It took 5 fucking years to end that talk...Geez

Good cool Riz, though I do, to be honest, think he and the Lakers will still
pull it out and win. I'm probably crazy. But if they do, it'll be on the
back of Kobe taking over and scoring, not him being the team man.

If you want some more fodder, check this:
http://www.salon.com/sports/daily/feature/2008/06/10/schilling/index.html

Damn.


"Frank Rizzo" <champ91917@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bd16dc8d-bf1d-4019-84d1-c296b43db54c@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> It took 5 fucking years to end that talk...Geez

And replying to my own top post - forgive me, I'm drunk - but I'm not sure
that the Jordan analogy in the (I think) penultimate paragraph, is fair.
Sure, he ragged on his teammates at times, but it was rare as shit that he
went missing, and even when he did his ragging always seemed to be
psychologically motivated. He knew to piss Scottie off enough to get him
firing, to pay out the role players enough as to have them pumped. Maybe
that's my superficial, sycophantic view... Correct me if I'm wrong.

I love Kobe. But he ain't MJ.


"Brad" <bradlacey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:484ecdd9@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Good cool Riz, though I do, to be honest, think he and the Lakers will
> still pull it out and win. I'm probably crazy. But if they do, it'll be on
> the back of Kobe taking over and scoring, not him being the team man.
>
> If you want some more fodder, check this:
> http://www.salon.com/sports/daily/feature/2008/06/10/schilling/index.html
>
> Damn.
>
>
> "Frank Rizzo" <champ91917@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bd16dc8d-bf1d-4019-84d1-c296b43db54c@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>> It took 5 fucking years to end that talk...Geez
>
>

On Jun 10, 11:57 am, "Brad" <bradla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And replying to my own top post - forgive me, I'm drunk - but I'm not sure
> that the Jordan analogy in the (I think) penultimate paragraph, is fair.
> Sure, he ragged on his teammates at times, but it was rare as shit that he
> went missing, and even when he did his ragging always seemed to be
> psychologically motivated. He knew to piss Scottie off enough to get him
> firing, to pay out the role players enough as to have them pumped. Maybe
> that's my superficial, sycophantic view... Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> I love Kobe. But he ain't MJ.
>
> "Brad" <bradla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:484ecdd9@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> > Good cool Riz, though I do, to be honest, think he and the Lakers will
> > still pull it out and win. I'm probably crazy. But if they do, it'll be on
> > the back of Kobe taking over and scoring, not him being the team man.
>
> > If you want some more fodder, check this:
> >http://www.salon.com/sports/daily/feature/2008/06/10/schilling/index....
>
> > Damn.
>
> > "Frank Rizzo" <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:bd16dc8d-bf1d-4019-84d1-c296b43db54c@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> >> It took 5 fucking years to end that talk...Geez

He didn't rag on teammates that played smart and played their asses
off. He ragged on guys that sucked or were weak and not warriors.

Brad wrote:
> And replying to my own top post - forgive me, I'm drunk - but I'm not
> sure that the Jordan analogy in the (I think) penultimate paragraph,
> is fair. Sure, he ragged on his teammates at times, but it was rare
> as shit that he went missing, and even when he did his ragging always
> seemed to be psychologically motivated. He knew to piss Scottie off
> enough to get him firing, to pay out the role players enough as to
> have them pumped. Maybe that's my superficial, sycophantic view...
> Correct me if I'm wrong.


Kerr on how Pippen and Jordan went at it in practice:

Describing the scene is difficult, maybe because it defies words. Whether
it
was a five-on-five or one-on-one game, the two were so competitive that
Jackson often had to stop them because he feared someone would get hurt.

They did not fight; they just wanted to win, were competitive. Those
meaningless competitions in practice were that important to Jordan and
Pippen.

"They were going so hard," Kerr said, "but to me, that's one of the reasons
the Bulls were so good."
It was that toughness, intensity. The Blazers are Kerr's sixth team, and he
won a championship in San Antonio. But nothing compares to his experience
with the Bulls.

No group worked harder. And that ethic stemmed from the two best players,
who often had to be stopped by their coach.
====

Kerr also said in an interview I saw that Jackson's 'zen' was just
smoke...that it was actually coaching basics and doing mundane drills that
other teams do not bother with and players feel they left behind in High
School that was different. And Jordan and Pippen buying into that. Kerr said
(quote from my memory) "He would come into the practice facility and see the
best two players in the world there were not just there early but spending
20 minutes doing 2 handed chest passes."

===

And on the difference in leadership a Jackson quote:

About why he wanted so badly to bring Pippen
to the Lakers, Jackson said:
"I thought it was meant to be.
On the Bulls he was probably the player most
liked by the others. He mingled. He could
bring out the best in the players and commu-
nicate the best. Leadership, real leadership,
is one of his strengths. Everybody would say
Michael is a great leader. He leads by
example, by rebuke, by harsh words. Scottie's
leadership was equally dominant, but it's a
leadership of patting the back, support." (SI)

==========

> I love Kobe. But he ain't MJ.

One guy allowed to compare...

