I say - yes!

A trade involving the Raptors I mean.

--
OK

On Jun 10, 9:48 am, "Onion Knight" <dioneo(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
> I say - yes!
>
> A trade involving the Raptors I mean.
>
> --
> OK

What do you propose? Draft pick trade? TJ Ford trade?

"ebrian" <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jun 10, 9:48 am, "Onion Knight" <dioneo(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I say - yes!
>>
>> A trade involving the Raptors I mean.
>
> What do you propose? Draft pick trade? TJ Ford trade?

Yeah, I think Ford gets moved at that time. Maybe to get a high pick,
maybe for the elusive athletic SF.

--
OK

On Jun 11, 10:08 am, "Onion Knight" <dioneo(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
> "ebrian" <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 10, 9:48 am, "Onion Knight" <dioneo(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> I say - yes!
>
> >> A trade involving the Raptors I mean.
>
> > What do you propose? Draft pick trade? TJ Ford trade?
>
> Yeah, I think Ford gets moved at that time. Maybe to get a high pick,
> maybe for the elusive athletic SF.
>
> --
> OK

We need a new SG too. And a center.

>> What do you propose? Draft pick trade? TJ Ford trade?

> Yeah, I think Ford gets moved at that time. Maybe to get a high pick,
> maybe for the elusive athletic SF.

Looks to my uninformed analysis like Joe Alexander is the only one worth
trading up for.

Beasley is a tweener, Mayo, Bayless and Gordon are too short to play any
SF. Randolph is too soft for this team.
Gallinari is not athletic enough and too De Ja Vu.

If they can trade up to get Joe that would be cool, otherwise, might as
well keep the 17th and take whichever of
Chase Budinger, Chris Douglas-Roberts or Nicolas Batum is available.

Personaly, I hope they get Alexander, Budinger or CDR, with CDR being a
Mo-Pete type good reserve player, marginal
started when needed.

Or even better, trade down for Denver's pick, still draft CDR and send Ford
along with Kapano, Parker
or Moon in a deal for Carmelo Anthony.



--
Quirk <quirk@telekommunisten.net>

OurNewsGroup.org: The Wiki for Usenet http://www.ournewsgroup.org/Quirk

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On Jun 12, 8:01 am, Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
> >> What do you propose? Draft pick trade? TJ Ford trade?
> > Yeah, I think Ford gets moved at that time. Maybe to get a high pick,
> > maybe for the elusive athletic SF.
>
> Looks to my uninformed analysis like Joe Alexander is the only one worth
> trading up for.
>
> Beasley is a tweener, Mayo, Bayless and Gordon are too short to play any
> SF. Randolph is too soft for this team.
> Gallinari is not athletic enough and too De Ja Vu.
>
> If they can trade up to get Joe that would be cool, otherwise, might as
> well keep the 17th and take whichever of
> Chase Budinger, Chris Douglas-Roberts or Nicolas Batum is available.
>
> Personaly, I hope they get Alexander, Budinger or CDR, with CDR being a
> Mo-Pete type good reserve player, marginal
> started when needed.
>
> Or even better, trade down for Denver's pick, still draft CDR and send Ford
> along with Kapano, Parker
> or Moon in a deal for Carmelo Anthony.
>
> --
> Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net>
>
> OurNewsGroup.org: The Wiki for Usenethttp://www.ournewsgroup.org/Quirk
>
> http://www.dialstation.com
> - international calling from your mobile phone.
> - no special software to use, just your phone.
> - first call free, no sign up, just call!

Hey man, what's up with Joe Alexander, I keep hearing his name
synonymous with "sleeper". What's the deal with him, do you have any
additional information than what's written in nbadraft.net and
draftexpress.com?

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:13:02 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey man, what's up with Joe Alexander, I keep hearing his name
> synonymous with "sleeper". What's the deal with him, do you have any
> additional information than what's written in nbadraft.net and
> draftexpress.com?

No, I have less information than is available from those sites, just that
he sounds
like the kind of player that fits both the NBA and the Raptors.

Mabye somebody who actually watches basketball can comment?

