View Full Version : The Atlantic Division Now...


777
08-02-2007, 06:16 PM
It's August, it's hot and there's nothing else really to do around my
house right now (construction officially begins next week), so let's
spark up some debate about what has become the new-look Atlantic
Division.

I complied the rosters as they stand right now. Obviously there will
be a few more moves made by the Knicks (who have too many players) and
the Celtics (who don't have enough) and who knows, perhaps the Nets
will try to get back into the Jermaine O'Neal situation now that KG
has shifted the balance of power for Boston.

Let's rub some Nets fans the wrong way here and build on our theory
that they are the team to put in the red this season. I'm not saying
they are the worst team -- Philadelphia is going to have it's hands
full with that very young and very raw roster -- and I'm not saying
the Knicks are better, but the Nets are the team that seems most
likely to regress, even with J-Kidd running the show and working the
strings that operate Lawrence Frank (who just got a contract
extension, don'tcha know).

This is how the Knicks match up, in my mind:


The Nets (41-41) added Jamaal Magloire to beef up the post (an obvious
answer to the Knicks' bulk down low) and the free agency loss of Mikki
Moore will hurt because he was a Knick killer. Magloire and Jason
Collins can handle the physical battle with Curry down low, but who
will take on Zach Randolph? Nenad Krstic is coming off major knee
surgery. Kidd is still better than Marbury at the point and the Knicks
did nothing to improve a glaring weakness that Kidd often exploits:
help defense. I'll take Q-Rich on RJ for the most part, as long as
Q-Rich is healthy. Vince Carter-Jamal Crawford is a tough matchup for
Jamal, especially if VC posts him up.

The Nets starting five is still a pretty solid matchup, but the bench
just doesn't impress you at all. Perhaps the most effective player
they would have off the bench is Nachbar, but D-Lee is more effective.
House and he isn't signed yet and could go elsewhere. Marcus Williams
has a lot to prove after his performance level (and attitude) dropped
off in the second half of the season. Mardy Collins almost has pulled
even with him. Renaldo Balkman has the potential (and the
determination) to drive Carter crazy if VC starts going off. Isiah can
put Balkman on him and kill that trademark momentum that Carter
thrives on.

Key Possible Move: Jermaine O'Neal. Potential: Unlikely.


Toronto (47-35) won the division because they are a very difficult
team to defend, especially during the regular season. Bryan Colangelo
went way off the blueprint of a typical Eastern Conference team and
stuck with it during the offseason, when he grabbed Carlos Delfino and
Jason Kapono. This team has the best bench in the division, with
Bargnani and Calderon and Kris Humphries. Nesterovic is difficult to
for Curry to defend because he can nail long-range jumpers and pulls
him away from the paint, where he is very uncomfortable. Chris Bosh is
very similar to KG, just not as polished. TJ Ford just shreds the
Knick defense and is a master at drive-and-kick to the many perimeter
shooters the Raps have. I don't like this matchup for the Knicks at
all. Bench-wise, the Raps have a lot of offense coming into the game,
from Bargnani to Delfino to Calderon, etc. This team still has some
growing up to do, but they are good and built well. They just lack a
lightning rod - perhaps Bosh will emerge to be a leader - to put them
over the top.

Key Possible Move: Charles Oakley. Potential: Doubtful, but they sure
could use his kind of veteran leadership and grit to bring it all
together.


The Celtics (24-58) as they were last season had good matchups against
the Knicks. I thought Al Jefferson gave Curry a great effort several
times and he outplayed him in the team's final meeting in Boston.
Pierce seems to love playing at the Garden and we know Ray Allen does,
too. The perimeter D will be put to the test in these games and that's
what makes keeping Jared Jeffries on the team an important move
(unless Ron Artest arrives). Jeffries early in the season did a good
job on Pierce. His length helps. But the Celtics have the ability to
make it rain at MSG. All KG has to do is battle Zach and Eddy for
rebounds. We know he jumps higher than both, so...
But here's where Marbury comes in. This is a game for him to dominate
because he is physically stronger than Rondo. He can do a lot of
drive-and-dish stuff to draw KG away from the bigs and set them up.
Crawford can make Allen play defense, which Allen showed he didn't
like to do when Crawford played him in Seattle last season. That
Celtics bench right now is very, very young and not very impressive,
so foul trouble can be an issue. Curry and Randolph thrive on drawing
fouls but Curry is also prone to them, too. These will be great games.
The difference between the Knicks and Celtics right now lies between
the ears: KG and Allen have led their teams to conference finals.
Pierce has been there, too. Zach and Eddy have yet to experience that
level of winning in the NBA. Marbury either.