Tex Winter Compares Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-22-143/Tex-Winter-Compares-Kobe...
March 29, 2007 1:59 PM


A few years back, the Lakers coaching staff concluded Bryant and Jordan were
much alike, almost eerie, in fact, when it came to the alpha male qualities
of
their competitive natures.


Kobe and Michael were ruthless when it came to winning, everyone agreed.


And their skills were similar.


Except Michael's hands were larger.


The major difference between the two came with college experience. Jordan
had
played in a basketball system for Dean Smith at North Carolina, thus he was
better prepared to play within a team concept.


Winter says they're both very much alike:


"They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both
have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but
Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if
Kobe
is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."


Observers like to point out that Jordan played on a Chicago Bulls team with
no
great center, but Winter always countered that Jordan was a great post-up
player and in essence was the premier post weapon of his time.


Bryant himself came into the NBA with amazingly good post skills, but there
was
never room for him to play in the post with Shaquille O'Neal occupying the
lane
during their years together with the Lakers.


In a lot of ways, Bryant is Jordan's equal as a post player, Winter said,
except for one critical element. "What's happened to Kobe and his post
play -
and he is a great post player - is that he's catching the ball just out of
the
lane and the defenders are forcing him out toward the wing."


As a result of getting pushed out of the post, Winter worries that Bryant
may
rely too heavily on three-pointers, which Bryant often shoots against
intense
pressure.


Winter also admits that Bryant abandons aspects of the triangle offense with
some regularity. But that's not Winter's main complaint with the guard:


"I'd like to see him play better defense, " Winter said, adding that he had
addressed the issue recently with Bryant but didn't come away with the idea
that Bryant was intent on changing his approach.


Because the Lakers need so much of his effort at the offensive end, Bryant
has
adopted a save-energy plan on the defensive end, Winter said. "He's
basically
playing a lot of one-man zone. He's doing a lot of switching, zoning up,
trying to come up with the interception.

(that quote was last year when Kobe was averaging 35 ppg, this year he was
back on the all nba defensive team.)

Winter never really says who's better. But to me, at this stage that's a
victory for the legacy of Kobe Bryant. Winter is tough, honest, and as good
an
authority on this topic as we'll ever get. If he thinks it's a debate worth
having, that's really something. Not all that long ago only die-hard Laker
fans were seriously making the case that Bryant might be Jordan's equal.

On Jun 11, 1:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:


I'd like to see him address the issue when Jerry Buss is not signing
his paychecks. Until then, he has a lot of reasons to lobby for Kobe
being an equal.

On Jun 11, 1:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 11, 1:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd like to see him address the issue when Jerry Buss is not signing
> his paychecks. Until then, he has a lot of reasons to lobby for Kobe
> being an equal.

Tex Winter that is.

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Jun 11, 1:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 11, 1:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to see him address the issue when Jerry Buss is not signing
>> his paychecks. Until then, he has a lot of reasons to lobby for Kobe
>> being an equal.
>
> Tex Winter that is.

I bet you are right.....likely Tex would not want to mess up his next
contract...he must be worried what will happen to his coaching career when
Phil retires...after all Tex is still 3 or 4 years short of his 90th
birthday.... ;-)

=============
More fun stuff on Tex from Lazenby that followed that blog article on the
Kobe/MJ thing

Winter offered some opinions on my recent columns.
Last week I wrote in "Blood In The Water" that Phil Jackson had begun
displaying the kind of respect for Bryant that he once offered only to
Jordan.
Winter agreed with that assessment: "I think Phil is appreciative of what
Kobe is and what he can do for a team. He's given him a lot more green light
recently than he would ordinarily."
Asked if Bryant now has the same kind of green light that Jordan once
enjoyed, Winter replied: "Pretty much."

Another of my recent columns said Bryant's four-game streak of 50-point
games was more impressive than Wilt Chamberlain's seven-game streak in
1961-62. Winter again agreed: "It is more impressive. Wilt's streak was more
about gimmickry that season. Kobe's gotten these points against tough
competition (Winter thinks just about all NBA team offer superior
competition in this age, including the Memphis Grizzlies), which is
something else Wilt didn't face, not consistently."
Other than Bill Russell there weren't many quality big men in an NBA that
featured fewer than a dozen teams, Winter offered. "He just out-manned most
of the centers in those days.

"Kobe is not a 7-foot-1 giant. He's a normal-sized 2 or 3 man. For him to go
off on the kind of scoring tear that he did is remarkable. It was necessary
for this team to win five straight games. Without it, I doubt seriously if
we could have won."

Winter, of course, felt compelled to mention that his Kansas State team in
1958 ended Chamberlain's season early at the University of Kansas. Winter's
State team also beat Chamberlain and the Jayhawks on their own floor.
"When Kansas got Wilt as a recruit, everyone just assumed they'd win three
straight championships," he recalled.
After losing to UNC in triple overtime in the 1957 NCAA championship game as
a sophomore, Wilt's team lost to the Winter coached team in the playoffs
his junior year. Frustrated, Chamberlain left college ball to tour with the
Harlem Globetrotters during his senior season and joined the NBA a year
later, in 1960.


