Pitching Paps in the ninth

Did he do it because he's desperate for a win? (If game 2 of the TB
series had been game 3, I have to believe Bucholz would have been
lifted when he let the tying run on base)

Or because Paps is WELL rested?

Maybe a little of both.

This is exactly what I was advocating against the Rays. The "reverse
pyramid." Use your talent early, stay alive. Don't use your mediocre
pitchers until you have no choice. Oki was warming up, which tells me
that is what Francona was thinking...this time.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:12:28 -0500, "Magnus, Robot Fighter"
<Me@Key.com> wrote:

>
>Did he do it because he's desperate for a win? (If game 2 of the TB
>series had been game 3, I have to believe Bucholz would have been
>lifted when he let the tying run on base)
>
>Or because Paps is WELL rested?
>
>Maybe a little of both.

A combination of factors. Biggest probably is that the bullpen wasn't
short. Second, it's at home.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
<yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote:

>This is exactly what I was advocating against the Rays. The "reverse
>pyramid." Use your talent early, stay alive. Don't use your mediocre
>pitchers until you have no choice. Oki was warming up, which tells me
>that is what Francona was thinking...this time.

It's much easier when you have more pitchers available to pitch.

On Apr 29, 8:29 pm, Gary <golfera...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
>
> <yank_ees_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >This is exactly what I was advocating against the Rays. The "reverse
> >pyramid." Use your talent early, stay alive. Don't use your mediocre
> >pitchers until you have no choice. Oki was warming up, which tells me
> >that is what Francona was thinking...this time.
>
> It's much easier when you have more pitchers available to pitch.

They were available in the other game too.

"Throws like Mary" <yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:349d66fb-77cf-4340-97d1-b3da6aff9e5c@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 29, 8:29 pm, Gary <golfera...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
>>
>> <yank_ees_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >This is exactly what I was advocating against the Rays. The "reverse
>> >pyramid." Use your talent early, stay alive. Don't use your mediocre
>> >pitchers until you have no choice. Oki was warming up, which tells me
>> >that is what Francona was thinking...this time.
>>
>> It's much easier when you have more pitchers available to pitch.
>
> They were available in the other game too.
>

but they would have been spent the next night, just playing devil's advocate
here since I actually agree that Paps should have been in there.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
<yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote:

>This is exactly what I was advocating against the Rays. The "reverse
>pyramid." Use your talent early, stay alive. Don't use your mediocre
>pitchers until you have no choice. Oki was warming up, which tells me
>that is what Francona was thinking...this time.

I explained in a response to the various claims that Terry was wrong
not to use Paps against the Ray that there were good arguments not to
use him in that situation and that no single rule is correct. Still,
in general, it is not a good move to use the closer in the 9th on the
road. Remy noted that more managers are using the closer in a tie at
home. The logic you gave for using the closer against the Rays is
correct, but not for that case. It is correct for the home team.

It is not a highly leveraged situation to use the closer when you have
only a 40% or whatever chance to win (the case, on the road, when your
team has failed to score in the top of the 9th, so the home team gets
two innings to score to your one inning to score). Not an absolute,
but in general, you use the ace reliever when you have a good chance
to win, not when the other team will have two innings of ABs to your
one (just as you generally would not ue the closer when you were down
by 2+ runs).

"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:73qf14djvjcdkohrgbgfu66h31gnskc467@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
> <yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>This is exactly what I was advocating against the Rays. The "reverse
>>pyramid." Use your talent early, stay alive. Don't use your mediocre
>>pitchers until you have no choice. Oki was warming up, which tells me
>>that is what Francona was thinking...this time.
>
> I explained in a response to the various claims that Terry was wrong
> not to use Paps against the Ray that there were good arguments not to
> use him in that situation and that no single rule is correct. Still,
> in general, it is not a good move to use the closer in the 9th on the
> road. Remy noted that more managers are using the closer in a tie at
> home. The logic you gave for using the closer against the Rays is
> correct, but not for that case. It is correct for the home team.
>
> It is not a highly leveraged situation to use the closer when you have
> only a 40% or whatever chance to win (the case, on the road, when your
> team has failed to score in the top of the 9th, so the home team gets
> two innings to score to your one inning to score). Not an absolute,
> but in general, you use the ace reliever when you have a good chance
> to win, not when the other team will have two innings of ABs to your
> one (just as you generally would not ue the closer when you were down
> by 2+ runs).

I have to wrap my mind around that. I see it as do or die on the road since
you don't get last licks.

"Magnus, Robot Fighter" <Me@Key.com> wrote in message
news:u5lf14l9mfigmph9u5qdeadsari47rp1sh@4ax.com...
>
> Did he do it because he's desperate for a win? (If game 2 of the TB
> series had been game 3, I have to believe Bucholz would have been
> lifted when he let the tying run on base)
>
> Or because Paps is WELL rested?
>
> Maybe a little of both.



its because its at home. on the road oki would have come in.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:42:58 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
<yank_ees_suck@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 29, 8:29 pm, Gary <golfera...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Throws like Mary
>>
>> <yank_ees_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >This is exactly what I was advocating against the Rays. The "reverse
>> >pyramid." Use your talent early, stay alive. Don't use your mediocre
>> >pitchers until you have no choice. Oki was warming up, which tells me
>> >that is what Francona was thinking...this time.
>>
>> It's much easier when you have more pitchers available to pitch.
>
>They were available in the other game too.

I don't believe Oki and Delcarman were available to pitch last Friday
night.