I say trade up for Alexander, or trade down for CDR, otherwise just
take CDR at 17 or take a closer look at Chase, Batum or maybe Rush.

Outside of Alexander, I don't see a significant wing player in the draft
for us, and
would rather see Toronto make a play for Marion, Carmelo, or another
legitimate NBA
starting SF.




--
Quirk <quirk@telekommunisten.net>

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On Jun 12, 9:28 am, Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:13:02 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey man, what's up with Joe Alexander, I keep hearing his name
> > synonymous with "sleeper". What's the deal with him, do you have any
> > additional information than what's written in nbadraft.net and
> > draftexpress.com?
>
> No, I have less information than is available from those sites, just that
> he sounds
> like the kind of player that fits both the NBA and the Raptors.
>
> Mabye somebody who actually watches basketball can comment?
>
> I say trade up for Alexander, or trade down for CDR, otherwise just
> take CDR at 17 or take a closer look at Chase, Batum or maybe Rush.
>
> Outside of Alexander, I don't see a significant wing player in the draft
> for us, and
> would rather see Toronto make a play for Marion, Carmelo, or another
> legitimate NBA
> starting SF.
>
> --
> Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net>
>
> http://www.dialstation.com
> - international calling from your mobile phone.
> - no special software to use, just your phone.
> - get your free trial today!

I think the Raptors' best chance at landing a solid wing player is
through a trade for a veteran player, not through the draft. Like you
said there are very few fit the mold we're looking for in this year's
draft class and the best prospects will be taken early.

DraftExpress has some recent scouting reports on Alexander and seems
like everyone goes in with high expectations and comes out even more
impressed. Someone like that will likely go in the top 10. He's
going to be a lottery pick..

I just don't know that we have the right players to trade up with.
Teams looking to trade down are looking for value. A relatively
underpaid player or someone who has a lot of upside. We don't have
anyone like that, unless you want us to trade Jamario Moon.

I also don't think we have the pieces to get someone like Carmelo or
Marion. That's shooting way too high, and unrealistic.

Last thing I heard from Denver was Carmelo, Kenyon and Camby going to
Detroit for Billups, Tayshaun and Rasheed. That's the kind of
personnel they're looking for, which we simply don't have. You have
to think about the situation Denver is in. They have a small window
to work with here. There's no one on our team that can join their
team and immediately make more impact than what they already have
except for Chris Bosh.

As for Miami, Marion is $17M of cap relief. The only player they'd
draft Marion for is Chris Bosh.

On Jun 13, 10:00 am, ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 9:28 am, Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:13:02 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hey man, what's up with Joe Alexander, I keep hearing his name
> > > synonymous with "sleeper". What's the deal with him, do you have any
> > > additional information than what's written in nbadraft.net and
> > > draftexpress.com?
>
> > No, I have less information than is available from those sites, just that
> > he sounds
> > like the kind of player that fits both the NBA and the Raptors.
>
> > Mabye somebody who actually watches basketball can comment?
>
> > I say trade up for Alexander, or trade down for CDR, otherwise just
> > take CDR at 17 or take a closer look at Chase, Batum or maybe Rush.
>
> > Outside of Alexander, I don't see a significant wing player in the draft
> > for us, and
> > would rather see Toronto make a play for Marion, Carmelo, or another
> > legitimate NBA
> > starting SF.
>
> > --
> > Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net>
>
> >http://www.dialstation.com
> > - international calling from your mobile phone.
> > - no special software to use, just your phone.
> > - get your free trial today!
>
> I think the Raptors' best chance at landing a solid wing player is
> through a trade for a veteran player, not through the draft. Like you
> said there are very few fit the mold we're looking for in this year's
> draft class and the best prospects will be taken early.
>
> DraftExpress has some recent scouting reports on Alexander and seems
> like everyone goes in with high expectations and comes out even more
> impressed. Someone like that will likely go in the top 10. He's
> going to be a lottery pick..
>
> I just don't know that we have the right players to trade up with.
> Teams looking to trade down are looking for value. A relatively
> underpaid player or someone who has a lot of upside. We don't have
> anyone like that, unless you want us to trade Jamario Moon.
>
> I also don't think we have the pieces to get someone like Carmelo or
> Marion. That's shooting way too high, and unrealistic.
>
> Last thing I heard from Denver was Carmelo, Kenyon and Camby going to
> Detroit for Billups, Tayshaun and Rasheed. That's the kind of
> personnel they're looking for, which we simply don't have. You have
> to think about the situation Denver is in. They have a small window
> to work with here. There's no one on our team that can join their
> team and immediately make more impact than what they already have
> except for Chris Bosh.
>
> As for Miami, Marion is $17M of cap relief. The only player they'd
> draft Marion for is Chris Bosh.