--
Laurel T
"In my prime I could have handled
Michael Jordan. Of course,
he would be only 12 years old."
Jerry Sloan

On Jun 10, 2:59 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> He didn't rag on teammates that played smart and played their asses
> off. He ragged on guys that sucked or were weak and not warriors.

One of my favorite parts in some book about the first Bulls
championship teams was Jordan getting after Horace Grant in practice,
really ragging him, and Horace coming back with an ineffectual, almost
whiny "Fuck you MJ!".

The flipside is Jordan returning to the Bulls to find Kerr in the
backcourt, assuming him to be a pussy, and going after him hard in
practice. (Of coure he had no idea how Kerr's father had died.) Kerr
is intimidated for a while but finally stands up for himself and the
two fight. Kerr's nose is bloodied. Jordan apologized repeatedly and
after that never went after Kerr again.

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> It took 5 fucking years to end that talk...Geez


As for this part...

http://lakernoise.com/2007/03/29/tex-on-kobe-vs-mj/


Today, a lot of fans consider the debate beneath themselves, because it's
"so nineties."
Yeah, right.
I wrote a little column last week about how Bryant has finally earned the
kind of respect from Phil Jackson that the coach once accorded Jordan.
Henry Abbott's megafun ESPN blog, True Hoop, linked to the column and it
elicited a staggering 258 (and counting) comments from jacked-up readers and
posters in a raging debate over the merits of MJ or Kobe. Those figures don't
include the thousands of readers quietly seething over the issue, readers
who simply don't vent in a blog.

Some readers spew that it's the stupid media causing all this, that it's
trite to compare the two, that there is no comparison.
Poppycock.
Such debates are the reason we follow sports. They're just an extension of
the competition. In fact, they're the essence of NBA lore.
Russell vs. Wilt.
West vs. Oscar.
Bird vs. Magic.
Hakeem vs. Patrick.
Mention any one of those and it sets fans to woofing.
Even 85-year-old Tex Winter likes to jump in the fray.

On Jun 11, 6:38 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 2:59 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > He didn't rag on teammates that played smart and played their asses
> > off. He ragged on guys that sucked or were weak and not warriors.
>
> One of my favorite parts in some book about the first Bulls
> championship teams was Jordan getting after Horace Grant in practice,
> really ragging him, and Horace coming back with an ineffectual, almost
> whiny "Fuck you MJ!".
>
> The flipside is Jordan returning to the Bulls to find Kerr in the
> backcourt, assuming him to be a pussy, and going after him hard in
> practice. (Of coure he had no idea how Kerr's father had died.) Kerr
> is intimidated for a while but finally stands up for himself and the
> two fight. Kerr's nose is bloodied. Jordan apologized repeatedly and
> after that never went after Kerr again.

Kerr is a man. Great story. Hadn't heard it.

On Jun 11, 6:41 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > It took 5 fucking years to end that talk...Geez
>
> As for this part...
>
> http://lakernoise.com/2007/03/29/tex-on-kobe-vs-mj/
>
> Today, a lot of fans consider the debate beneath themselves, because it's
> "so nineties."
> Yeah, right.
> I wrote a little column last week about how Bryant has finally earned the
> kind of respect from Phil Jackson that the coach once accorded Jordan.
> Henry Abbott's megafun ESPN blog, True Hoop, linked to the column and it
> elicited a staggering 258 (and counting) comments from jacked-up readers and
> posters in a raging debate over the merits of MJ or Kobe. Those figures don't
> include the thousands of readers quietly seething over the issue, readers
> who simply don't vent in a blog.
>
> Some readers spew that it's the stupid media causing all this, that it's
> trite to compare the two, that there is no comparison.
> Poppycock.
> Such debates are the reason we follow sports. They're just an extension of
> the competition. In fact, they're the essence of NBA lore.
> Russell vs. Wilt.
> West vs. Oscar.
> Bird vs. Magic.
> Hakeem vs. Patrick.
> Mention any one of those and it sets fans to woofing.
> Even 85-year-old Tex Winter likes to jump in the fray.

Well written right there.

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Jun 11, 6:41 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Rizzo wrote:
>>> It took 5 fucking years to end that talk...Geez
>>
>> As for this part...
>>
>> http://lakernoise.com/2007/03/29/tex-on-kobe-vs-mj/
>>
>> Today, a lot of fans consider the debate beneath themselves,
>> because it's "so nineties."
>> Yeah, right.
>> I wrote a little column last week about how Bryant has finally
>> earned the kind of respect from Phil Jackson that the coach once
>> accorded Jordan.
>> Henry Abbott's megafun ESPN blog, True Hoop, linked to the column
>> and it elicited a staggering 258 (and counting) comments from
>> jacked-up readers and posters in a raging debate over the merits of
>> MJ or Kobe. Those figures don't include the thousands of readers
>> quietly seething over the issue, readers who simply don't vent in a
>> blog.
>>
>> Some readers spew that it's the stupid media causing all this, that
>> it's trite to compare the two, that there is no comparison.
>> Poppycock.
>> Such debates are the reason we follow sports. They're just an
>> extension of the competition. In fact, they're the essence of NBA
>> lore.
>> Russell vs. Wilt.
>> West vs. Oscar.
>> Bird vs. Magic.
>> Hakeem vs. Patrick.
>> Mention any one of those and it sets fans to woofing.
>> Even 85-year-old Tex Winter likes to jump in the fray.
>
> Well written right there.

