Tribe has only 5-6 "untouchables" Martinez, Sizemore, Carmona,
Laffery, Francisco, and maybe Cabrera, last 3 mostly because of low
salary and youth.

"wolfagain" <wolf@provide.net> wrote in message
news:a6d0deb6-ca97-45b7-9de3-9985ef3420f0@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Tribe has only 5-6 "untouchables" Martinez, Sizemore, Carmona,
> Laffery, Francisco, and maybe Cabrera, last 3 mostly because of low
> salary and youth.

I don't think Martinez or Sizemore are untouchable.
But I wouldn't trade them, as they are producing to a
degree this year.

I bet Shapiro thinks that Francisco, Laffey and Sowers are trade bait.

I'd be very tempted to DFA Dellucci and Hafner.
Dellucci's never been real productive wherever he's been.

I'm now to the point that I believe that Hafner was using.
He's hitting .216. 148 ABs. 32 hits, 42 Ks. 4 HRs.
And he's a DH.
And I'm Santa Claus.
CC would put up better numbers.

Garko needs benched.
Play Aubrey.

Asdrubal needs sent down.
Bring up Barfield.

Blake needs to be the Utility player he really is.
Play Marte, and DFA him if he stinks like I think he will.

Work on trading CC and Peralta for for a 3B or LF with
a BA >= .280 and HR >= 6, and AAA players.
That's all Shapiro will get, and we need to accept it.

The last time I saw a "Kicking the Bucket" scene as on aim as
Martinez's the other night was in "It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world".
This team is as dead as the guy who did it in the movie.

On Fri, 23 May 2008 09:56:47 -0400, "Steve-O" <steveoneill@alltel.net>
wrote:

>
>"wolfagain" <wolf@provide.net> wrote in message
>news:a6d0deb6-ca97-45b7-9de3-9985ef3420f0@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> Tribe has only 5-6 "untouchables" Martinez, Sizemore, Carmona,
>> Laffery, Francisco, and maybe Cabrera, last 3 mostly because of low
>> salary and youth.
>
>I don't think Martinez or Sizemore are untouchable.

martinez' value as a game caller is extremely underrated, plus the SB%
numbers by opponents is actually in the bottom 3rd. more importantly,
he's the elder stateman to all of the indians from central america -
about a third of the whole squad who are all pretty young. hard to put
a dollar figure on that, but for what he means to the indians, i'd
drive a hard bargain.

sizemore, with his reasonable contract, and potential to be one of the
best in the game, ever, DITTO.

granted, we have young talent in shoppach (and possibly gutierrez)
that we could fill these holes, but you'd have to offer a package
including first born kids to make *me* trade either player.

>But I wouldn't trade them, as they are producing to a
>degree this year.

>I bet Shapiro thinks that Francisco, Laffey and Sowers are trade bait.

not francisco - although he might have the most value.

>I'd be very tempted to DFA Dellucci and Hafner.
>Dellucci's never been real productive wherever he's been.

if you use delucci strictly as a platoon player against RHP, he's
actually been fairly effective.

from 2004 -2006 (he was hurt in 2007) against RHP, delluccis had the
following #'s against RHP

ABs R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K
BA
244 38 73 13 5 11 35 25 57
..299
402 90 101 16 5 28 62 71 106
..251
303 57 77 13 1 17 59 44 79
..254

totals

949 185 251 42 11 56 156 140 242
..264

average per season

316 62 84 14 3 19 52 47 81
..264

320/400 = 80% so multiply those #'s times 1.25 to project those
numbers over 400 ABs, and you get:

395 78 105 18 4 24 65 59 101
..264

which mirrors his season number for 2005. granted, he produced those
2005 #'s in texas which is a hitter's park, but then so is jacobs
field - which makes the indians pitching look even more impressive
IMO.

michaels' fade still baffles me. his LP numbers from 2007-5 (downward)
ABs R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K
BA
136 20 39 6 0 5 28 15 21
..287
189 33 55 15 0 5 27 17 30
..291
130 26 42 10 1 0 10 29 20
..323


it might look like michaels changed his approach and tried to hit for
more power? his HR's went up, but so did his K's. i note that for the
month of may, michaels is now hitting .278, and i suspect that his
numbers for the rest of the year will llook like his previous years;
in other words, it wasn't him as much as whatever it is that's
affecting the entire team.


