http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/

Looking at Greg Oden's possible impact
It's been a while since I posted an update on the Blazers' ranking in the
power polls, but I thought it was a good time to look at what is being said
and where they are being placed now that the focus is moving away from the
playoffs and more toward their future potential.

What I found is what I pretty much expected: The Blazers are holding steady
in the middle of the pack - right about where I think they deserve to be
ranked after a difficult February. And a lot of talk - as should also be
expected - is focusing on the future of a LaMarcus Aldridge-Greg Oden
tandem. The NBA.com poll mentions specifically that the addition of Oden
next year should shore up one of the Blazers' biggest weaknesses this year:
Defensive rebounding.

That should be a key point to focus on during the next month as we start
looking ahead to next season: How many key weaknesses could Oden's addition
correct on its own? I personally believe - and have been saying for a while
now - that he will correct the two biggest problems on the team: Rebounding
on both ends - which has been a regular topic of discussion - but also an
area that has received little attention: The number of layups and dunks the
Blazers allow.

Having Joel Przybilla (who only plays an average of 22 minutes) as the lone
post defensive presence with a backcourt that still has a tendency to allow
too much dribble penetration - particularly when Jarrett Jack or Sergio
Rodriguez are in the game - has created a significant hole that badly needs
to be plugged. Portland has given up 960 layups and dunks this year on 1,563
attempts. Now to digest those numbers, let me put that in perspective: It's
293 more (which averages out to 9.3 points per game) than the Blazers have
made, and approximately eight more attempts than the Blazers have averaged
per game. It's also 519 more made shots than the second-most productive
section of the floor that I chart in my expanded Blazers stats (3-pointers
are No. 2, where teams are 421 of 1193). That's not exactly a stat that
makes coaches sleep easy at night.

Now, the Blazers have also made more layups and dunks than any other spot on
the floor, though obviously far fewer than opponents (647). But they have
attempted more shots from 9-17 feet (1,070), 18-22 feet (1,318) and 3-point
range (1,119), which I think is easily attributed to the fact that Portland's
primary power forwards - LaMarcus Aldridge and Channing Frye - have been
getting a majority of their shots off pick-and-rolls throughout the year
rather than post-ups. And on the other end, the lack of defensive rebounding
and thin defensive depth in the post has allowed teams to not only penetrate
for layups and dunks, but to pull down offensive boards and get easy
putbacks. Looking at these numbers, one statement is easily made: The
Blazers give up far too many easy baskets, and have to work harder than
opponents to get open looks because they're coming away from the basket. For
the full breakdown, check out my expanded Blazers stats, which are now
updated through Tuesday's win over Minnesota.

Now imagine throwing Oden in the mix: A true back-to-the-basket center with
some offensive potential - perhaps not expected to be great, but enough to
pick up more easy baskets inside and open up room for the perimeter shooters
to get open looks more easily. With Oden, perhaps you can expect to get more
high-percentage shot attempts inside offensively, and on defense (which
would then be able to bring Joel Przybilla off the bench) the added
defensive post presence could cut down on the number of easy buckets
opponents are scoring and improve the defensive rebounding, which in turn
could cut down on the number of putbacks. It's easy to picture Oden's
physical presence eventually shoring up what has been a significant hole
and making the Blazers much more competitive in the process.

It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable look at
what Oden's impact could be. And the national power rankings are already
starting to turn their attention to how Oden could help the Blazers next
year.

On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>
> Looking at Greg Oden's possible impact
> It's been a while since I posted an update on the Blazers' ranking in the
> power polls, but I thought it was a good time to look at what is being said
> and where they are being placed now that the focus is moving away from the
> playoffs and more toward their future potential.
>
> What I found is what I pretty much expected: The Blazers are holding steady
> in the middle of the pack - right about where I think they deserve to be
> ranked after a difficult February. And a lot of talk - as should also be
> expected - is focusing on the future of a LaMarcus Aldridge-Greg Oden
> tandem. The NBA.com poll mentions specifically that the addition of Oden
> next year should shore up one of the Blazers' biggest weaknesses this year:
> Defensive rebounding.
>
> That should be a key point to focus on during the next month as we start
> looking ahead to next season: How many key weaknesses could Oden's addition
> correct on its own? I personally believe - and have been saying for a while
> now - that he will correct the two biggest problems on the team: Rebounding
> on both ends - which has been a regular topic of discussion - but also an
> area that has received little attention: The number of layups and dunks the
> Blazers allow.
>
> Having Joel Przybilla (who only plays an average of 22 minutes) as the lone
> post defensive presence with a backcourt that still has a tendency to allow
> too much dribble penetration - particularly when Jarrett Jack or Sergio
> Rodriguez are in the game - has created a significant hole that badly needs
> to be plugged. Portland has given up 960 layups and dunks this year on 1,563
> attempts. Now to digest those numbers, let me put that in perspective: It's
> 293 more (which averages out to 9.3 points per game) than the Blazers have
> made, and approximately eight more attempts than the Blazers have averaged
> per game. It's also 519 more made shots than the second-most productive
> section of the floor that I chart in my expanded Blazers stats (3-pointers
> are No. 2, where teams are 421 of 1193). That's not exactly a stat that
> makes coaches sleep easy at night.
>
> Now, the Blazers have also made more layups and dunks than any other spot on
> the floor, though obviously far fewer than opponents (647). But they have
> attempted more shots from 9-17 feet (1,070), 18-22 feet (1,318) and 3-point
> range (1,119), which I think is easily attributed to the fact that Portland's
> primary power forwards - LaMarcus Aldridge and Channing Frye - have been
> getting a majority of their shots off pick-and-rolls throughout the year
> rather than post-ups. And on the other end, the lack of defensive rebounding
> and thin defensive depth in the post has allowed teams to not only penetrate
> for layups and dunks, but to pull down offensive boards and get easy
> putbacks. Looking at these numbers, one statement is easily made: The
> Blazers give up far too many easy baskets, and have to work harder than
> opponents to get open looks because they're coming away from the basket. For
> the full breakdown, check out my expanded Blazers stats, which are now
> updated through Tuesday's win over Minnesota.
>
> Now imagine throwing Oden in the mix: A true back-to-the-basket center with
> some offensive potential - perhaps not expected to be great, but enough to
> pick up more easy baskets inside and open up room for the perimeter shooters
> to get open looks more easily. With Oden, perhaps you can expect to get more
> high-percentage shot attempts inside offensively, and on defense (which
> would then be able to bring Joel Przybilla off the bench) the added
> defensive post presence could cut down on the number of easy buckets
> opponents are scoring and improve the defensive rebounding, which in turn
> could cut down on the number of putbacks. It's easy to picture Oden's
> physical presence eventually shoring up what has been a significant hole
> and making the Blazers much more competitive in the process.
>
> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable look at
> what Oden's impact could be. And the national power rankings are already
> starting to turn their attention to how Oden could help the Blazers next
> year.