Should be, the guy sells a lot of books...

On Jun 11, 7:24 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 11, 6:38 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The flipside is Jordan returning to the Bulls to find Kerr in the
> > backcourt, assuming him to be a pussy, and going after him hard in
> > practice. (Of coure he had no idea how Kerr's father had died.) Kerr
> > is intimidated for a while but finally stands up for himself and the
> > two fight. Kerr's nose is bloodied. Jordan apologized repeatedly and
> > after that never went after Kerr again.
>
> Kerr is a man. Great story. Hadn't heard it.

Here's a video that's on point; it includes Jordan describing the Kerr
incident:
http://superpunch.blogspot.com/2007/10/video-michael-jordan-discusses-time-he.html

On Jun 12, 9:06 am, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 11, 7:24 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 11, 6:38 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The flipside is Jordan returning to the Bulls to find Kerr in the
> > > backcourt, assuming him to be a pussy, and going after him hard in
> > > practice. (Of coure he had no idea how Kerr's father had died.) Kerr
> > > is intimidated for a while but finally stands up for himself and the
> > > two fight. Kerr's nose is bloodied. Jordan apologized repeatedly and
> > > after that never went after Kerr again.
>
> > Kerr is a man. Great story. Hadn't heard it.
>
> Here's a video that's on point; it includes Jordan describing the Kerr
> incident:
> http://superpunch.blogspot.com/2007/10/video-michael-jordan-discusses...

Are you back here? Beautiful day today huh?

On Jun 12, 2:47 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Are you [Sashank] back here?  Beautiful day today huh?

Yes, beautiful. Just as long as we don't get any more fires started
near my house. (This one is nice and far away, but the last one
started just a few miles away, and it was initially reported as being
basically on top of my house)

On Jun 12, 3:15 pm, ImLittleJon <ImLittle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2:47 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you [Sashank] back here? Beautiful day today huh?

Yeah, in Palo Alto today. Just friggin' gorgeous. I was walking with a
friend/colleague who's visiting from Seattle. Last week I was up there
for a meeting. It was rainy and cold the whole time. Just depressing.
I asked her how she liked the weather here. She said it was perfect. I
told her today's the best we've seen all year, but yeah, it's perfect.

> Yes, beautiful. Just as long as we don't get any more fires started
> near my house. (This one is nice and far away, but the last one
> started just a few miles away, and it was initially reported as being
> basically on top of my house)

The BPL championship is sorta like the Tiki idol in that Brady Bunch
episode set in Hawaii. Think about it. Granville left the USENET,
Chris has been arrested for amorously stalking Condi Rice, and I've
been exiled to Minneapolis. You might want to double your homeowner's.

On Jun 12, 3:54 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Chris has been arrested for amorously stalking Condi Rice,

Argh. I should have said "Chris has been arrested for killing Condi
Rice's dog,"

There's a fine line between comedy and COMEDY. The latter rarely
involves adverbs.

"sv0f" <varmasa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7349428-a44a-42c8-87ed-1cad9ec1cfef@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 12, 3:54 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Chris has been arrested for amorously stalking Condi Rice,
>
> Argh. I should have said "Chris has been arrested for killing Condi
> Rice's dog,"
>
> There's a fine line between comedy and COMEDY. The latter rarely
> involves adverbs.

Hey, I laughed :)

"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6barpbF393m3aU1@mid.individual.net...
> Brad wrote:
>> And replying to my own top post - forgive me, I'm drunk - but I'm not
>> sure that the Jordan analogy in the (I think) penultimate paragraph,
>> is fair. Sure, he ragged on his teammates at times, but it was rare
>> as shit that he went missing, and even when he did his ragging always
>> seemed to be psychologically motivated. He knew to piss Scottie off
>> enough to get him firing, to pay out the role players enough as to
>> have them pumped. Maybe that's my superficial, sycophantic view...
>> Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>
> Kerr on how Pippen and Jordan went at it in practice:
>
> Describing the scene is difficult, maybe because it defies words. Whether
> it
> was a five-on-five or one-on-one game, the two were so competitive that
> Jackson often had to stop them because he feared someone would get hurt.
>
> They did not fight; they just wanted to win, were competitive. Those
> meaningless competitions in practice were that important to Jordan and
> Pippen.
>
> "They were going so hard," Kerr said, "but to me, that's one of the
> reasons
> the Bulls were so good."
> It was that toughness, intensity. The Blazers are Kerr's sixth team, and
> he
> won a championship in San Antonio. But nothing compares to his experience
> with the Bulls.
>
> No group worked harder. And that ethic stemmed from the two best players,
> who often had to be stopped by their coach.

That's exactly what you want in a sports team.

On Jun 12, 3:15 pm, ImLittleJon <ImLittle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2:47 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you [Sashank] back here? Beautiful day today huh?
>
> Yes, beautiful. Just as long as we don't get any more fires started
> near my house. (This one is nice and far away, but the last one
> started just a few miles away, and it was initially reported as being
> basically on top of my house)

Littlejon Dude, are you out on the West Coast?