Sorry to sound so negative..

Anyway, I thought a good possibility was a sign-and-trade deal with
the Clippers for Maggette. I don't know if Livingston will ever be
the same, that is if he ever plays again.

If Maggette were to exercise his player option (which he won't.. word
is he wants out), he makes approximately the same as Ford does.

Another option is the Knicks, where we can upgrade Anthony Parker into
a Jamal Crawford. Not the most ideal but he's a good scorer which
we've been lacking. Crawford makes less than Ford, so maybe we ask
the Knicks to throw in David Lee (wishful thinking but hey, it's more
realistic than landing Shawn Marion!)

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:15:03 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:

>> As for Miami, Marion is $17M of cap relief. The only player they'd
>> draft Marion for is Chris Bosh.

Not sure about that, Ford, Kapano, Moon and Anthony Parker are all players
they may find interesting, and Marion is a sign-and-trade so they will not
get anything close to Bosh in terms of value for him. If Riley likes Ford,
something could be worked out.


> Sorry to sound so negative..

You didn't sound negative, in general it's a good bet that we will not get
Alexander, Marion or Anthony, for the reasons you mention. But these are
the days of hope! We will see what BC will do.


> Anyway, I thought a good possibility was a sign-and-trade deal with
> the Clippers for Maggette. I don't know if Livingston will ever be
> the same, that is if he ever plays again.


To make space for a new star wing and a draft wing two of Anthony Parker,
Jason Kapano, Carlos Delfino, Jamario Moon and Joey Graham would not be
back, and Parker, Kapano And Moon definitely have pretty good trade value.

So maybe Ford and one or two of the others could be packaged for Maggette
and the 7th, meaning we can draft Alaxander, or the same type package for
Marion, and we draft can Douglas-Roberts.



--
Dmytri Kleiner
editing text files since 1981

http://www.telekommunisten.net

On Jun 14, 7:12 am, Dmytri Kleiner <d...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:15:03 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> As for Miami, Marion is $17M of cap relief. The only player they'd
> >> draft Marion for is Chris Bosh.
>
> Not sure about that, Ford, Kapano, Moon and Anthony Parker are all players
> they may find interesting, and Marion is a sign-and-trade so they will not
> get anything close to Bosh in terms of value for him. If Riley likes Ford,
> something could be worked out.
>
> > Sorry to sound so negative..
>
> You didn't sound negative, in general it's a good bet that we will not get
> Alexander, Marion or Anthony, for the reasons you mention. But these are
> the days of hope! We will see what BC will do.
>
> > Anyway, I thought a good possibility was a sign-and-trade deal with
> > the Clippers for Maggette. I don't know if Livingston will ever be
> > the same, that is if he ever plays again.
>
> To make space for a new star wing and a draft wing two of Anthony Parker,
> Jason Kapano, Carlos Delfino, Jamario Moon and Joey Graham would not be
> back, and Parker, Kapano And Moon definitely have pretty good trade value.
>
> So maybe Ford and one or two of the others could be packaged for Maggette
> and the 7th, meaning we can draft Alaxander, or the same type package for
> Marion, and we draft can Douglas-Roberts.
>
> --
> Dmytri Kleiner
> editing text files since 1981
>
> http://www.telekommunisten.net

With Marion, the Heat have $17M of cap space opening up, ie: Elton
Brand money. Do you really believe that Riley will find role players
like Kapono, Parker, Moon more interesting?

We can't really package Delfino anywhere since his contract is already
finished. I think we'd have be to fools to trade Moon and his
$450,000 salary.