I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden. He's two years
out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.
Defensively and on the glass he'll be huge. He'll allow the perimeter
players to be more aggressive and stop plays at the rim. Perhaps a
young Dwight Howard type (who looks older)...Howard wasn't much
offensively his first year, but look at him now..

Rizzo

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>>
>> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable
>> look at what Oden's impact could be. And the national power rankings
>> are already starting to turn their attention to how Oden could help
>> the Blazers next year.
>
> I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden. He's two years
> out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.

I am nothing but patient. However...
I think he was a little farther along than you think. Remember he played the
college season using only his off hand because his shooting hand was broken.
He has been able to practice shooting FTs for a few weeks and now has seven
months to work with the blazers assistants, one of whom (monty williams)
raised Joel's FT% from under 50% to nearly 70% last summer and turned Travis
into a good jump shooter... besides the big man coach Luke.

They will not let him play summer league but he may be asked to join the
practice team again to play against the olympic team since Nate is one of
the coaches they should allow that.


--
Laurel T
"New Jersey is completely different from
Utah. 'Brother' in Utah and 'brother' in
New Jersey are entirely different concepts."
Rick Majerus on Van Horn being drafted by the Nets

On Mar 12, 10:58 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>
> >> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable
> >> look at what Oden's impact could be. And the national power rankings
> >> are already starting to turn their attention to how Oden could help
> >> the Blazers next year.
>
> > I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden. He's two years
> > out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.
>
> I am nothing but patient. However...
> I think he was a little farther along than you think. Remember he played the
> college season using only his off hand because his shooting hand was broken.
> He has been able to practice shooting FTs for a few weeks and now has seven
> months to work with the blazers assistants, one of whom (monty williams)
> raised Joel's FT% from under 50% to nearly 70% last summer and turned Travis
> into a good jump shooter... besides the big man coach Luke.
>
> They will not let him play summer league but he may be asked to join the
> practice team again to play against the olympic team since Nate is one of
> the coaches they should allow that.
>
> --

You're probably right. Just sayin' hope Blazer fans are not expecting
Yao like offense in November.

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Mar 12, 10:58 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Rizzo wrote:
>>> On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>>
>>>> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable
>>>> look at what Oden's impact could be. And the national power
>>>> rankings are already starting to turn their attention to how Oden
>>>> could help the Blazers next year.
>>
>>> I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden. He's two
>>> years out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.
>>
>> I am nothing but patient. However...
>> I think he was a little farther along than you think. Remember he
>> played the college season using only his off hand because his
>> shooting hand was broken. He has been able to practice shooting FTs
>> for a few weeks and now has seven months to work with the blazers
>> assistants, one of whom (monty williams) raised Joel's FT% from
>> under 50% to nearly 70% last summer and turned Travis into a good
>> jump shooter... besides the big man coach Luke.
>>
>> They will not let him play summer league but he may be asked to join
>> the practice team again to play against the olympic team since Nate
>> is one of the coaches they should allow that.
>>
>> --
>
> You're probably right. Just sayin' hope Blazer fans are not expecting
> Yao like offense in November.

I think they more expect him to be Oden with his game. Portland fans tend
to be fairly knowledgable.
I have heard them cheer a great pick and love shot blockers.

I said before in a way the silver lining with the blazers being better than
expected is it takes the pressure off of Oden to be an instant 'savior" as
might have happened.


--
Laurel T
"Basketball players win basketball games,
"Athletes win track meets." Shane Battier

On Mar 13, 6:00 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > On Mar 12, 10:58 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> >>> On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>
> >>>> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable
> >>>> look at what Oden's impact could be. And the national power
> >>>> rankings are already starting to turn their attention to how Oden
> >>>> could help the Blazers next year.
>
> >>> I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden. He's two
> >>> years out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.
>
> >> I am nothing but patient. However...
> >> I think he was a little farther along than you think. Remember he
> >> played the college season using only his off hand because his
> >> shooting hand was broken. He has been able to practice shooting FTs
> >> for a few weeks and now has seven months to work with the blazers
> >> assistants, one of whom (monty williams) raised Joel's FT% from
> >> under 50% to nearly 70% last summer and turned Travis into a good
> >> jump shooter... besides the big man coach Luke.
>
> >> They will not let him play summer league but he may be asked to join
> >> the practice team again to play against the olympic team since Nate
> >> is one of the coaches they should allow that.
>
> >> --
>
> > You're probably right. Just sayin' hope Blazer fans are not expecting
> > Yao like offense in November.
>
> I think they more expect him to be Oden with his game. Portland fans tend
> to be fairly knowledgable.
> I have heard them cheer a great pick and love shot blockers.
>
> I said before in a way the silver lining with the blazers being better than
> expected is it takes the pressure off of Oden to be an instant 'savior" as
> might have happened.
>
> --
> Laurel T
> "Basketball players win basketball games,
> "Athletes win track meets." Shane Battier