On Jun 12, 3:54 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 3:15 pm, ImLittleJon <ImLittle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 12, 2:47 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Are you [Sashank] back here? Beautiful day today huh?
>
> Yeah, in Palo Alto today. Just friggin' gorgeous. I was walking with a
> friend/colleague who's visiting from Seattle. Last week I was up there
> for a meeting. It was rainy and cold the whole time. Just depressing.
> I asked her how she liked the weather here. She said it was perfect. I
> told her today's the best we've seen all year, but yeah, it's perfect.
>
> > Yes, beautiful. Just as long as we don't get any more fires started
> > near my house. (This one is nice and far away, but the last one
> > started just a few miles away, and it was initially reported as being
> > basically on top of my house)
>
> The BPL championship is sorta like the Tiki idol in that Brady Bunch
> episode set in Hawaii. Think about it. Granville left the USENET,
> Chris has been arrested for amorously stalking Condi Rice, and I've
> been exiled to Minneapolis. You might want to double your homeowner's.

Rizzo wins BPL11 by default/attrition. Can't wait.

On Jun 12, 5:55 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Littlejon  Dude, are you out on the West Coast?

Yep. I'm up in the Santa Cruz mountains. If you take the northern
tip of the Summit Fire and travel due west about 5 miles, that's
pretty much where I am.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/google/2008_05_28_a_web_summit.kmz

Got a couple of acres, with goats and chickens and now honeybees.

On Jun 12, 9:00 pm, ImLittleJon <ImLittle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 5:55 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Littlejon Dude, are you out on the West Coast?
>
> Yep. I'm up in the Santa Cruz mountains. If you take the northern
> tip of the Summit Fire and travel due west about 5 miles, that's
> pretty much where I am.
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/go...
>
> Got a couple of acres, with goats and chickens and now honeybees.

If the big one hits and everything West of the San Andreas fault
slides into the Pacific, will your's become beachfront property?

Just wondering,
Clark

On Jun 12, 9:00 pm, ImLittleJon <ImLittle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 5:55 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Littlejon Dude, are you out on the West Coast?
>
> Yep. I'm up in the Santa Cruz mountains. If you take the northern
> tip of the Summit Fire and travel due west about 5 miles, that's
> pretty much where I am.
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/go...
>
> Got a couple of acres, with goats and chickens and now honeybees.

All this time I thought you were out in Chitown. We're practically
neighbors. Have family in Capitola. My nephew will be going to Soquel
High. I was down there the weekend of the fire (the Summit fire).
Fire people did an unbelievable job considering the terrain. Got a
couple buddies in local FD but they didn't have to go down there.
Anyhow, we should grab a beer, or at least some Santa Cruz Sourdough
and chowder.

On Jun 12, 9:33 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 12, 9:00 pm, ImLittleJon <ImLittle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 12, 5:55 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Littlejon Dude, are you out on the West Coast?
>
> > Yep. I'm up in the Santa Cruz mountains. If you take the northern
> > tip of the Summit Fire and travel due west about 5 miles, that's
> > pretty much where I am.
>
> >http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/go...
>
> > Got a couple of acres, with goats and chickens and now honeybees.
>
> If the big one hits and everything West of the San Andreas fault
> slides into the Pacific, will your's become beachfront property?
>
> Just wondering,
> Clark

Littlejon will be in the Ocean . Fault runs right through where he's
at pretty much. That's what built the Santa Cruz mountains over the
last bazillion years. It's a beatufiul area where he lives.

http://tinyurl.com/3ekswj


And he's 10 to 20 minutes from this: http://tinyurl.com/48fmx3

An hour from this: http://tinyurl.com/3ul7nw

Or an hour from this: http://tinyurl.com/5w7j8d Or this:
http://tinyurl.com/5w7j8d

Or a half day from this: http://tinyurl.com/3llutc


All in all, it is hard to beat where littlejon lives, even with the
big quake. Cheers. Enjoy the fresh eggs.

On Jun 12, 9:33 pm, sv0f <varm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the big one hits and everything West of the San Andreas fault
> slides into the Pacific, will your's become beachfront property?
>
> Just wondering,
> Clark

Some nice touches there, Sashank. The apostrophe was de rigour, but I
especially liked the capitalization of the w.

The epicenter of the 89 Loma Prieta quake was also about 5 miles away
from my house, but SE instead of due E.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.04,-121.88&spn=0.3,0.3&q=37.04,-121.88

I've heard the most likely location for the next Big One is the
Hayward Fault, so you might be getting out just in time. :-)

On Jun 12, 10:01 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Anyhow, we should grab a beer, or at least some Santa Cruz Sourdough
> and chowder.

Yeah. It would be sad to let Sashank leave the area without all
getting together at least once. How long are you here for, Sashank?

ImLittleJon wrote:
> On Jun 12, 5:55 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Littlejon Dude, are you out on the West Coast?
>
> Yep. I'm up in the Santa Cruz mountains. If you take the northern
> tip of the Summit Fire and travel due west about 5 miles, that's
> pretty much where I am.