Kapono makes almost as much as Ford, with 3 years remaining, so he's
not going anywhere, unless you want us to take some crap contract back
from the Clippers.

Ford and Anthony Parker for Maggette?

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:55:59 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:

> With Marion, the Heat have $17M of cap space opening up, ie: Elton
> Brand money.

> Do you really believe that Riley will find role players
> like Kapono, Parker, Moon more interesting?

Ford is not a role player, but a starting PG. If Riley likes him, then yes,
I think he might be interested. one of Kapono, Parker or Moon is filler.
Pretty good filler for a team that has holes in a lot of spots.


> We can't really package Delfino anywhere since his contract is already
> finished.

We could do a sign and trade if need be, though I agree that Delfino is not
an important trading asset. If any of Moon, Parker and/or Kapono get
traded, I can see us keeping him.


> I think we'd have be to fools to trade Moon and his
> $450,000 salary.

If it landed us a legit star SF, we would be fools not to.


> Kapono makes almost as much as Ford, with 3 years remaining, so he's
> not going anywhere, unless you want us to take some crap contract back
> from the Clippers.

Kapono is an asset, he is one of the leagues best 3pt shooters, if not the
best. Perhaps Toronto didn't get maximum value out of his skills.


> Ford and Anthony Parker for Maggette?

I would rather do Ford, Moon and Kapono For Maggette, their pick and
filler. I really like the idea of having Maggette and Parker as our
starting wings with Joe Alexander in the mix.




--
Quirk <quirk@telekommunisten.net>

http://www.dialstation.com
- international calling from your mobile phone.
- no special software to use, just your phone.
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On Jun 17, 6:24 am, Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:55:59 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > With Marion, the Heat have $17M of cap space opening up, ie: Elton
> > Brand money.
> > Do you really believe that Riley will find role players
> > like Kapono, Parker, Moon more interesting?
>
> Ford is not a role player, but a starting PG. If Riley likes him, then yes,
> I think he might be interested. one of Kapono, Parker or Moon is filler.
> Pretty good filler for a team that has holes in a lot of spots.
>
> > We can't really package Delfino anywhere since his contract is already
> > finished.
>
> We could do a sign and trade if need be, though I agree that Delfino is not
> an important trading asset. If any of Moon, Parker and/or Kapono get
> traded, I can see us keeping him.
>
> > I think we'd have be to fools to trade Moon and his
> > $450,000 salary.
>
> If it landed us a legit star SF, we would be fools not to.
>
> > Kapono makes almost as much as Ford, with 3 years remaining, so he's
> > not going anywhere, unless you want us to take some crap contract back
> > from the Clippers.
>
> Kapono is an asset, he is one of the leagues best 3pt shooters, if not the
> best. Perhaps Toronto didn't get maximum value out of his skills.
>
> > Ford and Anthony Parker for Maggette?
>
> I would rather do Ford, Moon and Kapono For Maggette, their pick and
> filler. I really like the idea of having Maggette and Parker as our
> starting wings with Joe Alexander in the mix.
>
> --
> Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net>
>
> http://www.dialstation.com
> - international calling from your mobile phone.
> - no special software to use, just your phone.
> - first call free, no sign up, just call!

Hahah.. I dunno man. I just don't see it happening (Marion) and I
prefer not to dream about something that I think will never happen.

I think Douglas-Roberts will find his way to the second round, so he
could be had pretty cheap.. he's just not that good.

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:34:00 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hahah.. I dunno man. I just don't see it happening (Marion) and I
> prefer not to dream about something that I think will never happen.
>
> I think Douglas-Roberts will find his way to the second round, so he
> could be had pretty cheap.. he's just not that good.

So what do you think our chances of getting Maggette and there first round
pick from the clips for Ford and Moon and our pick?

That would give us Maggette and Parker as our starting wings, and the
chance to draft Joe Alexander as a potential future starter.

Moon and Ford are good players on good contracts, and that should be
attractive to the Clippers, as might the lower pay scale of a 17th draft
pick instead of the guaranteed salary of a 7th.



