* crossposted because these are the groups i talk basketball in....

I just came across this slightly disturbing blurb online.

Inside NBA's new flop rule
Posted: Friday May 30, 2008 05:29AM ET

The NBA likes its players to be entertainers, but when it comes to
fouls, the league would like to see a little less dramatic flair.
Starting next season, the league will fine players for "flopping" -- the
art of exaggerating a collision to provoke referees into calling a foul.
The new policy, which was first reported by ESPN.com, has been
considered for at least four years. NBA officials decided to act after
compiling data this season that showed the problem had become
widespread. Jackson said the league would penalize only "the most
egregious flops." Although defining that will be difficult, Jackson said
it would be clear enough when a play qualifies. "We're talking about the
play where a player barely gets touched and somehow ends up in the
second row," he said. The job of classifying flops and assigning
penalties will be handled by Jackson's staff, including a number of
league observers who already attend games in every arena. Referees will
continue to make calls as they see them, but the league will use video
replays to determine whether to fine a player. The new policy is certain
to be controversial, because it involves a judgment call that can border
on mind reading.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/52231




does anyone else have a problem with this?

it seems to me that....if the refs could tell a flop from a foul.....we
wouldnt have this problems.

so now...on top of the dozens of blown calls we already have every
week.....now FINES will be doled on based on judgement calls as well?

how about we get a replay team that can identify an offensive foul when
a post player lowers his shoulder and pounds thru the defender.....and
then gets an and-one?

what happened to cracking down on player complaining? at first,
EVERYONE was getting T-ed up. now players are barking at the refs the
whole way down the court again.

i am so close to being done with the NBA...my love of BPL is the only
thing keeping me hanging on.

/rant off

lee

"Lee Watkins" <lwatkins.nospam@nospam.juno.com> wrote in message
news:g1pipb$ihv$1@news.tamu.edu...
>* crossposted because these are the groups i talk basketball in....
>
> I just came across this slightly disturbing blurb online.
>
> Inside NBA's new flop rule
> Posted: Friday May 30, 2008 05:29AM ET
>
> The NBA likes its players to be entertainers, but when it comes to fouls,
> the league would like to see a little less dramatic flair. Starting next
> season, the league will fine players for "flopping" -- the art of
> exaggerating a collision to provoke referees into calling a foul. The new
> policy, which was first reported by ESPN.com, has been considered for at
> least four years. NBA officials decided to act after compiling data this
> season that showed the problem had become widespread. Jackson said the
> league would penalize only "the most egregious flops." Although defining
> that will be difficult, Jackson said it would be clear enough when a play
> qualifies. "We're talking about the play where a player barely gets
> touched and somehow ends up in the second row," he said. The job of
> classifying flops and assigning penalties will be handled by Jackson's
> staff, including a number of league observers who already attend games in
> every arena. Referees will continue to make calls as they see them, but
> the league will use video replays to determine whether to fine a player.
> The new policy is certain to be controversial, because it involves a
> judgment call that can border on mind reading.
>
> http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/52231
>

This will last about as long as the aforementioned "no complaining" rule.
But, just in case this does last, it was nice knowing you, Noce.

Lee Watkins:

> does anyone else have a problem with this?

Yes, Manu Ginobili says, hi.

DG

On Fri, 30 May 2008 17:30:39 -0400, Dan Gaters
<dan.gaters@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Lee Watkins:
>
>> does anyone else have a problem with this?
>
>Yes, Manu Ginobili says, hi.
>
>DG
>
Speaking for dan gaters of course but I think this is Isiah Thomas'
fault huh dan???

Syfo-Dyas:

> I think this is Isiah Thomas' fault

Yes, if the league had a flopping rule for coaches/front office people,
they'd name it after Isiah Lord Thomas III.

DG

On May 30, 8:31 pm, Dan Gaters <dan.gat...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Syfo-Dyas:
>
> > I think this is Isiah Thomas' fault
>
> Yes, if the league had a flopping rule for coaches/front office people,
> they'd name it after Isiah Lord Thomas III.
>
> DG