Key Possible Move: A point guard (they have a mid-level exception to
use) and Dikembe Mutombo. Potential: Both very likely.


The Sixers (35-47) had a strong finish once the Allen Iverson/Chris
Webber distractions were gone and they were a surprisingly tough team.
Their key stat is a 9-7 record against Atlantic Division opponents
(and Knicks fans know they frustrated the Knicks all season). The
Knicks were 3-13 against the Atlantic, which is inexcusable.
Philadelphia may have only gotten younger this season, with four
rookies, including Thaddeus Young and Jason Smith, but Andre Iguodala
is still tough to guard and Sam Dalembert uses his quickness well
against Curry. Kyle Korver also gets over screens easily when you
don't play him physical. The Knicks have to take this team seriously
this season because every win will matter. They should dominate these
games.

Key Possible Move: Kobe Bryant. Potential: Dennis Kucinich has a
better shot at the presidency.


So if I'm putting strength-of-roster ratings into a ranking, here's
what I come up with:

1. Toronto - well-rounded, from starters to bench. only lack a
winner's grit.
2. Boston - top-heavy with an empty bench.
3. New Jersey - Big 3 and more size, but ability to stay healthy, not
to mention the motivation to bring it every night through a long
winter, is questioned.
(tie) Knicks - chemistry experiment that will either be explosive or
implosive.
4. Philadelphia - early lottery favorites who can spoil a few parties
along the way.

Tell me why I'm right or wrong. In the meanwhile, I owe my kids some
fun in the sun for the rest of the afternoon.

Grimm-RHD
08-09-2007, 02:10 PM
On Aug 2, 1:16 pm, 777 <Se...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It's August, it's hot and there's nothing else really to do around my
> house right now (construction officially begins next week), so let's
> spark up some debate about what has become the new-look Atlantic
> Division.

In the Nets NG? You'll hardly spark anything. This NG is as dead as
the Meadowlands on a Tuesday night.


> Let's rub some Nets fans the wrong way here and build on our theory
> that they are the team to put in the red this season.

To be honest from a huge Nets fan, as few and as far inbetween as they
come, I agree that they have the potential to regress. Yet I feel it
won't be as much as some would think depending on the injuries this
season. In a rare feat last season Kidd put together back to back
full seasons, and while he has started to slip stat-wise, he should
still stick to his career numbers. (The past two seasons, he's played
above them). Now, I do expect an injury...which will probably take 20
games from him this season...which also means Nets fans are going to
see a lot of Marcus Williams.

Speaking about injuries, Jefferson and Krsti are now healthy.
(Though Krsti is still rehabbing). Last season the Nets relied
heavily on their bench at times. Players like Carter were forced to
play over their career marks. Which won't happen again...unless there
are more major injuries. Both Jefferson and Krsti are going to be
welcomed returns.


> This is how the Knicks match up, in my mind:
>
> The Nets (41-41) added Jamaal Magloire to beef up the post

While I do not like the pick up, they have at least addressed a major
need from last season...Rebounds. Currently Magloire ranks 18th in
the NBA for rebounds.

> and the free agency loss of Mikki
> Moore will hurt because he was a Knick killer.

This I agree, his loss will be felt. But it wasn't without trying.
Let's remember with Krsti coming back, Moore would be once again
reduced to bench player. Strengthening the bench. Yet even with his
numbers being lost, I wouldn't have paid the 3-year / $18M the Kings
paid for a bench player that had a career year. Let's also keep in
mind the he will be competing with 4 other guys for playing time.


> Magloire and Jason
> Collins can handle the physical battle with Curry down low, but who
> will take on Zach Randolph? Nenad Krsti is coming off major knee
> surgery.

I can agree here, but it really comes down to where the strengths
are. Randolph will not be the savior for NY. He will be a great
player if he keeps his temper in check. If anything Randolph
represents the erasing of a mistake signing in Francis...but also
represents a steep price in dealing Frye. While dropping "Mr. Injury"
Francis is a blessing, NY also gained 2 years of age between Randolph
and Frye.

And I am not completely sure that Krsti is going to be at full
strength this season anyway. But considering that both Marbury and
Randolph will be fighting each other for the ball. As a Nets fan I'm
not worried about the Knicks.


> I'll take Q-Rich on RJ for the most part, as long as
> Q-Rich is healthy.