I am on the Southern Oregon coast.
They are removing the rest of the wreckage of the New Carrissa fron the surf
line. It is about a mile directly west of me and I can see the top of the
barge's crane over the top of the dunes on the coos river bar from here.

http://www.theworldphotos.com/gallery/view/99/The_end_of_the_New_Carissa


>
> Got a couple of acres, with goats and chickens and now honeybees.

What breed of goats? Pets, show, brush removal, milk or meat?


--
Laurel T
"If you can't say anything nice, sit next to me."
Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

ImLittleJon wrote:
> On Jun 12, 5:55 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Littlejon Dude, are you out on the West Coast?
>
> Yep. I'm up in the Santa Cruz mountains. If you take the northern
> tip of the Summit Fire and travel due west about 5 miles, that's
> pretty much where I am.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope I'm thinking of the right place, but I remember a Santa Cruz
Winery that was away from the ocean and had a rocky soil but produced
a dynamite Pinor Noir. You could put it in the basement way in the
back for twenty years and it would get better every year. Is that
near you?


Regards,


Kent Feiler
www.KentFeiler.com

On Jun 14, 7:11 am, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What breed of goats?   Pets, show, brush removal, milk or meat?

Mostly Nubian, with a little Boer or French Alpine mixed in, depending
on which goat. Not show or meat. Primarily pets and milk, plus the
infamous building of character for my kids. My 9-year-old daughter
does most of the work of taking care of them, including the majority
of the milking. They do eat some poison oak for us, but their area is
mostly grass, so it's more like saving me from having to mow it than
brush removal.

On Jun 14, 6:33 pm, Kent Feiler <z...@zzzz.com> wrote:
> I hope I'm thinking of the right place, but I remember a Santa Cruz
> Winery that was away from the ocean and had a rocky soil but produced
> a dynamite Pinor Noir. You could put it in the basement way in the
> back for twenty years and it would get better every year.  Is that
> near you?

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), that
describes about 20 vineyards up here. We actually have a couple of
different friends who make their own Pinot, but they are not bonded to
sell it, so we can buy a case from them for like half off what it
would be. Anyway, David Bruce is pretty well known for their Pinots,
so that would be my first guess, but there are lots of others with
great Pinots.

ImLittleJon wrote:
> On Jun 14, 7:11 am, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> What breed of goats? Pets, show, brush removal, milk or meat?
>
> Mostly Nubian, with a little Boer or French Alpine mixed in, depending
> on which goat.

The Nubian/Boar crosses are becoming popular.
I like the Pygora for pets, they were developed here in Oregon I like the
look and temperment.
One of my friends have them.

> Not show or meat. Primarily pets and milk, plus the
> infamous building of character for my kids. My 9-year-old daughter
> does most of the work of taking care of them, including the majority
> of the milking. They do eat some poison oak for us, but their area is
> mostly grass, so it's more like saving me from having to mow it than
> brush removal.

That is great. Sort of how I grew up except with dairy calves and mostly
horses in 4-H clubs.


--
Laurel T
Terraholm Border Terriers
www.terraholm.com

On Jun 15, 9:14 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Nubian/Boar crosses are becoming popular.

Although I've heard the Boer is a meat goat, the one we have with Boer
blood produces way more milk for us than the one with French Alpine,
which is supposed to be a dairy goat. Plus, the one with Boer is
friendlier, gentler, and less trouble in terms of getting through
fencing at my fruit trees.

> I like the Pygora for pets, they were developed here in Oregon I like the
> look and temperment.
> One of my friends have them.

They look cute, for sure. I could imagine my wife getting into the
whole spinning/weaving thing if we had them. So under no
circumstances are you allowed to mention this idea to her! :-)

> That is great. Sort of how I grew up except with dairy calves and mostly
> horses in 4-H clubs.

My daughter is absolutely horse crazy. Has been since birth. Her
first word was "neigh". Right now, she's taking riding lessons once a
week, but once my wife goes back to work full time, I think we're
going to have a hard time avoiding buying her a horse. I don't really
want it on our property, though. The goat area is on a slope above
our house, and I think a horse would trample the grass and cause
erosion. We have a flat area, but it's not fenced in, and that's
where we play soccer, where the play structure is, and whatnot. So I
think we'll need to board it, which is $$$$. Hopefully, it will make
it so she doesn't have any time to get into any trouble as a
teenager. :-)

