It's not really all that obvious. Everyone is down on 'Sheed for his
attitude/performance in most of the Boston series. But getting rid of
him would leave a huge hole -- it's not as if Detroit has another
plausible starting center: Johnson isn't ready, Maxiell isn't big
enough, McDyess is too small and too old, Ratliff is old and was never
really all that good, although he does try. And it's not like Detroit
is going to get a young, healthy, problem-free center with a good post-
up game and good defensive skills in exchange for 'Sheed and 'Sheed
alone.

Beyond that, it's hard to know exactly what this team needs. All the
starters, except arguably for McDyess, are in the upper echelon of
their positions. It's not like we're trying to surround a superstar
or two with a better supporting cast. In my broken-record mode, I'm
going to keep sayying, as I have since 2005, that we need a decent
backup SF (it was sad both how many minutes Prince played in the
playoffs, and how often Detroit went to three guards when he was
out). That's not going to be enough, though.

The silver lining is that, for the first time in a long time, we did
see a couple of young guys on the bench this year who will almost
certainly be better next year: Stuckey and Maxiell. This team might
be able to stay more-or-less pat (keep the starters and those two) and
maybe even make it back to the ECF again. And I don't think Joe D.
should "blow up the team" or make some desperation Big Move (see
Dallas and Pheonix) this year. But to get back to the finals,
something needs to happen. Nothing is immediately obvious to me, but
I'm sure Joe D is thinking about it.-- Joe

Flip Saunders is out,,,,in is Avery Johnson.

Chauncy is traded straight up for Allen Iverson.
Allen is more dedicated and Billups is past due for going home.

Dyss and Maxiell serve dual minutes covering the power forward position.

Rip and Prince stay put.

Sheed never was an adequate center...let's see what he's worth by
putting his moody ass on the trade block.

We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're holding
too many.

rdjio@webtv.net wrote:

> We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're
> holding too many.

"We"?
It is pretty dumb for fans to use that like they are part of the team, for
you as the worst anti-fan it is like a blood sucking parasite referring to
itself and the host as we....


--
Laurel T
There are three kinds of men.
The one that learns by reading.
The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the
electric fence for themselves.
Will Rogers

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:45:14 -0400, rdjio@webtv.net wrote:

>Flip Saunders is out,,,,in is Avery Johnson.
>

Flip is out but Johnson is not the answer. He couldn't get Dallas
with all of their talent over the hump. He wouldn't do any better in
Detroit.

>Chauncy is traded straight up for Allen Iverson.
>Allen is more dedicated and Billups is past due for going home.
>

Allen's used by date is nearly the same as Chauncy's and who has
gotten their team further in the playoffs? Iverson couldn't get his
team out of the first round.

>Dyss and Maxiell serve dual minutes covering the power forward position.
>

Which they did all season. Where have you been?

>Rip and Prince stay put.
>

No kidding.

>Sheed never was an adequate center...let's see what he's worth by
>putting his moody ass on the trade block.
>

That might happen.

>We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're holding
>too many.

Dixon is a FA and won't be back moron. Affalo is a 2 guard, playing
behind Rip. Lindsey will probably retire. So we would have 4 guards,
Chauncey, Stucky, Rip and Affalo. That's the minimum number you need.


Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad
to make an exception."
-- Groucho Marx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve

On Jun 2, 11:45 pm, rd...@webtv.net wrote:
> Flip Saunders is out,,,,in is Avery Johnson.

Why bring in a proven choker? Oh wait, Joe did bring in Saunders...

On Jun 3, 9:51 am, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> rd...@webtv.net wrote:
> > We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're
> > holding too many.
>
> "We"?
> It is pretty dumb for fans to use that like they are part of the team,

The fans bring in some of the revenue for the teams, so they have
every right to say "we".

On Jun 2, 11:45 pm, rd...@webtv.net wrote:

> Chauncy is traded straight up for Allen Iverson.
> Allen is more dedicated and Billups is past due for going home.

I can see Joe getting something going if he thought he could get
Iverson. I'm not sure if it would be so straight up. I think Philly
would want to make sure they were in great position if they let him
go. They would want to improve several positions, so it would be
multiplayer, and we can only hope that Joe could get another good
thing packaged with Ivey, either through Philly alone, or more
likely-- a multi-team deal.