I agree with you about Portland fans. It's amazing the disparity
between fans and their level of knowledge. I think there is a huge
gap between the most knowledgeble (NY in my opinion) and the least
(Utah).....

Rizzo

On Mar 13, 7:30 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 6:00 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > > On Mar 12, 10:58 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > >>> On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>
> > >>>> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable
> > >>>> look at what Oden's impact could be. And the national power
> > >>>> rankings are already starting to turn their attention to how Oden
> > >>>> could help the Blazers next year.
>
> > >>> I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden. He's two
> > >>> years out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.
>
> > >> I am nothing but patient. However...
> > >> I think he was a little farther along than you think. Remember he
> > >> played the college season using only his off hand because his
> > >> shooting hand was broken. He has been able to practice shooting FTs
> > >> for a few weeks and now has seven months to work with the blazers
> > >> assistants, one of whom (monty williams) raised Joel's FT% from
> > >> under 50% to nearly 70% last summer and turned Travis into a good
> > >> jump shooter... besides the big man coach Luke.
>
> > >> They will not let him play summer league but he may be asked to join
> > >> the practice team again to play against the olympic team since Nate
> > >> is one of the coaches they should allow that.
>
> > >> --
>
> > > You're probably right. Just sayin' hope Blazer fans are not expecting
> > > Yao like offense in November.
>
> > I think they more expect him to be Oden with his game. Portland fans tend
> > to be fairly knowledgable.
> > I have heard them cheer a great pick and love shot blockers.
>
> > I said before in a way the silver lining with the blazers being better than
> > expected is it takes the pressure off of Oden to be an instant 'savior" as
> > might have happened.
>
> > --
> > Laurel T
> > "Basketball players win basketball games,
> > "Athletes win track meets." Shane Battier
>
> I agree with you about Portland fans. It's amazing the disparity
> between fans and their level of knowledge. I think there is a huge
> gap between the most knowledgeble (NY in my opinion) and the least
> (Utah).....
>
> Rizzo


Knowledge, schmoledge. What I know is that you have to go back to at
least Oden's junior year in high school to find a season that wasn't
abruptly stopped with a season-ending injury. And that was when he
was playing relatively patty cake high school and NCAA seasons, not
the notoriously grueling NBA seasons. He ended his first NBA season
while just thinking about it.

On Mar 14, 5:56 pm, Zeb Quinn <nastyg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 7:30 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 13, 6:00 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > > > On Mar 12, 10:58 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > > >>> On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>>http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>
> > > >>>> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable
> > > >>>> look at what Oden's impact could be. And the national power
> > > >>>> rankings are already starting to turn their attention to how Oden
> > > >>>> could help the Blazers next year.
>
> > > >>> I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden. He's two
> > > >>> years out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.
>
> > > >> I am nothing but patient. However...
> > > >> I think he was a little farther along than you think. Remember he
> > > >> played the college season using only his off hand because his
> > > >> shooting hand was broken. He has been able to practice shooting FTs
> > > >> for a few weeks and now has seven months to work with the blazers
> > > >> assistants, one of whom (monty williams) raised Joel's FT% from
> > > >> under 50% to nearly 70% last summer and turned Travis into a good
> > > >> jump shooter... besides the big man coach Luke.
>
> > > >> They will not let him play summer league but he may be asked to join
> > > >> the practice team again to play against the olympic team since Nate
> > > >> is one of the coaches they should allow that.
>
> > > >> --
>
> > > > You're probably right. Just sayin' hope Blazer fans are not expecting
> > > > Yao like offense in November.
>
> > > I think they more expect him to be Oden with his game. Portland fans tend
> > > to be fairly knowledgable.
> > > I have heard them cheer a great pick and love shot blockers.
>
> > > I said before in a way the silver lining with the blazers being better than
> > > expected is it takes the pressure off of Oden to be an instant 'savior" as
> > > might have happened.
>
> > > --
> > > Laurel T
> > > "Basketball players win basketball games,
> > > "Athletes win track meets." Shane Battier
>
> > I agree with you about Portland fans. It's amazing the disparity
> > between fans and their level of knowledge. I think there is a huge
> > gap between the most knowledgeble (NY in my opinion) and the least
> > (Utah).....
>
> > Rizzo
>
> Knowledge, schmoledge. What I know is that you have to go back to at
> least Oden's junior year in high school to find a season that wasn't
> abruptly stopped with a season-ending injury. And that was when he
> was playing relatively patty cake high school and NCAA seasons, not
> the notoriously grueling NBA seasons. He ended his first NBA season
> while just thinking about it.

Glass half empty...

Zeb Quinn wrote:
> On Mar 13, 7:30 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> What I know is that you have to go back to at
> least Oden's junior year in high school to find a season that wasn't
> abruptly stopped with a season-ending injury.

Well that is totally wrong right there...this was his first season ending
injury...