On Jun 11, 4:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Brad wrote:
> > And replying to my own top post - forgive me, I'm drunk - but I'm not
> > sure that the Jordan analogy in the (I think) penultimate paragraph,
> > is fair. Sure, he ragged on his teammates at times, but it was rare
> > as shit that he went missing, and even when he did his ragging always
> > seemed to be psychologically motivated. He knew to piss Scottie off
> > enough to get him firing, to pay out the role players enough as to
> > have them pumped. Maybe that's my superficial, sycophantic view...
> > Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Kerr on how Pippen and Jordan went at it in practice:
>
> Describing the scene is difficult, maybe because it defies words. Whether
> it
> was a five-on-five or one-on-one game, the two were so competitive that
> Jackson often had to stop them because he feared someone would get hurt.
>
> They did not fight; they just wanted to win, were competitive. Those
> meaningless competitions in practice were that important to Jordan and
> Pippen.
>
> "They were going so hard," Kerr said, "but to me, that's one of the reasons
> the Bulls were so good."
> It was that toughness, intensity. The Blazers are Kerr's sixth team, and he
> won a championship in San Antonio. But nothing compares to his experience
> with the Bulls.
>
> No group worked harder. And that ethic stemmed from the two best players,
> who often had to be stopped by their coach.
> ====
>
> Kerr also said in an interview I saw that Jackson's 'zen' was just
> smoke...that it was actually coaching basics and doing mundane drills that
> other teams do not bother with and players feel they left behind in High
> School that was different. And Jordan and Pippen buying into that. Kerr said
> (quote from my memory) "He would come into the practice facility and see the
> best two players in the world there were not just there early but spending
> 20 minutes doing 2 handed chest passes."
>
> ===
>
> And on the difference in leadership a Jackson quote:
>
> About why he wanted so badly to bring Pippen
> to the Lakers, Jackson said:
> "I thought it was meant to be.
> On the Bulls he was probably the player most
> liked by the others. He mingled. He could
> bring out the best in the players and commu-
> nicate the best. Leadership, real leadership,
> is one of his strengths. Everybody would say
> Michael is a great leader. He leads by
> example, by rebuke, by harsh words. Scottie's
> leadership was equally dominant, but it's a
> leadership of patting the back, support." (SI)
>
> ==========
>
> > I love Kobe. But he ain't MJ.
>
> One guy allowed to compare...
>
> Tex Winter Compares Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordanhttp://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-22-143/Tex-Winter-Compares-Kobe...
> March 29, 2007 1:59 PM
>
> A few years back, the Lakers coaching staff concluded Bryant and Jordan were
> much alike, almost eerie, in fact, when it came to the alpha male qualities
> of
> their competitive natures.
>
> Kobe and Michael were ruthless when it came to winning, everyone agreed.
>
> And their skills were similar.
>
> Except Michael's hands were larger.
>
> The major difference between the two came with college experience. Jordan
> had
> played in a basketball system for Dean Smith at North Carolina, thus he was
> better prepared to play within a team concept.
>
> Winter says they're both very much alike:
>
> "They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both
> have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter, but
> Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if
> Kobe
> is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."
>
> Observers like to point out that Jordan played on a Chicago Bulls team with
> no
> great center, but Winter always countered that Jordan was a great post-up
> player and in essence was the premier post weapon of his time.
>
> Bryant himself came into the NBA with amazingly good post skills, but there
> was
> never room for him to play in the post with Shaquille O'Neal occupying the
> lane
> during their years together with the Lakers.
>
> In a lot of ways, Bryant is Jordan's equal as a post player, Winter said,
> except for one critical element. "What's happened to Kobe and his post
> play -
> and he is a great post player - is that he's catching the ball just out of
> the
> lane and the defenders are forcing him out toward the wing."
>
> As a result of getting pushed out of the post, Winter worries that Bryant
> may
> rely too heavily on three-pointers, which Bryant often shoots against
> intense
> pressure.
>
> Winter also admits that Bryant abandons aspects of the triangle offense with
> some regularity. But that's not Winter's main complaint with the guard:
>
> "I'd like to see him play better defense, " Winter said, adding that he had
> addressed the issue recently with Bryant but didn't come away with the idea
> that Bryant was intent on changing his approach.
>
> Because the Lakers need so much of his effort at the offensive end, Bryant
> has
> adopted a save-energy plan on the defensive end, Winter said. "He's
> basically
> playing a lot of one-man zone. He's doing a lot of switching, zoning up,
> trying to come up with the interception.
>
> (that quote was last year when Kobe was averaging 35 ppg, this year he was
> back on the all nba defensive team.)
>
> Winter never really says who's better. But to me, at this stage that's a
> victory for the legacy of Kobe Bryant. Winter is tough, honest, and as good
> an
> authority on this topic as we'll ever get. If he thinks it's a debate worth
> having, that's really something. Not all that long ago only die-hard Laker
> fans were seriously making the case that Bryant might be Jordan's equal.

This was the great competition that nobody saw. Pippen was the best
possible player to defend Jordan, and we never saw it in a game.

How many titles does Jordan win if not for Olden Polynice? Anyone?

cowznofsky wrote:
> On Jun 11, 4:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> This was the great competition that nobody saw. Pippen was the best
> possible player to defend Jordan, and we never saw it in a game.

Once when they were old...
I have the tape...

--
Laurel T
"In my prime I could have handled
Michael Jordan. Of course,
he would be only 12 years old."
Jerry Sloan

Terraholm wrote:
> cowznofsky wrote:
>> On Jun 11, 4:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This was the great competition that nobody saw. Pippen was the best
>> possible player to defend Jordan, and we never saw it in a game.
>
> Once when they were old...
> I have the tape...
>

But who really cares once they were both beyond their primes?