We can really use a player who can't be shut down in the paint and is
still hungry;we can afford to give up a piece or two to shake things
up. What we'd have left would still be more of a supporting cast than
Iverson's ever had to work with.

<remysun2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:82105063-9097-4c42-a8d1-9beb17c9afc0@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 2, 11:45 pm, rd...@webtv.net wrote:

> Chauncy is traded straight up for Allen Iverson.
> Allen is more dedicated and Billups is past due for going home.

I can see Joe getting something going if he thought he could get
Iverson. I'm not sure if it would be so straight up. I think Philly
would want to make sure they were in great position if they let him
go. They would want to improve several positions, so it would be
multiplayer, and we can only hope that Joe could get another good
thing packaged with Ivey, either through Philly alone, or more
likely-- a multi-team deal.

We can really use a player who can't be shut down in the paint and is
still hungry;we can afford to give up a piece or two to shake things
up. What we'd have left would still be more of a supporting cast than
Iverson's ever had to work with.


--------------------------
Doesn't Iverson play with Denver now?

NB wrote:
> On Jun 3, 9:51 am, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> rd...@webtv.net wrote:
>>> We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're
>>> holding too many.
>>
>> "We"?
>> It is pretty dumb for fans to use that like they are part of the
>> team,
>
> The fans bring in some of the revenue for the teams, so they have
> every right to say "we".

"We" are clients of a business. There are lots of us and we can be
replaced....
Does not make us part of the franchise no matter how appealing that might
be.
And there is certainly no "we" for fans in team decisions.
If we are fans of a brand and idenitify with it, always buy a Chevy, should
we refer to GM as "We" because you provide revenue?
You bring in revenue when you eat dinner out...do you say "we" about your
favorite restaurant's staff? And if the new chef is not getting the job done
would you say 'We" should fire him or "they" should fire him?


I am not a piston's fan but I root for them more than Webbie does...
So even if you think "we" is fine, webbie that spouts distain for the
players and team, only appears when they lose to gloat over predictions of
losses, while praising others constantly and roots for them is hardly a
'fan' to even make that argument...


--
Laurel T
Frank Layden on a 60-foot Maurice Lucas shot that
sent a game into overtime:
"In most places he would have won a car
or a trip to Hawaii. All he got was a tie."

On Jun 3, 11:54 am, SkippyPB <swieg...@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:45:14 -0400, rd...@webtv.net wrote:
> >Flip Saunders is out,,,,in is Avery Johnson.
>
> Flip is out but Johnson is not the answer.  He couldn't get Dallas
> with all of their talent over the hump.  He wouldn't do any better in
> Detroit.
>
> >Chauncy is traded straight up for Allen Iverson.
> >Allen is more dedicated and Billups is past due for going home.
>
> Allen's used by date is nearly the same as Chauncy's and who has
> gotten their team further in the playoffs?  Iverson couldn't get his
> team out of the first round.  
>
> >Dyss and Maxiell serve dual minutes covering the power forward position.
>
> Which they did all season.  Where have you been?
>
> >Rip and Prince stay put.
>
> No kidding.
>
> >Sheed never was an adequate center...let's see what he's worth by
> >putting his moody ass on the trade block.
>
> That might happen.
>
> >We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're holding
> >too many.
>
> Dixon is a FA and won't be back moron.  Affalo is a 2 guard, playing
> behind Rip.  Lindsey will probably retire. So we would have 4 guards,
> Chauncey, Stucky, Rip and Affalo.  That's the minimum number you need.
>
> Regards,
>           ////
>          (o o)
> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>
> "I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad
> to make an exception."
> -- Groucho Marx
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Remove nospam to email me.
>
> Steve

Agreed with all Skippy says, and also that doesn't answer my main
question, which is if we deal 'Sheed, which everyone seems to want to
do, who exactly is going to play center? It's possible we could get a
good post player for him, but 'Sheed is aging and is probably seen (by
other GMs) as a guy with a bad attitude. -- Joe

Fan is short for fanatic.....I'm merely a fan,,,short form..you're the
fanatic.

Know why? Ya' don't face facts.

Don't boo hoo now, I told ya' you weren't going anywhere with Flip at
the helm and a moody broody Wallace on the roster.

Why all the name calling?

I informed you of the teams flaws ages ago.