Lets see... led his HS team to three straight state titles and 45
consecutive wins... his HS season should have ended with the wrist but
instead he played with the injury.

http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2006/07/13/Sports/Injured.Oden.Uncertain.For.Seasons.Start-2131539.shtml
Oden, who shot 74 percent from the field and averaged 22 points and 10.5
rebounds a game during his senior season, first hurt his wrist during a
state tournament game in February but played through the injury. He later
went on to play in two national high school all-star games - the McDonald's
All-American Game in San Diego, in late March; and the Roundball Classic in
Chicago in April.

Ah here you go a HS game he missed because of the wrist...
Oden then was forced to drop out of the Indiana-Kentucky All-Star Game after
a visit to the doctor and a follow-up MRI in mid-June showed the injury had
not fully healed.

He came back and missed some games from that same wrist injury at the start
of the college season t... His college season ended at the champiomship game
in which he had 25 pts 12 rbs and 4 blks.


--
Laurel T
"If you can't say anything nice, sit next to me."
Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

On Mar 14, 8:45 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Zeb Quinn wrote:
> > On Mar 13, 7:30 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > What I know is that you have to go back to at
> > least Oden's junior year in high school to find a season that wasn't
> > abruptly stopped with a season-ending injury.
>
> Well that is totally wrong right there...this was his first season ending
> injury...
>
> Lets see... led his HS team to three straight state titles and 45
> consecutive wins... his HS season should have ended with the wrist but
> instead he played with the injury.
>
> http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2006/07/1...
> Oden, who shot 74 percent from the field and averaged 22 points and 10.5
> rebounds a game during his senior season, first hurt his wrist during a
> state tournament game in February but played through the injury. He later
> went on to play in two national high school all-star games - the McDonald's
> All-American Game in San Diego, in late March; and the Roundball Classic in
> Chicago in April.
>
> Ah here you go a HS game he missed because of the wrist...
> Oden then was forced to drop out of the Indiana-Kentucky All-Star Game after
> a visit to the doctor and a follow-up MRI in mid-June showed the injury had
> not fully healed.
>
> He came back and missed some games from that same wrist injury at the start
> of the college season t... His college season ended at the champiomship game
> in which he had 25 pts 12 rbs and 4 blks.
>
> --
> Laurel T
> "If you can't say anything nice, sit next to me."
> Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

Point for Laurel

On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Point for Laurel

Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries. High
school. College. Pro. I'm an old fart. I'm older than Bill Walton
(who also led his team to High School and NCAA championships). Which
also makes me older than Sam Bowie. If you don't know the history of
those two all-universe but very injury-prone centers, google them.
But me? I've seen this drama play out before.

The fun part is that we get to watch Oden next year and see how he
holds up. _Then_ we'll see.

On Mar 13, 7:00 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I think they more expect him to be Oden with his game. Portland fans tend
> to be fairly knowledgable.
> I have heard them cheer a great pick and love shot blockers.

I've heard them cheer someone played lock down defense (think the 99
team and Brian Grant).

As for his offensive abilities, I think people are just so used to big
men sucking at first, that they assume all will. Plus, a lot of
"smart" fans thought that Brandon would maybe average 13-15 ppg.

On Mar 15, 10:07 am, Zeb Quinn <nastyg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Point for Laurel
>
> Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.

Besides his wrist, what is his history of injuries?

High
> school. College. Pro. I'm an old fart. I'm older than Bill Walton
> (who also led his team to High School and NCAA championships). Which
> also makes me older than Sam Bowie. If you don't know the history of
> those two all-universe but very injury-prone centers, google them.
> But me? I've seen this drama play out before.

injuries of a genetic matter (Bowie had weak bones and Bill had bum
ankles) are not the same as someone breaking a wrist.

>
> The fun part is that we get to watch Oden next year and see how he
> holds up. _Then_ we'll see.

Zeb Quinn wrote:
> On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Point for Laurel
>
> Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.

So how is a torn ligiment in a wrist caused by trama in a game related to a
very small cartilige tear in his knee?

>High
> school. College.

The high school and college injury was the same injury, a wrist injury, he
did not miss games from that in HS and in college he learned to play with
his off hand which improves his game.


>Pro. I'm an old fart. I'm older than Bill Walton
> (who also led his team to High School and NCAA championships). Which
> also makes me older than Sam Bowie.

And I was an adult before the blazers were born...
I also know with the passage of time that Oden is not Bowie and Durant is
not Jordan.

> If you don't know the history of
> those two all-universe but very injury-prone centers, google them.
> But me? I've seen this drama play out before.

If you want to base your opinion on superstition instead of seeing the
difference then just wallow in your self imposed misery.
I suppose rockets fans can expect Yao will be healthy because Hakeem
was....

>
> The fun part is that we get to watch Oden next year and see how he
> holds up. _Then_ we'll see.

Somehow I think you want him down again just so you can claim how omipresent
you are... ;-)

Even if Oden is injury prone the results in his career need not be the
same.... if Bowie had today's medical advances an MRI available to
diagnosed it, less invasive surgery and the new method of microfracture
surgery when he was first injured instead of playing on injured knees he
might well have had a great long career. And if Walton had today's surgical
technique to rebuild his feet and ankles he might have continued playing as
has Ilgauskas. There are dozens of players playing today that have recovered
from what were career ending injuries prior to 1990.


--
Laurel T
It's what you learn after you know it all
that's important.
- Famous Horse Trainer Jimmy Williams

On Mar 15, 12:02 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Zeb Quinn wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> Point for Laurel
>
> > Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.
>
> So how is a torn ligiment in a wrist caused by trama in a game related to a
> very small cartilige tear in his knee?

