he can play the OF, but even if he is limited to 1b/dh he has to
>become the best prospect in the system immediately.

LF & 1B, not not necessarily *easy*, are the least challegning places
to play defensively traditionally - and that's where you "hide" your
slow lumbering power hitters (in the NL, anyway). you probably don't
need foot speed as much at 1B, but a 1B with the ability to do the
splits and dig throws out of the dirt will save his teammates a lot of
potential errors and make the pitching staff a lot happier -
especailly sinkerball pitchers like carmona & westbrook.


--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 05:45:45 -0700 (PDT), MikeS <mmsopp@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Jul 7, 7:35 pm, barry <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 18:01:20 -0400, "Steve-O" <steveone...@alltel.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >"barry" <toisan_...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:k3a374l7boso3cpoi0afhsan8vedc1q1hd@4ax.com...
>>
>> >> i have problems with a player using the phrase "financial security" to
>> >> justify wanting a 5+ year contract when he's offered $18 mil for four
>> >> years. i suppose he'll get more elsewhere, but with the contract the
>> >> indians offered, even after taxes CC will have a family budget of over
>> >> $80k a MONTH for the REST OF HIS LIFE - even if he never plays again
>> >> after 2013 if he just takes his money and puts in the bank at 2.5%
>> >> interest. the average fan may not take home 80k in 2 years.
>>
>> >Barry -
>> >I wonder how much leeway players really have with accepting offers.
>> >What's the chance that the Union has a great big say on what a player
>> >accepts or rejects. My guess is a whole lot.
>>
>> >These kids have to be overwhelmed with the publicity, and being
>> >pulled back and forth by team loyalty, agents, and the union.
>>
>> >And, yes....23 to 28 year olds IMHO are still kids, especially
>> >when dealing with amounts of money that'd get the attention
>> >of medium sized countries.
>>
>> i would say more pressure from their agents - who make a percentage of
>> what their clients earn. but it's still a legitimate point. so why
>> didn't a reporter phrase the question that way:
>>
>> hey cc, let's do the math: 72 million, minus 10% to your agent is 65
>> mil. 50% to uncle sam leaves 32 mil and change. let's say you spend a
>> million a year. so in 2014, you still have $28 million in the bank -
>> plus whatever you've saved up, plus whatever you've earned in interest
>> during that time. so at a VERY conservative estimate of 4% interest,
>> you'll get a million bucks a year JUST IN INTEREST - or about $80k a
>> month - wiithout ever touching your savings. can you help the fans
>> understand just exactly
>>
>> WHAT KIND OF F--KING FINANCIAL SECURITY DO YOU WANT? ARE YOU WORRIED
>> ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD EXTRA CHEESE ON YOUR WHOPPERS OR WHAT?
>>
>> ------------
>> ok rant over. what's done is done.
>>
>> laporta is the brewers' version of sean casey - 24 year old 2008 all
>> star ryan braun currently occupies LF while 24 year old prince fielder
>> (50 HR 119 RBIs in 2007) currently occupies 1B. that's probably the
>> only reason laporta was playing RF for the brewers. his best fit will
>> probably be either 1B or LF given his defensive deficiencies. or if
>> hafner somehow never recovers, new DH.
>>
>> the player TBD could be very significant - that's how we got coco
>> crisp when we dumped chuck finley - and you can be sure tribe mgmt
>> will be scouting these players for the rest of the season. i was
>> surprised to see in the milwaukee sentinel a comment that prospect
>> green currently playing 3B would be be a candidate to swap to 2B. WHY?
>> between cabrera & barfield we should have at least one viable 2B. but
>> by the end of the season, we'll know, so get something for blake and
>> play marte for the rest of the year. if he proves himself, great, if
>> not, take green. but brantley & cain are intriguing prospects too.
>>
>> bryson - best case scenario - 2010 closer, given his K/innings ratio.
>>
>> jackson - eh, but we needed to get a starter back for depth,
>> acquisition of jeff weaver off waivers not withstanding.
>>
>> could be good/good good/bad bad/good or bad/bad trade but only time
>> will tell. the bullpen wasn't going to improve anytime soon, so CC
>> gives the brewers 14-15 starts barring injury and we get more than two
>> compensation picks in the upcoming draft plus the years in
>> development.
>> ------------------
>> we should hire somebody from milwaikee to evaluate the draft for us -
>> braun and fielder are top 10 picks. but the coaching might have
>> something to do with it
>> -----------------
>> jason michaels has dropped to about .260 but he still hit .300 for a
>> month after leaving cleveland. that suggests to me that *something* in
>> the environment in cleveland needs to be addressed.
>>
>> is alvaro espinoza still playing? he was always reliable for sticking
>> chewing gum in somebody's cap at least once a day. hyuk hyuk. but IMO
>> the indians need *somebody* in the clubhouse that'll loosen things up.
>> maybe one day wedge comes out wearing groucho marx glasses or with a
>> long stream of toilet paper stuck to his cleats - or wearing scuba
>> flippers - when he walks the lineup out to the umpire one day....
>>
>> --------
>> "any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"
>
>And meant to comment on Green too - an offensive minded second baseman
>who can field his position is something the Indians currently do not
>have. Keep in mind he is in Single A and it will be a couple of years
>before Green is even on the radar.
>
>I've read that the PTBNL is down to Brantley or Green - that Cain
>isn't even on the list.

so we don't care whether cain is, abel, er, able?

i saw that the brain trust is thinking of moving green to 2B, but i
don't see the reasoning behind that given we have a possible hole at
3B and 2-3 serviceable 2B in cabrera, barfield and possibly carroll?

brantley is in the coco crisp mold - except he might actually become a
viable leadoff hitter. grady may love leading off, but if he's capable
of 35-40 HRs a year, i'd rather see those HR's come with 2-3 men on
base and get brantley in there. i just don't know were we'd play him
though. laporta in LF means that garko is playing well - and NOT
martinez there; martinez's power numbers at 1B would make him about
20th out of 28. more importantly, martinez handles the staff well and
calls a good game. and francisco/gutierriez are talented enough - one
should be able to claim RF. maybe the other becomes trade bait for
pitching?

i would like to see cabrera play SS and take the defensive presence
over peralta's potential to produce. that's make us really strong up
the middle - something every successful team needs to have. i would
make peralta move to 2B (assuming he can turn the pivot), which would
give us a "power" 2B, not necessarily jeff kent, but decent, OR move
him to 3B if barfield comes back and marte tanks but we still take
brantley instead of green.

we have the potential to field a pretty decent team next year.
laffey's fairly solid if not spectacular. lee & carmona are a decent 1
& 2, and westsbrook makes it back that would give us starters, with
sowers et al a candidate for #5. or maybe everybody plays well enough
to give us assets to trade for a pitcher. who knows?





--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"