--
DE +49 163 286 6163
UK +44 794 244 4444

On Jun 18, 5:51 am, Dmytri Kleiner <d...@trick.ca> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:34:00 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hahah.. I dunno man. I just don't see it happening (Marion) and I
> > prefer not to dream about something that I think will never happen.
>
> > I think Douglas-Roberts will find his way to the second round, so he
> > could be had pretty cheap.. he's just not that good.
>
> So what do you think our chances of getting Maggette and there first round
> pick from the clips for Ford and Moon and our pick?
>
> That would give us Maggette and Parker as our starting wings, and the
> chance to draft Joe Alexander as a potential future starter.
>
> Moon and Ford are good players on good contracts, and that should be
> attractive to the Clippers, as might the lower pay scale of a 17th draft
> pick instead of the guaranteed salary of a 7th.
>
> --
> DE +49 163 286 6163
> UK +44 794 244 4444

Well, the difference between the 7th and 17th pick is approximately
$965,000, so that wouldn't be a good reason to move down 10 spots.
Plus the amount pales in comparison to the cap space that Maggette
($8M) and Brand ($16M) occupy.

Outside of Chris Kaman, we're looking at a complete overhaul in roster
if both Corey and Elton opt out of their contracts in the next few
months. Maggette has already stated he wants out, so they're probably
going to be looking to the draft to replace him. Joe Alexander sounds
good.

Out of all the teams looking for a new point guard, I think Clippers
are the most attractive because I like Corey Maggette. If you recall
Shaun Livingston's gruesome injury, I'm even surprised he's been
cleared to play. They've offered him a $6M qualifying offer which is
cheap for a starting point guard and that leaves me to believe they're
not set on him being their full-time starter.

We would be lucky to get a top 10 pick in exchange for TJ Ford. For
example, Phoenix wants a second pick in the first round and they are
saying they'd have to give up Boris Diaw or Leanndro Barbosa (two
players that are better than most of the guys on our team).

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:26:05 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, the difference between the 7th and 17th pick is approximately
> $965,000, so that wouldn't be a good reason to move down 10 spots.
> Plus the amount pales in comparison to the cap space that Maggette
> ($8M) and Brand ($16M) occupy.

Sure, but overall Ford, Moon and the 17th pick is pretty good when compared
to Maggette and the 7th.

> Outside of Chris Kaman, we're looking at a complete overhaul in roster
> if both Corey and Elton opt out of their contracts in the next few
> months. Maggette has already stated he wants out, so they're probably
> going to be looking to the draft to replace him.

I thought the Clips expect Al Thornton to be there future.

> Joe Alexander sounds good.

Maybe, but he's a rookie that was projected bottom of the first round as of
a few months ago. He's shot up the rankings like crazy, but who knows if
the clips are believers, the famously frugal franchise may be interested in
a affordable starting line up that includes Thornton, Ford and Moon.

In terms of value, it seems that Ford + Moon + 17th are worth Maggette +
7th.


> Out of all the teams looking for a new point guard, I think Clippers
> are the most attractive because I like Corey Maggette. If you recall
> Shaun Livingston's gruesome injury, I'm even surprised he's been
> cleared to play. They've offered him a $6M qualifying offer which is
> cheap for a starting point guard and that leaves me to believe they're
> not set on him being their full-time starter.

And a quality starting guard like Ford, signed to a reasonable contract
maybe exactly what they are looking for.

>
> We would be lucky to get a top 10 pick in exchange for TJ Ford. For
> example, Phoenix wants a second pick in the first round and they are
> saying they'd have to give up Boris Diaw or Leanndro Barbosa (two
> players that are better than most of the guys on our team).

I'll believe that when I see it happen, but in any case this would suggest
that our 17th is also worth a lot.

This is a deep draft, which means that many teams expect quality players to
be available at lower picks.


--
Quirk <quirk@telekommunisten.net>

http://www.dialstation.com

On Jun 18, 12:12 pm, Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:26:05 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, the difference between the 7th and 17th pick is approximately
> > $965,000, so that wouldn't be a good reason to move down 10 spots.
> > Plus the amount pales in comparison to the cap space that Maggette
> > ($8M) and Brand ($16M) occupy.
>
> Sure, but overall Ford, Moon and the 17th pick is pretty good when compared
> to Maggette and the 7th.