It was a torn lig? Well shit, that even makes my point better.

Blazer Fan Dan wrote:
> On Mar 15, 12:02 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Zeb Quinn wrote:
>>> On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Point for Laurel
>>
>>> Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.
>>
>> So how is a torn ligiment in a wrist caused by trauma in a game
>> related to a very small cartilige tear in his knee?
>
> It was a torn lig? Well shit, that even makes my point better.


http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2006/07/13/Sports/Injured.Oden.Uncertain.For.Seasons.Start-2131539.shtml

Keefer compared Oden's injury to a torn ACL and said the ligament in his
right wrist is what gives a player the ability to grip the basketball.

"One thing's for sure: we're going to make sure he has a left hand once this
is all over," Matta told The Sporting News.

Zeb Quinn wrote:
> On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The fun part is that we get to watch Oden next year and see how he
> holds up. _Then_ we'll see.

http://cbs2.com/sports/PAU.GASOL.LAKERS.2.677967.html
Off the top head, here's a list of guys who are 6' 10" or taller that have
missed roughly 20 or more games in a season over the last three years:

Yao, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol (in Memphis), Stoudamire, Shaq, Greg Oden,
Robert Swift, Brad Miller, Elton Brand, Lamar Odom, Chris Mihm, Andrew
Bynum, Nene, Andrew Bogut, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Kwame Brown, Nenad Kristic,
Theo Ratliff, Alonzo Mourning, Antonio McDyess, Jermaine O'Neal. (Throw in
Joel, Brian Cook, Mihn, Bargnani, Bosh, and SAR off the top of mine with
close to 20)

Here's a list, again off the top of my head, of guys who are 6' 10" or
taller who have played consistently without missing a long stretch over the
last three years:

Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and Dwight Howard.

The bottom line is that the legs of guys who are that tall aren't built to
take the pounding of an NBA season. For every hall of fame player like
Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon or Ewing....there are twenty guys who spent their
careers injured more times than not.

On Mar 15, 5:34 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Zeb Quinn wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The fun part is that we get to watch Oden next year and see how he
> > holds up. _Then_ we'll see.
>
> http://cbs2.com/sports/PAU.GASOL.LAKERS.2.677967.html
> Off the top head, here's a list of guys who are 6' 10" or taller that have
> missed roughly 20 or more games in a season over the last three years:
>
> Yao, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol (in Memphis), Stoudamire, Shaq, Greg Oden,
> Robert Swift, Brad Miller, Elton Brand, Lamar Odom, Chris Mihm, Andrew
> Bynum, Nene, Andrew Bogut, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Kwame Brown, Nenad Kristic,
> Theo Ratliff, Alonzo Mourning, Antonio McDyess, Jermaine O'Neal. (Throw in
> Joel, Brian Cook, Mihn, Bargnani, Bosh, and SAR off the top of mine with
> close to 20)
>
> Here's a list, again off the top of my head, of guys who are 6' 10" or
> taller who have played consistently without missing a long stretch over the
> last three years:
>
> Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and Dwight Howard.
>
> The bottom line is that the legs of guys who are that tall aren't built to
> take the pounding of an NBA season. For every hall of fame player like
> Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon or Ewing....there are twenty guys who spent their
> careers injured more times than not.

It was a great list until you put Robert Swift and Chris Mihm in there
with all those STUD athletes. WTF? Swift may turn out to be good,
but he blew your list. I know it's beside the point, just sayin.

Rizzo

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Mar 15, 5:34 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Zeb Quinn wrote:
>>> On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> The fun part is that we get to watch Oden next year and see how he
>>> holds up. _Then_ we'll see.
>>

>> http://cbs2.com/sports/PAU.GASOL.LAKERS.2.677967.html
>> Off the top head, here's a list of guys who are 6' 10" or taller
>> that have missed roughly 20 or more games in a season over the last
>> three years:
>>
>> Yao, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol (in Memphis), Stoudamire, Shaq, Greg
>> Oden, Robert Swift, Brad Miller, Elton Brand, Lamar Odom, Chris
>> Mihm, Andrew Bynum, Nene, Andrew Bogut, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Kwame
>> Brown, Nenad Kristic, Theo Ratliff, Alonzo Mourning, Antonio
>> McDyess, Jermaine O'Neal. (Throw in Joel, Brian Cook, Mihn,
>> Bargnani, Bosh, and SAR off the top of mine with close to 20)
>>
>> Here's a list, again off the top of my head, of guys who are 6' 10"
>> or taller who have played consistently without missing a long
>> stretch over the last three years:
>>
>> Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and Dwight Howard.
>>
>> The bottom line is that the legs of guys who are that tall aren't
>> built to take the pounding of an NBA season. For every hall of fame
>> player like Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon or Ewing....there are twenty guys
>> who spent their careers injured more times than not.
>
> It was a great list until you put Robert Swift and Chris Mihm in there
> with all those STUD athletes. WTF? Swift may turn out to be good,
> but he blew your list.

Was not my list

> I know it's beside the point,

Right... the list is of NBA players over 6' 10" and that size making them
injury prone.

>just sayin.