>I'm now to the point that I believe that Hafner was using.
>He's hitting .216. 148 ABs. 32 hits, 42 Ks. 4 HRs.
>And he's a DH.
>And I'm Santa Claus.
>CC would put up better numbers.

and he rips up a knee sliding into 2nd base. not worth the risk.

>Garko needs benched.
>Play Aubrey.
>
>Asdrubal needs sent down.
>Bring up Barfield.

who is hitting only slightly better against AAA pitching?



--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"

"barry" <toisan_boy@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mmtd34ltmp0ip81m9urfct2rc8lrm2q682@4ax.com...
>
> martinez' value as a game caller is extremely underrated, plus the SB%
> numbers by opponents is actually in the bottom 3rd. more importantly,
> he's the elder stateman to all of the indians from central america -
> about a third of the whole squad who are all pretty young. hard to put
> a dollar figure on that, but for what he means to the indians, i'd
> drive a hard bargain.

I'm not denigrarting VM, just saying that he's not untouchable.
When a team looks and plays this bad, no one is untouchable.
I'd simply keep hm due to the fact that he is producing. When so many
are not producing, keeping the two who in small ways are is an easy call.

> sizemore, with his reasonable contract, and potential to be one of the
> best in the game, ever, DITTO.
>
Sizemore is a good fielding CF (most are..) who is hitting .270.
He strkes out too often for a leadoff hitter. Of course, having
anyone bat 2nd who can hit above .220 would help Grady a lot.
He did not have that good of a year last year, and he stands out
on a bad offensive team.

> if you use delucci strictly as a platoon player against RHP, he's
> actually been fairly effective.
>
Regardless, he's a huge liability defensively, and would fill a very limited
role.

>>Asdrubal needs sent down.
>>Bring up Barfield.
>
> who is hitting only slightly better against AAA pitching?

I think Barfield is hitting .300 for May, and BF wasn't tearing it up
at AAA either.

The thing is, at almost 50 games into the season, expecting the offense
to turn around is a bit like expecting to hit the lottery to pay your bills.

The team is awful to watch, they look like they're on Zanax.

>

"barry" <toisan_boy@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mmtd34ltmp0ip81m9urfct2rc8lrm2q682@4ax.com...

> martinez' value as a game caller is extremely underrated, plus the SB%
> numbers by opponents is actually in the bottom 3rd. more importantly,
> he's the elder stateman to all of the indians from central america -
> about a third of the whole squad who are all pretty young. hard to put
> a dollar figure on that, but for what he means to the indians, i'd
> drive a hard bargain.

I'm not denigrarting VM, just saying that he's not untouchable.
When a team looks and plays this bad, no one is untouchable.
I'd simply keep hm due to the fact that he is producing. When so many
are not producing, keeping the two who in small ways are is an easy call.

> sizemore, with his reasonable contract, and potential to be one of the
> best in the game, ever, DITTO.
>
Sizemore is a good fielding CF (most are..) who is hitting .254. (This was a
correction..)
He strikes out too often for a leadoff hitter. Of course, having
anyone bat 2nd who can hit above .220 would help Grady a lot.
He did not have that good of a year last year, and he stands out
on a bad offensive team.

> if you use delucci strictly as a platoon player against RHP, he's
> actually been fairly effective.
>
Regardless, he's a huge liability defensively, and would fill a very limited
role.

>>Asdrubal needs sent down.
>>Bring up Barfield.
>
> who is hitting only slightly better against AAA pitching?

I think Barfield is hitting .300 for May, and BF wasn't tearing it up
at AAA either.

The thing is, at almost 50 games into the season, expecting the offense
to turn around is a bit like expecting to hit the lottery to pay your bills.

The team is awful to watch, they look like they're on Zanax.