If by "pretty good" you mean "not enough to acquire" then yes, I agree
with you. The 7th is worth more than Ford. Maggette is worth more
than Moon and the 17th pick.

> > Outside of Chris Kaman, we're looking at a complete overhaul in roster
> > if both Corey and Elton opt out of their contracts in the next few
> > months.  Maggette has already stated he wants out, so they're probably
> > going to be looking to the draft to replace him.
>
> I thought the Clips expect Al Thornton to be there future.

Either way they're going to be looking for quality guys. Getting a
top 10 pick is a bonus for them considering they lost Brand to
injuries. This team isn't lottery bound if Brand was were healthy all
year. Remember San Antonio? They lost David Robinson for most of a
season and picked up Tim Duncan.

> > Joe Alexander sounds good.
>
> Maybe, but he's a rookie that was projected bottom of the first round as of
> a few months ago. He's shot up the rankings like crazy, but who knows if
> the clips are believers, the famously frugal franchise may be interested in
> a affordable starting line up that includes Thornton, Ford and Moon.

Joe Alexander has played 3 years total of organized basketball. He's
athletic, sure. So is Joey Graham.

I don't know if Jamario Moon would start for the Clippers when they
have Thornton and Mobley. He's a bench player at best. The fact that
Moon started as many games as he did was more of a reflection of our
SF situation than his own ability.

> And a quality starting guard like Ford, signed to a reasonable contract
> maybe exactly what they are looking for.

Exactly.

> I'll believe that when I see it happen, but in any case this would suggest
> that our 17th is also worth a lot.
>
> This is a deep draft, which means that many teams expect quality players to
> be available at lower picks.

I honestly don't see a deep draft. When I look at the players
available, I see a MoPete draft (as you'll recall that was one of the
worst draft classes in the history of the NBA). I even have my doubts
on Michael Beasley and he's projected #2 overall.

On Jun 18, 12:12 pm, Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:26:05 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, the difference between the 7th and 17th pick is approximately
> > $965,000, so that wouldn't be a good reason to move down 10 spots.
> > Plus the amount pales in comparison to the cap space that Maggette
> > ($8M) and Brand ($16M) occupy.
>
> Sure, but overall Ford, Moon and the 17th pick is pretty good when compared
> to Maggette and the 7th.
>
> > Outside of Chris Kaman, we're looking at a complete overhaul in roster
> > if both Corey and Elton opt out of their contracts in the next few
> > months.  Maggette has already stated he wants out, so they're probably
> > going to be looking to the draft to replace him.
>
> I thought the Clips expect Al Thornton to be there future.
>
> > Joe Alexander sounds good.
>
> Maybe, but he's a rookie that was projected bottom of the first round as of
> a few months ago. He's shot up the rankings like crazy, but who knows if
> the clips are believers, the famously frugal franchise may be interested in
> a affordable starting line up that includes Thornton, Ford and Moon.
>
> In terms of value, it seems that Ford + Moon + 17th are worth Maggette +
> 7th.
>
> > Out of all the teams looking for a new point guard, I think Clippers
> > are the most attractive because I like Corey Maggette.  If you recall
> > Shaun Livingston's gruesome injury, I'm even surprised he's been
> > cleared to play.  They've offered him a $6M qualifying offer which is
> > cheap for a starting point guard and that leaves me to believe they're
> > not set on him being their full-time starter.
>
> And a quality starting guard like Ford, signed to a reasonable contract
> maybe exactly what they are looking for.
>
>
>
> > We would be lucky to get a top 10 pick in exchange for TJ Ford.  For
> > example, Phoenix wants a second pick in the first round and they are
> > saying they'd have to give up Boris Diaw or Leanndro Barbosa (two
> > players that are better than most of the guys on our team).
>
> I'll believe that when I see it happen, but in any case this would suggest
> that our 17th is also worth a lot.
>
> This is a deep draft, which means that many teams expect quality players to
> be available at lower picks.
>
> --
> Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net>
>
> http://www.dialstation.com

How about TJ Ford for Udonis Haslem and Daequan Cook?