Why? ;-)


--
"You can run a lot of plays when your X is
twice as big as the other guys' O.
It makes your X's and O's pretty good."
-Paul Westphal

On Mar 16, 7:39 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > On Mar 15, 5:34 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Zeb Quinn wrote:
> >>> On Mar 14, 10:57 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> The fun part is that we get to watch Oden next year and see how he
> >>> holds up. _Then_ we'll see.
>
> >>http://cbs2.com/sports/PAU.GASOL.LAKERS.2.677967.html
> >> Off the top head, here's a list of guys who are 6' 10" or taller
> >> that have missed roughly 20 or more games in a season over the last
> >> three years:
>
> >> Yao, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol (in Memphis), Stoudamire, Shaq, Greg
> >> Oden, Robert Swift, Brad Miller, Elton Brand, Lamar Odom, Chris
> >> Mihm, Andrew Bynum, Nene, Andrew Bogut, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Kwame
> >> Brown, Nenad Kristic, Theo Ratliff, Alonzo Mourning, Antonio
> >> McDyess, Jermaine O'Neal. (Throw in Joel, Brian Cook, Mihn,
> >> Bargnani, Bosh, and SAR off the top of mine with close to 20)
>
> >> Here's a list, again off the top of my head, of guys who are 6' 10"
> >> or taller who have played consistently without missing a long
> >> stretch over the last three years:
>
> >> Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and Dwight Howard.
>
> >> The bottom line is that the legs of guys who are that tall aren't
> >> built to take the pounding of an NBA season. For every hall of fame
> >> player like Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon or Ewing....there are twenty guys
> >> who spent their careers injured more times than not.
>
> > It was a great list until you put Robert Swift and Chris Mihm in there
> > with all those STUD athletes. WTF? Swift may turn out to be good,
> > but he blew your list.
>
> Was not my list
>
> > I know it's beside the point,
>
> Right... the list is of NBA players over 6' 10" and that size making them
> injury prone.
>
> >just sayin.
>
> Why? ;-)
>


AK47: Coach I'm not getting enough shots.

Sloan: Feel free to shoot any offensive rebounds you get.

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Mar 16, 7:39 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank Rizzo wrote:

>>
>>> just sayin.
>>
>> Why? ;-)
>>
>
>
> AK47: Coach I'm not getting enough shots.
>
> Sloan: Feel free to shoot any offensive rebounds you get.

That reminded me of this story:

Motta: "We were at Golden State in 1980, my first year here. They
had a halftime act with a huge Bengal tiger and a monkey. The monkey
would shoot basketballs and the tiger would go retrieve them. I watched
the act for awhile and then I asked the trainer if she would do me a favor
and let me borrow her tiger.
I said, 'Is it a nice tiger?' and she said
it was.
I said, 'Will it bite me?' and she said no.
I had her knock on the door when her act was over. We were still in the
dressing room at
halftime.
She knocked on the door, and I reached out and got that tiger
by its leash and collar and walked it in.
The players all scattered. I said, 'If you guys don't start rebounding, I'm
going to let this tiger
eat.'
At the time, the players didn't think it was funny. They didn't
laugh. But it was funny. It was great."

On Mar 15, 11:36 am, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.
>
> Besides his wrist, what is his history of injuries?

Uhh. Geee. Lemmeee see. Golly gosh. Hrmmm. a doop doop doop.
Wait..... still thinkin' ..... and thinkin .... Wait...
Wait... I got it!!!! Here it is: Does a BLOWN OUT KNEE
count????????? How about that? Ya think?

And that ain't even getting to his back which was reported to be
ailing last summer, before the knee moved to front and center.

So what we have here is a 19-year old already with back problems and
knee problems, and he hasn't played even one second of the notoriously
grueling NBA season yet, particularly when it comes to the knees and
backs on 7-foot centers.

Look, I hope he's all he's billed to be. I hope he has a magnificent
career. I was a big advocate of picking him over Durant. But that
was before these injuries. Now I have a very bad feeling about
this. Chronic back and knee problems aren't good for 19 year olds.
Or 7-footers. It's very bad in fact. Then you look at his history,
and there's nothing there to help. It just gets worse if anything.
Like I said, I'm old and I've seen this act before. And so I'm not
getting my hopes up and salivating for Oden to return. I expect
nothing from him at this point. And it's best for him physically and
psychologically if no one else does either. That's where I'm at.
Okay?

Zeb Quinn wrote:
> On Mar 15, 11:36 am, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.
>>
>> Besides his wrist, what is his history of injuries?
>
> Uhh. Geee. Lemmeee see. Golly gosh. Hrmmm. a doop doop doop.
> Wait..... still thinkin' ..... and thinkin .... Wait...
> Wait... I got it!!!! Here it is: Does a BLOWN OUT KNEE
> count?????????

He did not have a blown out knee, he had a cartilage tear the size of a
dime.
In the past he would had played on it.

> How about that? Ya think?

You indicted he had season ending injuries in HS and College before he was
drafted.

>
> And that ain't even getting to his back which was reported to be
> ailing last summer, before the knee moved to front and center.

There was rumor he had a back problem but it did not show in the MRIs and
X-rays.

>
> So what we have here is a 19-year old already with back problems and
> knee problems, and he hasn't played even one second of the notoriously
> grueling NBA season yet, particularly when it comes to the knees and
> backs on 7-foot centers.



>
> Look, I hope he's all he's billed to be. I hope he has a magnificent
> career. I was a big advocate of picking him over Durant. But that
> was before these injuries. Now I have a very bad feeling about
> this. Chronic back and knee problems aren't good for 19 year olds.

Chronic?
Bird, Hakeem, TMac, Pippen, Shaq, and dozens of others have had some back
problems.



> Or 7-footers. It's very bad in fact. Then you look at his history,
> and there's nothing there to help. It just gets worse if anything.
> Like I said, I'm old and I've seen this act before.

And I say again the medicine is better. In the past a surgury was not
available to make the baody replace the cartilage, instead they cut open the
knee and removed it. Bowie retired with bone rubbing bone.