Which like Kidd is asking a lot. Q-Rich, as you put it, will suffer
his annual injury that takes half his season away. He hasn't played a
full season since 2004, and before that, 2001.


Vince Carter-Jamal Crawford is a tough matchup for
> Jamal, especially if VC posts him up.

As stated above, Carter will not play above his numbers again, not
when he has help this season. Plus Nets fans are waiting for the
injury to hit. But Crawford hasn't been a full-time starter AND been
healthy in the same season since he was with the Bulls in 2003.


> The Nets starting five is still a pretty solid matchup, but the bench
> just doesn't impress you at all.

The loss of Moore hurts the bench. With that said the pick up of
Magloire puts Collins on the bench, which also helps in that regard.
Collins is much more effective when coming off the bench. The return
of Jefferson and Krsti will allow the Nets to feel out the bench.
Something they couldn't do last season. With Wright back on the
bench, it will also give him time to grow...without being placed in
over his head, like last season. Nachbar once again becomes the Nets
6th man, which is fine. Boone is still young, and his injury last
summer hurt his rookie season, which was still promising. He'll be
coming in at full strength this time around.

I would call the Nets bench unproven, before I'd call it "not
impressive".


> House and he isn't signed yet and could go elsewhere.

House signed a deal for Boston on August 1st, 2007.


> Marcus Williams
> has a lot to prove after his performance level (and attitude) dropped
> off in the second half of the season.

His attitude is why he dropped to the Nets during the draft. It was
expected. It's how the Nets handle him that will define him now.


> Renaldo Balkman has the potential (and the
> determination) to drive Carter crazy if VC starts going off. Isiah can
> put Balkman on him and kill that trademark momentum that Carter
> thrives on.

Let's keep in mind, at the time the Knicks were deciding on Balkman or
Marcus Williams with their draft pick. Balkman may not have even been
drafted if Thoms didn't select him 20th overall. (He wasn't even
listed in the NBA "Official" Draft Guide).


> Key Possible Move: Jermaine O'Neal. Potential: Unlikely.

I agree here, and even further I hope it does not happen. While he'd
be an upgrade over Magloire. The fact that it would take a kings
ransom to trade for (including Jefferson AND Krsti ) for an injury
prone player who complains...alot is too much. The Nets already have
Kidd for that role, and all he cost was Marbury.

I'll agree with the most part about the Atlantic Division. Toronto is
still a good team, and it will come down to Boston's health if the
stand alone. Remember they dropped like flies last season. If that
were to happen this season they have no one left to compete.

NJ falls or stands with Jefferson, Carter, Kidd, the exact same way
they did with Kidd, Jefferson, Martin. They have always lacked a
competent big man in the middle. While I do not like Magloire. He'll
do in a pinch.

Grimm-RHD

777
09-07-2007, 05:19 PM
On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:10:19 -0000, Grimm-RHD <dwyer@echoes.net>
wrote:

>On Aug 2, 1:16 pm, 777 <Se...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> It's August, it's hot and there's nothing else really to do around my
>> house right now (construction officially begins next week), so let's
>> spark up some debate about what has become the new-look Atlantic
>> Division.
>
>In the Nets NG? You'll hardly spark anything. This NG is as dead as
>the Meadowlands on a Tuesday night.
>
>
I couldn't agree with you more. This group is as dead as can be.