Now that was funny.
LMFAO

On May 30, 11:58 am, Lee Watkins <lwatkins.nos...@nospam.juno.com>
wrote:
> * crossposted because these are the groups i talk basketball in....
>
> I just came across this slightly disturbing blurb online.
>
> Inside NBA's new flop rule
> Posted: Friday May 30, 2008 05:29AM ET
>
> The NBA likes its players to be entertainers, but when it comes to
> fouls, the league would like to see a little less dramatic flair.
> Starting next season, the league will fine players for "flopping" -- the
> art of exaggerating a collision to provoke referees into calling a foul.
> The new policy, which was first reported by ESPN.com, has been
> considered for at least four years. NBA officials decided to act after
> compiling data this season that showed the problem had become
> widespread. Jackson said the league would penalize only "the most
> egregious flops." Although defining that will be difficult, Jackson said
> it would be clear enough when a play qualifies. "We're talking about the
> play where a player barely gets touched and somehow ends up in the
> second row," he said. The job of classifying flops and assigning
> penalties will be handled by Jackson's staff, including a number of
> league observers who already attend games in every arena. Referees will
> continue to make calls as they see them, but the league will use video
> replays to determine whether to fine a player. The new policy is certain
> to be controversial, because it involves a judgment call that can border
> on mind reading.
>
> http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/52231
>
> does anyone else have a problem with this?
>
> it seems to me that....if the refs could tell a flop from a foul.....we
> wouldnt have this problems.
>
> so now...on top of the dozens of blown calls we already have every
> week.....now FINES will be doled on based on judgement calls as well?
>
> how about we get a replay team that can identify an offensive foul when
> a post player lowers his shoulder and pounds thru the defender.....and
> then gets an and-one?
>
> what happened to cracking down on player complaining? at first,
> EVERYONE was getting T-ed up. now players are barking at the refs the
> whole way down the court again.
>
> i am so close to being done with the NBA...my love of BPL is the only
> thing keeping me hanging on.
>
> /rant off
>
> lee

No offense, but any Spurs fan should be upset by this. Ginobli, much
like Vlade, has made a mockery of taking the charge. Have some
freakin' dignity. This is not Italian soccer, this is hoops. I don't
like the flopping and never have. It's not manly.

On May 30, 5:31 pm, Dan Gaters <dan.gat...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Syfo-Dyas:
>
> > I think this is Isiah Thomas' fault
>
> Yes, if the league had a flopping rule for coaches/front office people,
> they'd name it after Isiah Lord Thomas III.
>
> DG

No, they would name sodomy receiving after him. Ask the Bulls, they
sure Pounded his ass.

Eddy Curry sends his love.

it seems like foreign players are the worst offenders. someone
compared to all the faking in soccer- good call. i'm sure that's where
they picked it up.

On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:01:17 -0500, Frank Rizzo wrote
(in article
<8a8a2694-1bd1-4b89-a76d-dfde5faa4775@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>):

>> how about we get a replay team that can identify an offensive foul when
>> a post player lowers his shoulder and pounds thru the defender.....and
>> then gets an and-one?

That's exactly right - let's start identifying who actually caused the
contact and call the foul on him.

Yes, I do have a problem with that kind of rule. Personally, I hate
flopping WHEN THE FLOPPER IS ON THE OTHER TEAM. When it's MY team, it
becomes 'gamesmanship'.

All this attention to flopping shows the interest it generates among the
fans. Controversy add to the entertainment value of NBA basketball. Do
they want to reduce the game to just X's and O's?

On May 30, 5:30 pm, Dan Gaters <dan.gat...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Lee Watkins:
>
> > does anyone else have a problem with this?
>
> Yes, Manu Ginobili says, hi.
>
> DG

lol, no kidding...

On Sat, 31 May 2008 10:45:19 -0500, "Andy" <koszyk@comcast.net> wrote:

>Yes, I do have a problem with that kind of rule. Personally, I hate
>flopping WHEN THE FLOPPER IS ON THE OTHER TEAM. When it's MY team, it
>becomes 'gamesmanship'.
>
>All this attention to flopping shows the interest it generates among the
>fans. Controversy add to the entertainment value of NBA basketball. Do
>they want to reduce the game to just X's and O's?
>

No just to flopping and no-flopping

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On May 30, 11:58 am, Lee Watkins <lwatkins.nos...@nospam.juno.com>
> wrote:
>> * crossposted because these are the groups i talk basketball in....
>>
>> I just came across this slightly disturbing blurb online.
>>
>> Inside NBA's new flop rule
>> Posted: Friday May 30, 2008 05:29AM ET
>>
>> The NBA likes its players to be entertainers, but when it comes to
>> fouls, the league would like to see a little less dramatic flair.
>> Starting next season, the league will fine players for "flopping" -- the
>> art of exaggerating a collision to provoke referees into calling a foul.
>> The new policy, which was first reported by ESPN.com, has been
>> considered for at least four years. NBA officials decided to act after
>> compiling data this season that showed the problem had become
>> widespread. Jackson said the league would penalize only "the most
>> egregious flops." Although defining that will be difficult, Jackson said
>> it would be clear enough when a play qualifies. "We're talking about the
>> play where a player barely gets touched and somehow ends up in the
>> second row," he said. The job of classifying flops and assigning
>> penalties will be handled by Jackson's staff, including a number of
>> league observers who already attend games in every arena. Referees will
>> continue to make calls as they see them, but the league will use video
>> replays to determine whether to fine a player. The new policy is certain
>> to be controversial, because it involves a judgment call that can border
>> on mind reading.
>>
>> http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/52231
>>
>> does anyone else have a problem with this?
>>
>> it seems to me that....if the refs could tell a flop from a foul.....we
>> wouldnt have this problems.
>>
>> so now...on top of the dozens of blown calls we already have every
>> week.....now FINES will be doled on based on judgement calls as well?
>>
>> how about we get a replay team that can identify an offensive foul when
>> a post player lowers his shoulder and pounds thru the defender.....and
>> then gets an and-one?
>>
>> what happened to cracking down on player complaining? at first,
>> EVERYONE was getting T-ed up. now players are barking at the refs the
>> whole way down the court again.
>>
>> i am so close to being done with the NBA...my love of BPL is the only
>> thing keeping me hanging on.
>>
>> /rant off
>>
>> lee
>
> No offense, but any Spurs fan should be upset by this. Ginobli, much
> like Vlade, has made a mockery of taking the charge. Have some
> freakin' dignity. This is not Italian soccer, this is hoops. I don't
> like the flopping and never have. It's not manly.