And so I'm not
> getting my hopes up and salivating for Oden to return. I expect
> nothing from him at this point. And it's best for him physically and
> psychologically if no one else does either. That's where I'm at.
> Okay?

Likely so. But the pressure will come from himself not us.


--
Laurel T
"Superstar- A player who hears what he
doesn't want to hear, sees what he doesn't
want to see, and does what he doesn't want to do"
-Unknown

On Mar 17, 11:04 am, Zeb Quinn <nastyg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 15, 11:36 am, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.
>
> > Besides his wrist, what is his history of injuries?
>
> Uhh. Geee. Lemmeee see. Golly gosh. Hrmmm. a doop doop doop.
> Wait..... still thinkin' ..... and thinkin .... Wait...
> Wait... I got it!!!! Here it is: Does a BLOWN OUT KNEE
> count????????? How about that? Ya think?
>
> And that ain't even getting to his back which was reported to be
> ailing last summer, before the knee moved to front and center.
>
> So what we have here is a 19-year old already with back problems and
> knee problems, and he hasn't played even one second of the notoriously
> grueling NBA season yet, particularly when it comes to the knees and
> backs on 7-foot centers.
>
> Look, I hope he's all he's billed to be. I hope he has a magnificent
> career. I was a big advocate of picking him over Durant. But that
> was before these injuries. Now I have a very bad feeling about
> this. Chronic back and knee problems aren't good for 19 year olds.
> Or 7-footers. It's very bad in fact. Then you look at his history,
> and there's nothing there to help. It just gets worse if anything.
> Like I said, I'm old and I've seen this act before. And so I'm not
> getting my hopes up and salivating for Oden to return. I expect
> nothing from him at this point. And it's best for him physically and
> psychologically if no one else does either. That's where I'm at.
> Okay?

If it's any comfort to you all, I had low back problems in my early
twenties. I received chiropractic treatments and have had no low back
issues in the last 15-20 years...

Rizzo

On Mar 17, 12:04 pm, Zeb Quinn <nastyg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 15, 11:36 am, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.
>
> > Besides his wrist, what is his history of injuries?
>
> Uhh. Geee. Lemmeee see. Golly gosh. Hrmmm. a doop doop doop.
> Wait..... still thinkin' ..... and thinkin .... Wait...
> Wait... I got it!!!! Here it is: Does a BLOWN OUT KNEE
> count????????? How about that? Ya think?

2 injuries, of which one is a lig injury and the other was actually
not a necessary procedure, does not a history of injuries make.

> And that ain't even getting to his back which was reported to be
> ailing last summer, before the knee moved to front and center.

iirc, he was "ailing" with tonsilitis.
>
> So what we have here is a 19-year old already with back problems and
> knee problems, and he hasn't played even one second of the notoriously
> grueling NBA season yet, particularly when it comes to the knees and
> backs on 7-foot centers.

I don't remember any back injury.

> Look, I hope he's all he's billed to be. I hope he has a magnificent
> career. I was a big advocate of picking him over Durant. But that
> was before these injuries.

You were an advocate of the Blazers picking him before he had his
wrist injury (in high school)? Before they even had the pick?

Now I have a very bad feeling about
> this. Chronic back and knee problems aren't good for 19 year olds.
> Or 7-footers. It's very bad in fact. Then you look at his history,
> and there's nothing there to help. It just gets worse if anything.
> Like I said, I'm old and I've seen this act before. And so I'm not
> getting my hopes up and salivating for Oden to return. I expect
> nothing from him at this point. And it's best for him physically and
> psychologically if no one else does either. That's where I'm at.
> Okay?

I don't remember there being "chronic" back issues (other then being
tall, which as a tall person, any tall person, leads to back issues).

On Mar 17, 3:08 pm, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 17, 12:04 pm, Zeb Quinn <nastyg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 15, 11:36 am, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Spin it any way you want. He has a history of injuries.
>
> > > Besides his wrist, what is his history of injuries?
>
> > Uhh. Geee. Lemmeee see. Golly gosh. Hrmmm. a doop doop doop.
> > Wait..... still thinkin' ..... and thinkin .... Wait...
> > Wait... I got it!!!! Here it is: Does a BLOWN OUT KNEE
> > count????????? How about that? Ya think?
>
> 2 injuries, of which one is a lig injury and the other was actually
> not a necessary procedure, does not a history of injuries make.
>
> > And that ain't even getting to his back which was reported to be
> > ailing last summer, before the knee moved to front and center.
>
> iirc, he was "ailing" with tonsilitis.
>
>
>
> > So what we have here is a 19-year old already with back problems and
> > knee problems, and he hasn't played even one second of the notoriously
> > grueling NBA season yet, particularly when it comes to the knees and
> > backs on 7-foot centers.
>
> I don't remember any back injury.
>
> > Look, I hope he's all he's billed to be. I hope he has a magnificent
> > career. I was a big advocate of picking him over Durant. But that
> > was before these injuries.
>
> You were an advocate of the Blazers picking him before he had his
> wrist injury (in high school)? Before they even had the pick?
>
> Now I have a very bad feeling about
>
> > this. Chronic back and knee problems aren't good for 19 year olds.
> > Or 7-footers. It's very bad in fact. Then you look at his history,
> > and there's nothing there to help. It just gets worse if anything.
> > Like I said, I'm old and I've seen this act before. And so I'm not
> > getting my hopes up and salivating for Oden to return. I expect
> > nothing from him at this point. And it's best for him physically and
> > psychologically if no one else does either. That's where I'm at.
> > Okay?
>
> I don't remember there being "chronic" back issues (other then being
> tall, which as a tall person, any tall person, leads to back issues).