Don't cry, just say goodbye.

jslater@NOutnet.utoledoSPAM.edu wrote:
> On Jun 3, 11:54 am, SkippyPB <swieg...@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:45:14 -0400, rd...@webtv.net wrote:
>>> Flip Saunders is out,,,,in is Avery Johnson.
>>

>
> Agreed with all Skippy says, and also that doesn't answer my main
> question, which is if we deal 'Sheed, which everyone seems to want to
> do, who exactly is going to play center? It's possible we could get a
> good post player for him, but 'Sheed is aging and is probably seen (by
> other GMs) as a guy with a bad attitude. -- Joe

'Sheed's attitude will not be a problem, he is a good trade just for his
ending contract to many teams.
I can think of one that would jump on it...but it is a terrible trade
contract wise, especially for what you get... way overpaid Curry.

They could trade 'Sheed for Ben...=)
Help the cavs short term and the short
contract, Ben has 2 years at 14.5 mil and 14 mil.

I have heard rumored Przybilla wants a trade, not that Portland wants 'Sheed
back nor needs his ending contract, and KP might want to keep JoeL even if
he wants to go to where he will still be a starter ... but he might be
available in a 3 way.


cheap FAs
Mikki Moore, Fabricio Oberto, Michael Doleac, Jake Voskuhl

Got vomit bags? Kwame Brown, Patrick O'Bryant


--
Laurel T
"I thought Bill Laimbeer was the whiniest, most
despicable, most disgusting guy in the game.
On the other hand, I always
respected him as a player." Barkley

rdjio@webtv.net wrote:

>Fan is short for fanatic.....I'm merely a fan

You are a Pistons' anti-fan.

> I told ya' you weren't going anywhere with Flip at
>the helm...

What happened to "We"?

"You"? now I am the pistons?

I am not a pistons' fan, I am a fan of a different team... you would think
you could keep that straight after 4 years...and unlike you... I actually
root for my favorite team and judge them on the positives...


--
Laurel T
The league has informed the Blazers
that Wallace and the team will be fined the next
time Wallace ignores his responsibilities
to speak to members of the media.
Wallace was unavailable to comment.

rdjio@webtv.net wrote in news:1379-4845DDBA-380@storefull-
3212.bay.webtv.net:

> Why all the name calling?
>
> I informed you of the teams flaws ages ago.

Dude, weeks ago you were calling it Detroit and Phoenix in the finals.

> Don't cry, just say goodbye.

Hey, coward, you still won't admit to your posting as a this "lady"

http://community.webtv.net/AnitaCotillier/AnitaDarling

Why is that?

"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote

> cheap FAs
> Mikki Moore, Fabricio Oberto, Michael Doleac, Jake Voskuhl
>
> Got vomit bags? Kwame Brown, Patrick O'Bryant

I hear Chris Webber is available. Maybe Detroit can finally make that
Wallace for trade Webber trade Anita Darling, I mean rdjio, I mean Reggie
Johnson has been calling for, even if there's no one even holding the
rights to him.

"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:6alst4F37iq3oU1@mid.individual.net:

> NB wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 9:51 am, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> rd...@webtv.net wrote:
>>>> We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're
>>>> holding too many.
>>>
>>> "We"?
>>> It is pretty dumb for fans to use that like they are part of the
>>> team,
>>
>> The fans bring in some of the revenue for the teams, so they have
>> every right to say "we".
>
> I am not a piston's fan but I root for them more than Webbie does...
> So even if you think "we" is fine, webbie that spouts distain for the
> players and team, only appears when they lose to gloat over
> predictions of losses, while praising others constantly and roots for
> them is hardly a 'fan' to even make that argument...

Just a little background for NB -- rdjio@webtv.net, is a guy who
sometimes pretends to be former UTenn player Reggie Johnson and sometimes
pretends to be a girl named Anita Darling, who he sometimes calls his
daughter:

http://community-.webtv.net/AnitaCotillier/AnitaDarling/

The webtv user is certifiably nuts -- he believes that UFOs built the
Sphinx and buried satan in the great pyramids and that Mars is inhabited
by the Keebler elves or something like that.

If you want to see some of his insane posts, check out this link

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.basketball.nba.det-
pistons/msg/3ce90febb8c6e824

Or look in Google Groups for "Anita Darling" -- looks like he's been
posting a lot of his wacked out stuff recently.