i'm not so upset at the rule itself. what pisses me off is that if the
refs would / could call the game correctly, there wouldnt be a need for
the rule.

lee

On Jun 3, 11:10 am, Lee Watkins <lwatkins.nos...@nospam.juno.com>
wrote:
> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > On May 30, 11:58 am, Lee Watkins <lwatkins.nos...@nospam.juno.com>
> > wrote:
> >> * crossposted because these are the groups i talk basketball in....
>
> >> I just came across this slightly disturbing blurb online.
>
> >> Inside NBA's new flop rule
> >> Posted: Friday May 30, 2008 05:29AM ET
>
> >> The NBA likes its players to be entertainers, but when it comes to
> >> fouls, the league would like to see a little less dramatic flair.
> >> Starting next season, the league will fine players for "flopping" -- the
> >> art of exaggerating a collision to provoke referees into calling a foul.
> >> The new policy, which was first reported by ESPN.com, has been
> >> considered for at least four years. NBA officials decided to act after
> >> compiling data this season that showed the problem had become
> >> widespread. Jackson said the league would penalize only "the most
> >> egregious flops." Although defining that will be difficult, Jackson said
> >> it would be clear enough when a play qualifies. "We're talking about the
> >> play where a player barely gets touched and somehow ends up in the
> >> second row," he said. The job of classifying flops and assigning
> >> penalties will be handled by Jackson's staff, including a number of
> >> league observers who already attend games in every arena. Referees will
> >> continue to make calls as they see them, but the league will use video
> >> replays to determine whether to fine a player. The new policy is certain
> >> to be controversial, because it involves a judgment call that can border
> >> on mind reading.
>
> >>http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/52231
>
> >> does anyone else have a problem with this?
>
> >> it seems to me that....if the refs could tell a flop from a foul.....we
> >> wouldnt have this problems.
>
> >> so now...on top of the dozens of blown calls we already have every
> >> week.....now FINES will be doled on based on judgement calls as well?
>
> >> how about we get a replay team that can identify an offensive foul when
> >> a post player lowers his shoulder and pounds thru the defender.....and
> >> then gets an and-one?
>
> >> what happened to cracking down on player complaining? at first,
> >> EVERYONE was getting T-ed up. now players are barking at the refs the
> >> whole way down the court again.
>
> >> i am so close to being done with the NBA...my love of BPL is the only
> >> thing keeping me hanging on.
>
> >> /rant off
>
> >> lee
>
> > No offense, but any Spurs fan should be upset by this. Ginobli, much
> > like Vlade, has made a mockery of taking the charge. Have some
> > freakin' dignity. This is not Italian soccer, this is hoops. I don't
> > like the flopping and never have. It's not manly.
>
> i'm not so upset at the rule itself. what pisses me off is that if the
> refs would / could call the game correctly, there wouldnt be a need for
> the rule.
>
> lee

True enough. But actors like Vlade, Rodman, Ginobli, Nash, Rip
Hamilton and others make it more difficult to call correctly. So on
the occasion that they are busted by an obvious flop, the fine will
discourage such histrionics (hopefully). I am not sure this is the
right approach either. Something though has to be done. Perhaps for a
flagrant flop where the ref determined there was no contact you award
the offense a FT and the ball rather than a fine.

I never liked 7 footers taking charges from guards who are attacking
the rim. Play some fucking defense you big pussy and challenge the
shot. I also don't like guys moving laterally (not towards the rim)
getting an offensive foul from some secondary defender jumping in
front and getting the charge. That should NEVER be called. I also
don't believe in a charge being called on a ball handler 20 or more
feet from the rim. I've seen all of those numerous times. All those
have to go away for the fluidity of the game.

Great on-ball defenders don't need to constantly take charges. Al
Harrington and Mike Dunleavy take a lot of charges because they cannot
defend. Raja Bell, Ron Artest, Kobe etc don't take charges because
they take the challenge of playing D.

Rizzo