Dude, I think you're right. I don't remember a back problem either.
I think it was tonsilitis..

Rizzo

Frank Rizzo wrote:
> On Mar 17, 3:08 pm, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 17, 12:04 pm, Zeb Quinn <nastyg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't remember there being "chronic" back issues (other then being
>> tall, which as a tall person, any tall person, leads to back issues).
>
> Dude, I think you're right. I don't remember a back problem either.
> I think it was tonsilitis..
>


There was a rumor about a bludging disc in his back at the time of the
draft. But he passed every MRI and X-ray in the book predraft. Wrist,
shoulders, elbows, knees and back. Sometimes rumors are started to try to
knock players down in the draft.

On Mar 17, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sometimes rumors are started to try to
> knock players down in the draft.


I remember some ugly drug rumors about Chris Washburn before the
draft. Thank goodness the Warriors weren't stupid enough to fall for
it, and picked him #3 overall. It turned out great!

Rizzo

On Mar 17, 8:39 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dude, I think you're right. I don't remember a back problem either.
> I think it was tonsilitis..
>
> Rizzo

I haven't read Laurel's response, but I vaguely remember there being
rumblings about a back issue, but I think there was an issue implied
by knee jerk fans. That doesn't mean there was none, but I'm just not
remembering it..of course, my memory ain't what it used to be.

On Mar 17, 10:00 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 17, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sometimes rumors are started to try to
>
> > knock players down in the draft.
>
> I remember some ugly drug rumors about Chris Washburn before the
> draft. Thank goodness the Warriors weren't stupid enough to fall for
> it, and picked him #3 overall. It turned out great!
>
> Rizzo

It's amazing how many teams make blunder picks. But there's a
difference in ignoring drug concerns (I would guess they did?) and
going out of their way to check into the mri's, x-rays and physicals
of the player.

I think todays GM's/Teams spend a lot more time and energy (at least,
the smart ones) in checking into the background/overall health of a
player, than they did even 10 years ago.

On Mar 18, 5:51 am, Blazer Fan Dan <BlazerFan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 17, 10:00 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 17, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Sometimes rumors are started to try to
>
> > > knock players down in the draft.
>
> > I remember some ugly drug rumors about Chris Washburn before the
> > draft. Thank goodness the Warriors weren't stupid enough to fall for
> > it, and picked him #3 overall. It turned out great!
>
> > Rizzo
>
> It's amazing how many teams make blunder picks. But there's a
> difference in ignoring drug concerns (I would guess they did?) and
> going out of their way to check into the mri's, x-rays and physicals
> of the player.
>
> I think todays GM's/Teams spend a lot more time and energy (at least,
> the smart ones) in checking into the background/overall health of a
> player, than they did even 10 years ago.

Interestingly enough he was about 25 picks ahead of Nate McMillan...

On Mar 14, 9:17 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 14, 5:56 pm, Zeb Quinn <nastyg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 13, 7:30 pm, Frank Rizzo <champ91...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 13, 6:00 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > > > > On Mar 12, 10:58 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Frank Rizzo wrote:
> > > > >>> On Mar 12, 8:29 pm, "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>http://basketboltr.net/2008/03/13/looking-at-greg-odens-possible-impact/
>
> > > > >>>> It's all speculation, of course. But I think it's a very reasonable
> > > > >>>> look at what Oden's impact could be. And the national power
> > > > >>>> rankings are already starting to turn their attention to how Oden
> > > > >>>> could help the Blazers next year.
>
> > > > >>> I think offensively you have to be patient with Oden.  He's two
> > > > >>> years out of high school and didn't get to practice much this year.
>
> > > > >> I am nothing but patient. However...
> > > > >> I think he was a little farther along than you think. Remember he
> > > > >> played the college season using only his off hand because his
> > > > >> shooting hand was broken. He has been able to practice shooting FTs
> > > > >> for a few weeks and now has seven months to work with the blazers
> > > > >> assistants, one of whom (monty williams) raised Joel's FT% from
> > > > >> under 50% to nearly 70% last summer and turned Travis into a good
> > > > >> jump shooter... besides the big man coach Luke.
>
> > > > >> They will not let him play summer league but he may be asked to join
> > > > >> the practice team again to play against the olympic team since Nate
> > > > >> is one of the coaches they should allow that.
>
> > > > >> --
>
> > > > > You're probably right.  Just sayin' hope Blazer fans are not expecting
> > > > > Yao like offense in November.
>
> > > > I think they more expect him to be Oden with his game.  Portland fans tend
> > > > to be fairly knowledgable.
> > > > I have heard them cheer a great pick and love shot blockers.
>
> > > > I said before in a way the silver lining with the blazers being better than
> > > > expected is it takes the pressure off of Oden to be an instant 'savior" as
> > > > might have happened.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Laurel T
> > > > "Basketball players win basketball games,
> > > > "Athletes win track meets."  Shane Battier
>
> > > I agree with you about Portland fans.  It's amazing the disparity
> > > between fans and their level of knowledge.  I think there is a huge
> > > gap between the most knowledgeble (NY in my opinion) and the least
> > > (Utah).....
>
> > > Rizzo
>
> > Knowledge, schmoledge.  What I know is that you have to go back to at
> > least Oden's junior year in high school to find a season that wasn't
> > abruptly stopped with a season-ending injury.  And that was when he
> > was playing relatively patty cake high school and NCAA seasons, not
> > the notoriously grueling NBA seasons.  He ended his first NBA season
> > while just thinking about it.
>
> Glass half empty...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
half empty, half full, what the fuck's the difference?