He's also extremely spineless -- if you ever knock down any of his
arguments he runs and hides instead of trying to defend himself.

"jslater@NOutnet.utoledoSPAM.edu" <jslater@utnet.utoledo.edu> wrote:

> It's not really all that obvious. Everyone is down on 'Sheed for his
> attitude/performance in most of the Boston series. But getting rid of
> him would leave a huge hole -- it's not as if Detroit has another
> plausible starting center: Johnson isn't ready, Maxiell isn't big
> enough, McDyess is too small and too old, Ratliff is old and was never
> really all that good, although he does try. And it's not like Detroit
> is going to get a young, healthy, problem-free center with a good post-
> up game and good defensive skills in exchange for 'Sheed and 'Sheed
> alone.

I don't think they'll come up with another player who can defend like him
or equal his low post skills. As a consolation, though, it shouldn't be
that hard to find a better rebounder and his outside shooting role can be
absorbed by other players without too much trouble.

> Beyond that, it's hard to know exactly what this team needs. All the
> starters, except arguably for McDyess, are in the upper echelon of
> their positions.

Upper middle echelon. I don't think the Pistons have a true superstar
anywhere, and one of the big keys to their success has been having a team
where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Dumars has the
luxury in one sense of not needing to replace any superstars, but he also
has the problem in another sense of needing to find one or more guys with
the right mix of basketball IQ, selflessness, and focus to make the machine
work.

> The silver lining is that, for the first time in a long time, we did
> see a couple of young guys on the bench this year who will almost
> certainly be better next year: Stuckey and Maxiell.

Johnson didn't show as much as those guys, but he also showed he's not
going to be a Milicic. He may be at Maxiell's current skill level by this
time next year, and hopefully Maxiell will continue to improve. Maxiell is
showing signs of being able to score against decent defense from outside of
4 feet from the basket, and may well be able to score consistent double
digits next year.

> This team might
> be able to stay more-or-less pat (keep the starters and those two) and
> maybe even make it back to the ECF again. And I don't think Joe D.
> should "blow up the team" or make some desperation Big Move (see
> Dallas and Pheonix) this year.

I can't see him trading for old, increasingly hurting guys on the fast
downslopes of their careers like O'Neal and Kidd, for sure.

> But to get back to the finals,
> something needs to happen. Nothing is immediately obvious to me, but
> I'm sure Joe D is thinking about it.-- Joe

Billups probably has the highest trade value, and Stuckey's emergence means
that he can be replaced, though I wouldn't expect the offense to run as
well for a while -- Stuckey still has a lot to learn. Partly it will
depend on how likely Dumars and Davidson think the Pistons will be to
contend next year.

Hamilton is probably next in terms of trade value -- he's a good shooting
guard, but the league has a lot of guys who are good shooting guards, and
some teams may be leery about signing a guy who needs a lot of teamwork to
get his points. I can't see Dumars being afraid to deal him though,
considering how he came here in the first place in the trade for
Stackhouse, who was at a similar stage in his career when Dumars shipped
him away.

Wallace has some trade value, and his contract is trade friendly. Who
knows, if history repeats itself maybe it will be another Otis Thorpe type
deal that ends up paying dividends many years later, like it finally did
with Stuckey.

I'd hope Dumars keeps Afflalo -- I think he has good potential, but
obviously for the right player.... Maybe somebody has their eye on Samb
and offers a good trade for him, but then I wouldn't be in a rush. At any
rate, there are a lot of options, and frankly I'd be fine with a two year
plan for getting back to the top level rather than freaking out and
grabbing some me-first 38% shooter who launches 27 shots a game.

"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAMNOT@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:6am6igF35jsfcU1@mid.individual.net:

> rdjio@webtv.net wrote:
>
>>Fan is short for fanatic.....I'm merely a fan
>
> You are a Pistons' anti-fan.
>
>> I told ya' you weren't going anywhere with Flip at
>>the helm...
>
> What happened to "We"?
>
> "You"? now I am the pistons?
>
> I am not a pistons' fan, I am a fan of a different team... you would
> think you could keep that straight after 4 years

How long did it take for him to figure out you weren't a guy?

Of course, he's shown a lot of signs about being confused about whether
he's a guy or his own daughter, so go figure....