>

"Steve-O" <steveoneill@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:74780$4836c8d1$4b75f4bf$14172@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "wolfagain" <wolf@provide.net> wrote in message
> news:a6d0deb6-ca97-45b7-9de3-9985ef3420f0@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> > Tribe has only 5-6 "untouchables" Martinez, Sizemore, Carmona,
> > Laffery, Francisco, and maybe Cabrera, last 3 mostly because of low
> > salary and youth.
>
> I don't think Martinez or Sizemore are untouchable.
> But I wouldn't trade them, as they are producing to a
> degree this year.
>
> I bet Shapiro thinks that Francisco, Laffey and Sowers are trade bait.
>
> I'd be very tempted to DFA Dellucci and Hafner.
> Dellucci's never been real productive wherever he's been.
>
> I'm now to the point that I believe that Hafner was using.
> He's hitting .216. 148 ABs. 32 hits, 42 Ks. 4 HRs.
> And he's a DH.
> And I'm Santa Claus.
> CC would put up better numbers.
>
> Garko needs benched.
> Play Aubrey.
>
> Asdrubal needs sent down.
> Bring up Barfield.
>
> Blake needs to be the Utility player he really is.
> Play Marte, and DFA him if he stinks like I think he will.
>
> Work on trading CC and Peralta for for a 3B or LF with
> a BA >= .280 and HR >= 6, and AAA players.
> That's all Shapiro will get, and we need to accept it.
>
> The last time I saw a "Kicking the Bucket" scene as on aim as
> Martinez's the other night was in "It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world".
> This team is as dead as the guy who did it in the movie.

Hope Shapiro doesn't trade anyone. He has been screwed royally in the past.

Yes and look at all those championships we had after he traded
Colavito or Nettles or Chambliss.


On Fri, 23 May 2008 05:24:00 -0700 (PDT), wolfagain <wolf@provide.net>
wrote:

>Tribe has only 5-6 "untouchables" Martinez, Sizemore, Carmona,
>Laffery, Francisco, and maybe Cabrera, last 3 mostly because of low
>salary and youth.

On Fri, 23 May 2008 14:34:55 -0400, "Steve-O" <steveoneill@alltel.net>
wrote:

>
>"barry" <toisan_boy@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:mmtd34ltmp0ip81m9urfct2rc8lrm2q682@4ax.com...
>>
>> martinez' value as a game caller is extremely underrated, plus the SB%
>> numbers by opponents is actually in the bottom 3rd. more importantly,
>> he's the elder stateman to all of the indians from central america -
>> about a third of the whole squad who are all pretty young. hard to put
>> a dollar figure on that, but for what he means to the indians, i'd
>> drive a hard bargain.
>
>I'm not denigrarting VM, just saying that he's not untouchable.
>When a team looks and plays this bad, no one is untouchable.
>I'd simply keep hm due to the fact that he is producing. When so many
>are not producing, keeping the two who in small ways are is an easy call.
>
>> sizemore, with his reasonable contract, and potential to be one of the
>> best in the game, ever, DITTO.
>>
>Sizemore is a good fielding CF (most are..) who is hitting .270.
>He strkes out too often for a leadoff hitter. Of course, having
>anyone bat 2nd who can hit above .220 would help Grady a lot.
>He did not have that good of a year last year, and he stands out
>on a bad offensive team.
>
>> if you use delucci strictly as a platoon player against RHP, he's
>> actually been fairly effective.
>>
>Regardless, he's a huge liability defensively, and would fill a very limited
>role.
>
>>>Asdrubal needs sent down.
>>>Bring up Barfield.
>>
>> who is hitting only slightly better against AAA pitching?
>
>I think Barfield is hitting .300 for May, and BF wasn't tearing it up
>at AAA either.
>
>The thing is, at almost 50 games into the season, expecting the offense
>to turn around is a bit like expecting to hit the lottery to pay your bills.
>
>The team is awful to watch, they look like they're on Zanax.
>

i wonder if the indians got seduced by shapiro's mantra: we were
winning a game 7 away from being in the world series, and they coasted
in the offseason attitude wise.

--------
"any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors"