SFC: Warriors make big offer to Brand, sources say

Unless I'm forgetting something I'm thinking that Janny Hu forgot
about the possibility of the Clips NOT renouncing Brand and signing
him first using his Bird rights, in which case they could add a 6th
year as long as the first year's salary was low enough to leave enough
cap space for Baron's 5/$65m. -AL

================================================== =====

SFGate
Warriors make big offer to Brand, sources say
Janny Hu, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, July 3, 2008
..

(07-02) 21:34 PDT -- The Clippers lured away the Warriors' best
player.

Now Golden State is hoping to return the favor.

Flush with cap space after Baron Davis' sudden exit, the Warriors have
offered free-agent Elton Brand a five-year deal worth $90 million,
according to multiple league sources.

Brand, like Davis, opted out of the final year of his contract just
before Monday's deadline, giving up a guaranteed $16.4 million for
next season. At the time, Brand's agent, David Falk, told reporters
that the move was designed to create cap flexibility for the Clippers
to add another top-line player.

The Clippers did just that by agreeing to terms with Davis on a five-
year contract worth about $65 million Tuesday. But in order to fit
Davis under the salary cap at that number, the Clippers first must
renounce their rights to Brand and Corey Maggette, who also opted of
his deal Monday.

The most the Clippers could offer Brand is a five-year contract worth
about $75 million - or roughly $15 million less than the Warriors'
proposal.

Golden State is hoping the difference is enough to steer Brand to
Oakland, as a healthy Brand would seem to give the Warriors the power
forward they've been seeking for years.

Brand, 29, missed almost all of last season after blowing out his
Achilles tendon during a summer workout. He owns career averages of
20.3 points and 10.2 rebounds.

Brand met with his agent on the East Coast on Wednesday and was
expecting the Sixers to enter the bidding, a source said.

While the Warriors await Brand's next move, the team began negotiating
with representatives for Monta Ellis, with talks scheduled to continue
in Oakland today.

Ellis is believed to be seeking a long-term deal averaging well over
$10 million a season, and could have the leverage he needs if Brand
joins Davis in spurning the Warriors.

The pressure then would be on the Warriors to build around Ellis. And
if he thinks that Golden State is low-balling him or being
uncooperative in a sign-and-trade, Ellis could choose to come back on
his one-year tender worth $1 million.

That would make him an unrestricted free agent next summer, when the
Warriors risk losing him for nothing. The same scenario applies to
center Andris Biedrins, whose qualifying offer is worth $3.6 million
next season.

E-mail Janny Hu at [email]jhu@sfchronicle.com[/email].

[url]http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/03/SPRN11IP2K.DTL[/url]

This article appeared on page D - 2 of the San Francisco Chronicle

"Allen" <lonewolfbear@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:de6308d8-e962-4238-8f86-6d10fe3eb980@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Unless I'm forgetting something I'm thinking that Janny Hu forgot
> about the possibility of the Clips NOT renouncing Brand and signing
> him first using his Bird rights, in which case they could add a 6th
> year as long as the first year's salary was low enough to leave enough
> cap space for Baron's 5/$65m. -AL
>
> ================================================== =====
>
> SFGate
> Warriors make big offer to Brand, sources say
> Janny Hu, Chronicle Staff Writer
> Thursday, July 3, 2008
> .

>
> While the Warriors await Brand's next move, the team began negotiating
> with representatives for Monta Ellis, with talks scheduled to continue
> in Oakland today.
>
> Ellis is believed to be seeking a long-term deal averaging well over
> $10 million a season, and could have the leverage he needs if Brand
> joins Davis in spurning the Warriors.
>
> The pressure then would be on the Warriors to build around Ellis. And
> if he thinks that Golden State is low-balling him or being
> uncooperative in a sign-and-trade, Ellis could choose to come back on
> his one-year tender worth $1 million.
>
> That would make him an unrestricted free agent next summer, when the
> Warriors risk losing him for nothing. The same scenario applies to
> center Andris Biedrins, whose qualifying offer is worth $3.6 million
> next season.


Is Ellis really worth "well over" $10M a year? Is he even worth more than
$10M a year? He's a one-dimentional player who lacks a position and, for
some reason, can not defend.

The problem with both Ellis and Biedrins is that they're limited players.
They do some things well, but not the full range of things you need in a
player to build a team around.

I was thinking yesterday how the Warriors keep losing talented players. I
think one problem for a bad team is that good players think they're better
than they actually are, because the surrounding talent level is lower. This
leads them to expect more money than they are worth. Unfortunately, there is
almost always at least one GM who also thinks the player is better than he
is, so the player ends up getting what he wants, but from another team. And
so the talent drain continues...

--Robin

In article <dz7bk.14$Al2.5@newsfe02.lga>,
"Robin Miller" <Not_My@Real_Address.com> wrote:

> Is Ellis really worth "well over" $10M a year? Is he even worth more than
> $10M a year? He's a one-dimentional player who lacks a position and, for
> some reason, can not defend.
>
> The problem with both Ellis and Biedrins is that they're limited players.
> They do some things well, but not the full range of things you need in a
> player to build a team around.
>
> I was thinking yesterday how the Warriors keep losing talented players. I
> think one problem for a bad team is that good players think they're better
> than they actually are, because the surrounding talent level is lower. This
> leads them to expect more money than they are worth. Unfortunately, there is
> almost always at least one GM who also thinks the player is better than he
> is, so the player ends up getting what he wants, but from another team. And
> so the talent drain continues...

Yeah I wouldn't give him $10 million a year.

What is the average annual salaries of All-Stars?

Or players who average around the same number of points as he does?

Scoring in Nelson's offense is exaggerated. I guess Monta's value
ultimately depends on the market. If other players averaging 18 points
or whatever Monta averaged last year are getting that kind of money,
then I guess some other team will offer him that.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:58:51 -0500, "Robin Miller"
<Not_My@Real_Address.com> wrote:

>Is Ellis really worth "well over" $10M a year? Is he even worth more than
>$10M a year? He's a one-dimentional player who lacks a position and, for
>some reason, can not defend.

The only reason he struggles defensively is he lacks the will to try.
Athletically, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to defend.

>The problem with both Ellis and Biedrins is that they're limited players.
>They do some things well, but not the full range of things you need in a
>player to build a team around.

Which is why you want to pay them, but not overpay them.
--
Greg Lentz

"Greg Lentz" <nodamnspam@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:d9jq64512t034nl0d6japu17j23m71m9fm@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:58:51 -0500, "Robin Miller"
> <Not_My@Real_Address.com> wrote:
>
>>Is Ellis really worth "well over" $10M a year? Is he even worth more than
>>$10M a year? He's a one-dimentional player who lacks a position and, for
>>some reason, can not defend.
>
> The only reason he struggles defensively is he lacks the will to try.
> Athletically, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to defend.


That's what I meant. He has the physical capabilities to play much better
defense than he actually does. It's curious why he doesn't try harder.

--Robin

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:17:32 -0500, "Robin Miller"
<Not_My@Real_Address.com> wrote:

>
>"Greg Lentz" <nodamnspam@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
>news:d9jq64512t034nl0d6japu17j23m71m9fm@4ax.com.. .
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:58:51 -0500, "Robin Miller"
>> <Not_My@Real_Address.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Is Ellis really worth "well over" $10M a year? Is he even worth more than
>>>$10M a year? He's a one-dimentional player who lacks a position and, for
>>>some reason, can not defend.
>>
>> The only reason he struggles defensively is he lacks the will to try.
>> Athletically, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to defend.
>
>
>That's what I meant. He has the physical capabilities to play much better
>defense than he actually does. It's curious why he doesn't try harder.

NBA is filled with athletic marvels who don't care about defense.
--
Greg Lentz

In article <9imq64l1i0jo7jajmg0qjvjduq138dmq6o@4ax.com>,
Greg Lentz <nodamnspam@speakeasy.net> wrote:

> >>
> >> The only reason he struggles defensively is he lacks the will to try.
> >> Athletically, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to defend.
> >
> >
> >That's what I meant. He has the physical capabilities to play much better
> >defense than he actually does. It's curious why he doesn't try harder.
>
> NBA is filled with athletic marvels who don't care about defense.

In his rookie year, he did play some defense. Remember one game where
he was cutting off Parker repeatedly.

But maybe as he focused more on scoring, he's taking breaks on the other
end. Could be Nelson told him to save his energy for one end of the
floor.

Especially when it's so easy to pick up cheap ticky tack fouls while
trying to be overaggressive on defense.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:45:53 -0700, poldy <poldy@kfu.com> wrote:

>In article <9imq64l1i0jo7jajmg0qjvjduq138dmq6o@4ax.com>,
> Greg Lentz <nodamnspam@speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
>> >>
>> >> The only reason he struggles defensively is he lacks the will to try.
>> >> Athletically, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to defend.
>> >
>> >
>> >That's what I meant. He has the physical capabilities to play much better
>> >defense than he actually does. It's curious why he doesn't try harder.
>>
>> NBA is filled with athletic marvels who don't care about defense.
>
>In his rookie year, he did play some defense. Remember one game where
>he was cutting off Parker repeatedly.

I don't remember that game, but I do remember him working hard on Kobe one
game.

>But maybe as he focused more on scoring, he's taking breaks on the other
>end. Could be Nelson told him to save his energy for one end of the
>floor.

I don't think Nellie told him to run to wrong spots on the floor (which he
did a lot of). His defense just got worse this last year because he
didn't work at it.
--
Greg Lentz