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:08:22 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:


> If by "pretty good" you mean "not enough to acquire" then yes, I agree
> with you. The 7th is worth more than Ford. Maggette is worth more
> than Moon and the 17th pick.

As I said, you are probbaly right, but I think this is the kind of trade
that can happen.

>> I thought the Clips expect Al Thornton to be there future.

> Either way they're going to be looking for quality guys.

The are looking for a good combination of quality and contract, Ford and
Moon are that.

> Joe Alexander has played 3 years total of organized basketball. He's
> athletic, sure. So is Joey Graham.

Yes, exactly, that's why they may give up the 7th, this draft is deep and
not too strong at the top, meaning that the guy picked 17th, i.e. Batum,
Rush, etc, may turn out to be as good or better than the guy taken 7th,
i.e. Gordon, Alexander, etc. That's why so many teams are looking for low
picks this year, i.e. Phoenix.

For a team like the Clips, who value value above all, trading down and
landing a guy like Moon in the process may seem attractive.

However for a team like Toronto, a guy like Alexander, if he pans out, is
exactly what we need.

> I don't know if Jamario Moon would start for the Clippers when they
> have Thornton and Mobley. He's a bench player at best. The fact that
> Moon started as many games as he did was more of a reflection of our
> SF situation than his own ability.

Yup, I agree, but I thought Mobley was on the block as well.

> I honestly don't see a deep draft. When I look at the players
> available, I see a MoPete draft (as you'll recall that was one of the
> worst draft classes in the history of the NBA). I even have my doubts
> on Michael Beasley and he's projected #2 overall.

I fully agree, its a deep draft which is weak at the top, it is full of
MoPete caliber players, this draft looks like it will produce many solid
NBAers, but few stars. To me, that is -- in my unqualified and uniformed
estimation -- Alexander looks like the best chance at a star, and CDR looks
like the best chance at a new Mo, solid backup/marginal starter in a pinch
type player.



--
Quirk <quirk@telekommunisten.net>

http://www.dialstation.com
- international calling from your mobile phone.
- no special software to use, just your phone.

On Jun 19, 1:25 pm, Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:08:22 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If by "pretty good" you mean "not enough to acquire" then yes, I agree
> > with you.  The 7th is worth more than Ford.  Maggette is worth more
> > than Moon and the 17th pick.
>
> As I said, you are probbaly right, but I think this is the kind of trade
> that can happen.
>
> >> I thought the Clips expect Al Thornton to be there future.
> > Either way they're going to be looking for quality guys.
>
> The are looking for a good combination of quality and contract, Ford and
> Moon are that.
>
> > Joe Alexander has played 3 years total of organized basketball.  He's
> > athletic, sure.  So is Joey Graham.
>
> Yes, exactly, that's why they may give up the 7th, this draft is deep and
> not too strong at the top, meaning that the guy picked 17th, i.e. Batum,
> Rush, etc, may turn out to be as good or better than the guy taken 7th,
> i.e. Gordon, Alexander, etc. That's why so many teams are looking for low
> picks this year, i.e. Phoenix.
>
> For a team like the Clips, who value value above all, trading down and
> landing a guy like Moon in the process may seem attractive.
>
> However for a team like Toronto, a guy like Alexander, if he pans out, is
> exactly what we need.
>
> > I don't know if Jamario Moon would start for the Clippers when they
> > have Thornton and Mobley.  He's a bench player at best.  The fact that
> > Moon started as many games as he did was more of a reflection of our
> > SF situation than his own ability.
>
> Yup, I agree, but I thought Mobley was on the block as well.
>
> > I honestly don't see a deep draft.  When I look at the players
> > available, I see a MoPete draft (as you'll recall that was one of the
> > worst draft classes in the history of the NBA).  I even have my doubts
> > on Michael Beasley and he's projected #2 overall.
>
> I fully agree, its a deep draft which is weak at the top, it is full of
> MoPete caliber players, this draft looks like it will produce many solid
> NBAers, but few stars. To me, that is -- in my unqualified and uniformed
> estimation -- Alexander looks like the best chance at a star, and CDR looks
> like the best chance at a new Mo, solid backup/marginal starter in a pinch
> type player.
>
> --
> Quirk <qu...@telekommunisten.net>
>
> http://www.dialstation.com
> - international calling from your mobile phone.
> - no special software to use, just your phone.