Frank Sereno wrote:
> Terraholm wrote:
>> cowznofsky wrote:
>>> On Jun 11, 4:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> This was the great competition that nobody saw. Pippen was the best
>>> possible player to defend Jordan, and we never saw it in a game.
>>
>> Once when they were old...
>> I have the tape...
>>
>
> But who really cares once they were both beyond their primes?

No one, just pointing out their was an exception.
But they had a great time with it and their competitive egos were still
intact.

No Pippen but this Shirts/Skins game is interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rD424rjpyQ

(they should have put Reggie on the shirts team)

Terraholm wrote:
> Frank Sereno wrote:
>> Terraholm wrote:
>>> cowznofsky wrote:
>>>> On Jun 11, 4:43 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> This was the great competition that nobody saw. Pippen was the best
>>>> possible player to defend Jordan, and we never saw it in a game.
>>> Once when they were old...
>>> I have the tape...
>>>
>> But who really cares once they were both beyond their primes?
>
> No one, just pointing out their was an exception.
> But they had a great time with it and their competitive egos were still
> intact.
>
> No Pippen but this Shirts/Skins game is interesting.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rD424rjpyQ
>
> (they should have put Reggie on the shirts team)
>
>

But back to the original thread which was MJ or Kobe. At least
MJ never lost the ultimate game in The Finals by more than 30
points. Oh wait, he never lost the final game of The Finals.

Anyway, anyone remember the largest margin of defeat for a Bulls
team in The Finals?

Frank Sereno wrote:


>
> Anyway, anyone remember the largest margin of defeat for a Bulls
> team in The Finals?

107 to 86 Vs Seattle -21

MJ 6-19 (11 -13 FTs) for 23 pts 2 rbs 3 asts
Pip 4-17 (including 1-8 on 3s) 9 pts 11 rbs 8 asts

Payton 7-15 (including 3-6 on 3s) 21 pts 3 rbs 11 asts
Kemp 12-17 25 pts 11 rbs 3 asts

Well ...you asked...


--
Laurel T
"In my prime I could have handled
Michael Jordan. Of course,
he would be only 12 years old."
Jerry Sloan

On Jun 21, 9:08 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Sereno wrote:
>
> > Anyway, anyone remember the largest margin of defeat for a Bulls
> > team in The Finals?
>
> 107 to 86 Vs Seattle -21
>
> MJ 6-19 (11 -13 FTs) for 23 pts 2 rbs 3 asts
> Pip 4-17 (including 1-8 on 3s) 9 pts 11 rbs 8 asts
>
> Payton 7-15 (including 3-6 on 3s) 21 pts 3 rbs 11 asts
> Kemp 12-17 25 pts 11 rbs 3 asts
>
> Well ...you asked...
>
> --
> Laurel T
> "In my prime I could have handled
> Michael Jordan. Of course,
> he would be only 12 years old."
> Jerry Sloan

A great defensive team with McMillan, Payton and McKey

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Jun 21, 9:08 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Sereno wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, anyone remember the largest margin of defeat for a Bulls
>>> team in The Finals?
>>
>> 107 to 86 Vs Seattle -21
>>
>> MJ 6-19 (11 -13 FTs) for 23 pts 2 rbs 3 asts
>> Pip 4-17 (including 1-8 on 3s) 9 pts 11 rbs 8 asts
>>
>> Payton 7-15 (including 3-6 on 3s) 21 pts 3 rbs 11 asts
>> Kemp 12-17 25 pts 11 rbs 3 asts
>>
>> Well ...you asked...
>>
>
> A great defensive team with McMillan, Payton and McKey

The game before was almost exactly reversed 108 to 86 bulls

--
Laurel T
"If Jordan loves the game so much,
why does he keep quitting?"
Cal Ripken

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 01:20:38 -0500, Frank Rizzo wrote
(in article
<9484ac67-478d-483d-a0cd-9cfd5e91ce37@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com>):

> On Jun 21, 9:08 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Sereno wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, anyone remember the largest margin of defeat for a Bulls
>>> team in The Finals?
>>
>> 107 to 86 Vs Seattle -21
>>
>> MJ 6-19 (11 -13 FTs) for 23 pts 2 rbs 3 asts
>> Pip 4-17 (including 1-8 on 3s) 9 pts 11 rbs 8 asts
>>
>> Payton 7-15 (including 3-6 on 3s) 21 pts 3 rbs 11 asts
>> Kemp 12-17 25 pts 11 rbs 3 asts
>>
>> Well ...you asked...
>>
>> --
>> Laurel T
>> "In my prime I could have handled
>> Michael Jordan. Of course,
>> he would be only 12 years old."
>> Jerry Sloan
>
> A great defensive team with McMillan, Payton and McKey

I remember Kemp going nuts in that game.

David wrote:
>
> I remember Kemp going nuts in that game.

Speaking of the reign man....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xZ2zSP0IMI

http://tinyurl.com/6k5elw
Bounce Magazine

He has lost weight and is in pretty decent shape. The bounce was still
there, and so was the swagger. The 'J and handles were a little rusty, but
still extremely impressive considering his age and his past problems.

In his second game a few hours later, his Old School Team matched up with
the Home Team, which boasted Seattle's favorite sons, Crawford, Brandon Roy
and Spencer Hawes.