>> Let's rub some Nets fans the wrong way here and build on our theory
>> that they are the team to put in the red this season.
>
>To be honest from a huge Nets fan, as few and as far inbetween as they
>come, I agree that they have the potential to regress. Yet I feel it
>won't be as much as some would think depending on the injuries this
>season. In a rare feat last season Kidd put together back to back
>full seasons, and while he has started to slip stat-wise, he should
>still stick to his career numbers. (The past two seasons, he's played
>above them). Now, I do expect an injury...which will probably take 20
>games from him this season...which also means Nets fans are going to
>see a lot of Marcus Williams.
>
>Speaking about injuries, Jefferson and Krsti are now healthy.
>(Though Krsti is still rehabbing). Last season the Nets relied
>heavily on their bench at times. Players like Carter were forced to
>play over their career marks. Which won't happen again...unless there
>are more major injuries. Both Jefferson and Krsti are going to be
>welcomed returns.
>
>
>> This is how the Knicks match up, in my mind:
>>
>> The Nets (41-41) added Jamaal Magloire to beef up the post
>
>While I do not like the pick up, they have at least addressed a major
>need from last season...Rebounds. Currently Magloire ranks 18th in
>the NBA for rebounds.
>
>> and the free agency loss of Mikki
>> Moore will hurt because he was a Knick killer.
>
>This I agree, his loss will be felt. But it wasn't without trying.
>Let's remember with Krsti coming back, Moore would be once again
>reduced to bench player. Strengthening the bench. Yet even with his
>numbers being lost, I wouldn't have paid the 3-year / $18M the Kings
>paid for a bench player that had a career year. Let's also keep in
>mind the he will be competing with 4 other guys for playing time.
>
>
>> Magloire and Jason
>> Collins can handle the physical battle with Curry down low, but who
>> will take on Zach Randolph? Nenad Krsti is coming off major knee
>> surgery.
>
>I can agree here, but it really comes down to where the strengths
>are. Randolph will not be the savior for NY. He will be a great
>player if he keeps his temper in check. If anything Randolph
>represents the erasing of a mistake signing in Francis...but also
>represents a steep price in dealing Frye. While dropping "Mr. Injury"
>Francis is a blessing, NY also gained 2 years of age between Randolph
>and Frye.
>
>And I am not completely sure that Krsti is going to be at full
>strength this season anyway. But considering that both Marbury and
>Randolph will be fighting each other for the ball. As a Nets fan I'm
>not worried about the Knicks.
>
>
>> I'll take Q-Rich on RJ for the most part, as long as
>> Q-Rich is healthy.
>
>Which like Kidd is asking a lot. Q-Rich, as you put it, will suffer
>his annual injury that takes half his season away. He hasn't played a
>full season since 2004, and before that, 2001.
>
>
> Vince Carter-Jamal Crawford is a tough matchup for
>> Jamal, especially if VC posts him up.
>
>As stated above, Carter will not play above his numbers again, not
>when he has help this season. Plus Nets fans are waiting for the
>injury to hit. But Crawford hasn't been a full-time starter AND been
>healthy in the same season since he was with the Bulls in 2003.
>
>
>> The Nets starting five is still a pretty solid matchup, but the bench
>> just doesn't impress you at all.
>
>The loss of Moore hurts the bench. With that said the pick up of
>Magloire puts Collins on the bench, which also helps in that regard.
>Collins is much more effective when coming off the bench. The return
>of Jefferson and Krsti will allow the Nets to feel out the bench.
>Something they couldn't do last season. With Wright back on the
>bench, it will also give him time to grow...without being placed in
>over his head, like last season. Nachbar once again becomes the Nets
>6th man, which is fine. Boone is still young, and his injury last
>summer hurt his rookie season, which was still promising. He'll be
>coming in at full strength this time around.
>
>I would call the Nets bench unproven, before I'd call it "not
>impressive".
>
>
>> House and he isn't signed yet and could go elsewhere.
>
>House signed a deal for Boston on August 1st, 2007.
>
>
>> Marcus Williams
>> has a lot to prove after his performance level (and attitude) dropped
>> off in the second half of the season.
>
>His attitude is why he dropped to the Nets during the draft. It was
>expected. It's how the Nets handle him that will define him now.
>
>
>> Renaldo Balkman has the potential (and the
>> determination) to drive Carter crazy if VC starts going off. Isiah can
>> put Balkman on him and kill that trademark momentum that Carter
>> thrives on.
>
>Let's keep in mind, at the time the Knicks were deciding on Balkman or
>Marcus Williams with their draft pick. Balkman may not have even been
>drafted if Thoms didn't select him 20th overall. (He wasn't even
>listed in the NBA "Official" Draft Guide).
>
>
>> Key Possible Move: Jermaine O'Neal. Potential: Unlikely.
>
>I agree here, and even further I hope it does not happen. While he'd
>be an upgrade over Magloire. The fact that it would take a kings
>ransom to trade for (including Jefferson AND Krsti ) for an injury
>prone player who complains...alot is too much. The Nets already have
>Kidd for that role, and all he cost was Marbury.
>
>I'll agree with the most part about the Atlantic Division. Toronto is
>still a good team, and it will come down to Boston's health if the
>stand alone. Remember they dropped like flies last season. If that
>were to happen this season they have no one left to compete.
>
>NJ falls or stands with Jefferson, Carter, Kidd, the exact same way
>they did with Kidd, Jefferson, Martin. They have always lacked a
>competent big man in the middle. While I do not like Magloire. He'll
>do in a pinch.
>
>Grimm-RHD