I think you've misunderstood me a bit.. when I said "not a deep
draft", I meant after the top 6-7 guys, there's nothing left. What I
meant about it being a MoPete draft was that half the guys in the top
20 won't even be in the league any more, or are on their way out.

Looking at the infamous 2000 draft:
16. Hideyet Turkoglu - good nba player
5. Mike Miller - solid nba player
1. Kenyon Martin - solid nba player
8. Jamal Crawford - solid nba player
17. Desmond Mason - solid nba player
21. Mo Pete - solid nba player
23. DeShawn Stevenson - Wizards local idiot
18. Quentin Richardson - solid nba player
2. Stromile Swift - nba journeyman
9. Joel Przybilla - solid bench player
10. Keyon Dooling - 2nd string pg
20. Speedy Claxton - 3rd string pg
12. Etan Thomas - garbage time player
19. Jamaal Magloire - New Jersey water boy
27. Primoz Brezec - Raptor gangsta extraordinaire
7. Chris Mihm - Lakers human cigar
3. Darius Miles - not in the NBA
4. Marcus Fizer - not in the NBA
6. DeMarr Johnson - not in NBA
11. Jerome Moise - not in the NBA
13. Courtney Alexander - not in the NBA
14. Mateen Cleaves - not in the NBA
22. Donnell Harvey - not in the NBA
24. Dalibor Bagaric - not in the NBA
25. Jake Tsakalidis - not in the NBA
26. Mamadou N'diaye - not in the NBA
28. Erick Barkley - not in the NBA
29. Mark Madsden - not in the NBA
15. Jason Collier - dead

The numbers are where they were drafted, but I've ranked them in order
of quality. You can see that after the top 7-8, there's nothing
left.

Not one single superstar, maybe 3-4 all-stars in the first round of
the 2000 draft. 13 players out of 29 are no longer in the NBA. 6 out
of the top 15 players are gone. 4-5 guys will be gone in the next 2
seasons.

Imagine if you were GM and you traded from 7th down to 17th to get one
of the worst starting SFs in 2007 (Jamario Moon, I'm looking at you)
and a point guard one more hit from retirement. I would say you
should probably start looking for a new job.

> > We would be lucky to get a top 10 pick in exchange for TJ Ford.  For
> > example, Phoenix wants a second pick in the first round and they are
> > saying they'd have to give up Boris Diaw or Leanndro Barbosa (two
> > players that are better than most of the guys on our team).
>
> I'll believe that when I see it happen, but in any case this would suggest
> that our 17th is also worth a lot.
>
> This is a deep draft, which means that many teams expect quality players to
> be available at lower picks.

Rumor on Friday and the weekend was Boris Diaw for TJ Ford and the
17th.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:56:16 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebrian@gmail.com> wrote:

> Rumor on Friday and the weekend was Boris Diaw for TJ Ford and the
> 17th.

Bogus rumour.

Phoenix has a guy called Steve Nash, they wont be interested in TJ, not to
mention that Diaw is not worth TJ and the 17th, if this happens it's for
the 17th plus matching salaries.

Cheers.


--
DE +49 163 286 6163
UK +44 794 244 4444

On Jun 23, 9:10 am, Dmytri Kleiner <d...@trick.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:56:16 -0700 (PDT), ebrian <ebr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Rumor on Friday and the weekend was Boris Diaw for TJ Ford and the
> > 17th.
>
> Bogus rumour.
>
> Phoenix has a guy called Steve Nash, they wont be interested in TJ, not to
> mention that Diaw is not worth TJ and the 17th, if this happens it's for
> the 17th plus matching salaries.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> DE +49 163 286 6163
> UK +44 794 244 4444

Stranger things have happened..

One time this team had 2 point guards, and traded their best player
for another point guard!