On Jun 3, 2:32 pm, "Hosmerica" <BigOneCom...@IveGotGas.com> wrote:

> Doesn't Iverson play with Denver now?

My bad. The rules stay the same. Multiplayer, multi-team. Need a guy
who can drive the ball inside.

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:01:00 -0700 (PDT), remysun2000@yahoo.com wrote:

>On Jun 2, 11:45 pm, rd...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>> Chauncy is traded straight up for Allen Iverson.
>> Allen is more dedicated and Billups is past due for going home.
>
>I can see Joe getting something going if he thought he could get
>Iverson. I'm not sure if it would be so straight up. I think Philly
>would want to make sure they were in great position if they let him
>go. They would want to improve several positions, so it would be
>multiplayer, and we can only hope that Joe could get another good
>thing packaged with Ivey, either through Philly alone, or more
>likely-- a multi-team deal.
>

Joe would only have to give up money to get Iverson as he is an
unrestricted free agent with an early termination option come July 1.
And he plays for the Nuggets (has for the last 2 years). He'll be 33
this Saturday. He's not "The Answer" for Detroit.

>We can really use a player who can't be shut down in the paint and is
>still hungry;we can afford to give up a piece or two to shake things
>up. What we'd have left would still be more of a supporting cast than
>Iverson's ever had to work with.

I disagree. The Nuggets have a great supporting cast. Camby, Melo,
Keynon Martin to name a few. They have the unfortunate circumstance
of being in a loaded West and being burdened by George Karl's system.

Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad
to make an exception."
-- Groucho Marx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:16:32 -0700 (PDT),
"jslater@NOutnet.utoledoSPAM.edu" <jslater@utnet.utoledo.edu> wrote:

>On Jun 3, 11:54 am, SkippyPB <swieg...@nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:45:14 -0400, rd...@webtv.net wrote:
>> >Flip Saunders is out,,,,in is Avery Johnson.
>>
>> Flip is out but Johnson is not the answer.  He couldn't get Dallas
>> with all of their talent over the hump.  He wouldn't do any better in
>> Detroit.
>>
>> >Chauncy is traded straight up for Allen Iverson.
>> >Allen is more dedicated and Billups is past due for going home.
>>
>> Allen's used by date is nearly the same as Chauncy's and who has
>> gotten their team further in the playoffs?  Iverson couldn't get his
>> team out of the first round.  
>>
>> >Dyss and Maxiell serve dual minutes covering the power forward position.
>>
>> Which they did all season.  Where have you been?
>>
>> >Rip and Prince stay put.
>>
>> No kidding.
>>
>> >Sheed never was an adequate center...let's see what he's worth by
>> >putting his moody ass on the trade block.
>>
>> That might happen.
>>
>> >We need to shed a few guards as well,,Dixon, maybe Affalo, we're holding
>> >too many.
>>
>> Dixon is a FA and won't be back moron.  Affalo is a 2 guard, playing
>> behind Rip.  Lindsey will probably retire. So we would have 4 guards,
>> Chauncey, Stucky, Rip and Affalo.  That's the minimum number you need.
>>
>> Regards,
>>           ////
>>          (o o)
>> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>>
>> "I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad
>> to make an exception."
>> -- Groucho Marx
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Remove nospam to email me.
>>
>> Steve
>
>Agreed with all Skippy says, and also that doesn't answer my main
>question, which is if we deal 'Sheed, which everyone seems to want to
>do, who exactly is going to play center? It's possible we could get a
>good post player for him, but 'Sheed is aging and is probably seen (by
>other GMs) as a guy with a bad attitude. -- Joe

They can go one of two ways. Sign an FA center would be way number 1.
There's Diekembe Mutombo who is an unrestricted FA, but do you want a
guy that old starting? Probably not. There's also Jermaine O'Neil
who could be a PF or Center that is an unrestricted free agent with an
early termination option. If his knee is healthy, I'd love to see him
in a Piston uniform. You want a low post player who can rebound, pass
and hit a 17-18 foot jumper? He's your guy. There are a few other
true centers coming available, but none that I can see starting.

The other option is to start Amir Johnson and find among the available
FA centers a guy who can eat up a lot of minutes until Amir hits his
stride, assuming he will.

Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad
to make an exception."
-- Groucho Marx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve